Topic: This message was too old and has been purged - page 6. (Read 26129 times)

Applies to any anon coin.  You think monero is any different?  Tell me how monero provides anonymity for my personal information when I have to provide it for shipping.  Show me how monero provides protections for face to face transactions.  How does monero protect my browser traffic?  It doesn't do any of that nor does any other coin.  That's the point.  So why do your monero shills constantly deflect and muddy the water with all of these different situations?

Focus on the purpose of this thread.  Prove the transactions themselves are traceable.

i really like that comparison.... stealing a car is dangerous and you may get caught.

fits perfectly to masternodes

From A to Z please...after 16 rounds

for funs sake: a drkler needs to steal mutliple cars before he even can go out

Scratch that. Still not anonymous enough.  Even if you are wearing a mask you better be driving a stolen car so it cant be tracked back to you.  Make sure you do 4 loops around a city block (personal ring signatures and 1 more than required by XMR) while ditching the stolen car for a new one and making sure no one is following you.  At this point, if you don't suspect someone is following you, proceed to your real car and then do 4 more personal ring signatures.  After these steps are successfully taken, proceed home.  

For an added layer of security, make sure one of the cars you ditch is in a tunnel or under a bridge so the drones and spy satellites can't watch you.  Make sure you have a pair of gloves on too so you don't leave finger prints inside those stolen cars.

Totally.
It’s significant to this debate that Darkcoin had ring signatures on its roadmap and decided against implementing them (for now) because of adverse practical issues associated with their use - in particular the bloat problem.

Cryptonote fanatics (In particular, Monero devs) have their heads stuck so far down the cryptography manhole that they’ve lost sight of all monetary objectives other than “hiding from the NSA”, which isn’t even a monetary objective. A bit like a formula 1 car designer that becomes so obsessed with the tyre tread that they forget to make the car light and get lapped in the first round (as Monero has been by Darkcoin).

We’re talking about money here. The goal is to address a particular monetary property - fungibility, the only property in which Bitcoin is deficient - as well as financial privacy and to do that at least as well as the current fiat banking system (which is not the least bit opaque as far as NSA et al are concerned).

At this moment, Darkcoin’s implementation of anonymity suits a cryptocurrency far better than cryptonote does because it supports all immediate commercial design objectives and leaves options open for the future. In addition to that, it supports the oldest boost to reliability known to man - multiple redundancy. If you want commercial privacy, use a standard number of rounds. If you want super anonymity just put it through the full 16 rounds.

Contrary to what highly conflicted Monero coin developers would have you believe, useful modern cryptography was not invented 4 years ago, it was invented about 70 years ago and a myriad of successful implementations of every conceivable type have been in use ever since. More specific monetary-oriented cryptographic algorithms came along in the eighties so even those have been around for 30 years. Also contrary to what conflicted Monero devs would have you believe, there is more than 1 solution that satisfies the design objectives of a bitcoin-based currency which addresses the fungibility and privacy issue. Success will not go to the solution that has the most modern cryptography - or even the most secure - but the one that best addresses all of the priorities across the board.

For me, that is Darkcoin by a mile right now.

Whatever amounts of sand get thrown in its devs’ and its community’s face over hypothetical security scenarios it still has way more forethought and relevance across the whole offering. In addition, having read all of the challenges in this thread I think its security model is well in excess of what’s needed for the role it has to fulfil. A far more realistic weakness than ‘NSA tracing your transactions’ for example is simply some 3rd party buying up the coin supply and that’s something that applies to all coins / mining power / you name it.

Cryptographic priorities aren’t the  biggest issue here - monetary ones are. So before deciding what’s the optimal design cryptographically you need to decide what’s the optimal one monetarily and how much difference a legacy compliant blockchain makes because everything else flows from there.

What's it Worth ?
Monero staff have made a clusterfuck of a PR job for their coin in this thread by attacking Darkcoin’s anonymity approach because it’s a straw man. The real question is not Darkcoin’s anonymity approach, it’s its legacy compliance approach and how much that’s worth. A year ago that wasn’t clear but now it’s crystal clear - Bitcoin’s marketcap has continued to prevail over all alts. Darkcoin’s cap was sustained, Monero’s tanked. None of the alts have made a dent in Bitcoin’s cap despite being more advanced technically. So legacy compliance IS worth something big according to the market and in that regard it will accept the optimal anonymity solution if it wants a high-privacy version of it.

So critics can keep on pulling on that (it’s not secure !!) chain - it won’t matter because Darkcoin has the right solution for what it’s trying to do at the moment and it’s only likely to consolidate from here according to the conclusions of last year’s alt-coin arms race.

He isn't asking you to track his web traffic so why are you asking him to track yours?  Why is it not possible for you guys to directly answer a question or take a challenge?  He's asking you to track coins sent from one address to another.  Who the fuck cares about the rest of your net traffic.  Break the anonymous transaction.  

Stop deflecting and muddying the water. Track the transaction.  "... put up or shut up. That means "show and demonstrate" how Darkcoin is not anonymous."


You people realize that when you make a purchase with your anon coins, if you are buying something that has to be shipped, which would be most of your online purchases, they have your fucking address!  Unless you are doing face to face transactions with no personal information exchanged AND you are wearing a mask while doing it, you're not going to be anonymous.....  There's a whole host of potential what if's and hypothetical situations that can be dreamed up and thrown around.  That's not what this thread was about.  Prove the transactions themselves are traceable or shut the fuck up.

We are speaking of an open source technology here. Not a private banking system, stupid man.

lol the only thing you just proved is that you cant read (but what did i expect from drk-folks )

So let see the empty speah of smooth :

He's saying that if someone don't know something (ie: visa, mastercard payment) he can't say if it's anonymous or what else...
Ok so this guy is saying that he don't know darksend because he can say anything about it, nor prooves nothing

Cqfd! End of the discution until you make your homework

Ok so that all what we were thinking about those endless empty blatering of this smooth : He don't know what is it talking about (and since 14 pages)...

In the first sentence you say, if I would understand how Darksend works, I wouldn't see a risk in trusting masternodes to anonymise my transactions, but in your second line you talk about a tiny risk potential. That seems contradictory to me.

I don't say that DRK isn't anonymous, I am just saying that it's not the best possible way to be anonymous at this point in time.
 

If you believe that your are risking privacy by trusting masternodes to anonymise your transactions then you do not know how Darksend works.

Even if one entry controls 50% of all masternodes, the chance of tracing one transaction is tiny.

Prove your theories or they just fall into the category of ill-informed chit chat.

You can't make someone see, if he is not willing to.

I can understand your concerns, smooth, and there are IMO valid.
But you are trying to hard to get them to understand what consequences an "anonymous" design based on trust can have. It's their choice to either think about it or ignore it.  You have made your point clear and anyone who wan't to research the matter will come to their own conclusions

Please, for your own well being, let them believe what they want.

My conclusion:  trusting a third party with my anonymity is not the best way to be anonymous..

Fixed it for you. Over and out.

OK then, I'll be happy to, just as soon as you demonstrate how you can track my web browsing the way google, etc. do.

OR, alternatively, you could claim that because YOU, personally, can't track my web browsing, it must be private and anonymous.

Which is it?

I'll assume neither, but certainly correct me if I'm wrong.

To that end here's my new "product" -- Smooth's Unbreakable Anonymous Web Browsing (who needs Tor?)

Step 1: Wave your hands over your computer and think positive thoughts.

Step 2: Say a prayer to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that your browsing today remains private.

Now, here's the good part. If you think my product doesn't work go ahead and put up or shut up: Deanonymize my browsing!

Can't do it? I guess my product must be good after all. I should start selling it to suckers right?

Reality check dude. If you are disclosing information to third parties (which dark does), and it isn't protected by strong and well-vetted cryptography (which dark does not), it isn't secure.

THE ABOVE IS A FALLACY, AND A PARTICULARLY STUPID ONE.

I can't track you on the web and record and correlate nearly every web site you visit they way Google, Facebook, your ISP, the NSA, and hundreds of little companies nobody has heard of in the internet tracking and data brokering business can and do. Nor can I track every electronic financial transaction you make the way Visa, MC, banks, the NSA, IRS, etc. can and do.

That doesn't make these systems private and anonymous just because they aren't wide open to some random idiot.

Likewise, DRK's architecture for "anonymity" is a flimsy house of cards that provides only an illusion of anonymity whether or not I personally can unravel a conjoin transaction or two.

I've read through this thread.

Good grief! What a tedious, boring, pedantic and ridiculously unnecessary waste of time!

"Smooth" and others who just want to rubbish Darkcoin and bring never ending suggestions to the table of it being terribly flawed, UNTIL you have broken the anonymity and can demonstrate how it can be done and shown a repeatable process, your words and innuendo of Darkcoin being susceptible to all these issues are just words and innuendo, nothing more (but certainly copious quantities of).

Frankly you need to put up or SHUT THE F%^* UP!!!

What an incredibly verbose, long winded and torturous series of posts smooth!

Can you like just put a sock in it ffs?!!

WHEN you've proven Darkcoin has these fatal flaws and WHEN you've demonstrated how to repeatably break the anonymity THEN you have something important to say and people from the Darkcoin community will be very interested and thankful to you.

But at the moment you're just peddling conjecture, rubbish, absurdity and pontifications (let's see Conjecture, Rubbish, Absurdity and Pontifications....CRAP!....yep, you're just peddling CRAP!)

PS - And pleeaassseee! For the sanity of all of us, don't come back with yet another long winded rebutal and pontification about how what I'm saying is not addressing what you're saying blah blah (OMG, I think I need to watch the 10 hour "tra la la la lah" Youtube guy) blah. GO AND "BREAK" DARKCOIN'S ANONYMITY THEN COME BACK TO US.

If you think this debunks my statement of fact your reading comprehension is non-existent.




Once again, a fanboi who cannot find an answer to this question so tries to divert. Your attempts are shallow and in-effective. Care to try again?


Damn and I fell into the pit I was wondering about how others could get mired in.

But for the fire yes it is possible (and JUST the fire...) lol

You are right Noir... XMR suporter are really pathetics. (can you read the title of the thread?)