Topic: titan bitcoin - page 7. (Read 17826 times)

I apologize if I wasn't clear above.

Our investigation did not "fail to turn up the fact that this coin was marked "unfunded"".  I noticed that fact immediately and left it as is so as not to edit the DB alteration logs in case that was evidence of tampering.

The process differs for 2FA coins, vs. private key coins.  

For 2FA coins, we fund an address that is in cold storage when the coin is purchased.  That address is associated with the coin before we ship it.  Then when the buyer registers it, the information on that address becomes available to them.

For private key coins, we actually wait until the buyer confirms safe delivery before making the transaction on the blockchain.  Typically this blockchain transaction coincides with the DB update (within a few minutes of each other).

Whether or not I get paid 1 btc for this sealed coin now seems to rely on a security investigation of a server that Tim says he manually updates, and has now admitted that he has made an error on regarding my specific coin. Over the last 4 weeks, his security investigation apparently failed to turn up the fact that this coin was marked "unfunded", which a casual observer discovered in 10 minutes.

Or him personally serving some sort of police investigation down on one of his users, or a whole group who may have ever had any contact with this coin.

See why I am upset now guys?

Wait, are you moving the subject to a coin on ebay, or the coin you have.

Your coin is redeemed.
The one on ebay is possibly one of those that are in limbo.  Meaning, the person bought it from Titan, and is trying to sell it as unfunded before information Titan that he received it yet / or even claiming it was lost.  No way for Titan to know if the person is waiting or planing to say he didn't get it.

IE.  I write you a check.   You don't have to cash it, but it is a good check.  You could try to sell it (someone could check that the check is valid and if funds exist to cover the funds), then then simply tell me you lost the check.

I'm not above admitting I've made a mistake, and paying for it accordingly, but this issue is one concerning the security of Titan Bitcoins.  

It matters to every Titan Bitcoin owner that I, and anyone working for me, follow a strict process and protocol in dealing with these coins.  

As I've said to Todamont, and as I've said to every owner of a Titan Bitcoin, I will reimburse 110% of any value lost because of a problem with our system.  

I currently don't believe that a fault in our system caused Todamont's loss, but we're still continuing to investigate the claim.  To "split the loss" or "pay you off" would implicate that Titan bears some guilt in this case, or that we're trying to cover something up.  

We've yet to determine that Titan bears the fault in this issue, but rest assured that we take every customer service issue very seriously, regardless of whether a coin was purchased directly from us or not.  Bringing this issue to the public forum doesn't change the process we use to ensure that value on our coins remains secure.  

If the loss was indeed the result of a theft and, outside of our system (which seems to be the most likely scenario at this point), I'll gladly support Todamont in their efforts filing a police report.  That's not a part of our terms of use agreement, that's just ME hating to see people taken advantage of and wanting to help.

The mistake never had shown the coin as funded.  So, it's not (at this point) a mistake which cost you any BTC.  The mistake seems that you purchased a coin from a theif without having checked if the coin was valid or not.   Had it said 'FUNDED' and you purchased it, then I would expect you to have been paid.

I think not (currently), based on the above.

No he said the coin I have is redeemed, not the one on that page... That one is still apparently a "schroedinger coin". That's possible with Titan btc physical coins, I guess.

He said it was redeemed.  I guess the address could be made public if you have it.  If the original email address person doesn't reply, then you know who your thief is.   Also, I believe Titan said they were trying to get in touch with that person.


He answered this as well, having said, sellers could buy from Titan, post to sell on ebay (legitimately as unfunded), and once sold/ship, then enter the confirmation code with Titan to then be funded.


He answer this too, having said it was redeemed.  He did say there are a couple dozen 'lost' coins and they keep records on those.   I would like to see a stats page myself.  

"We will certainly make him 110% whole if the problem lies somewhere in our system."

"I made a mistake when updating the Database"

Ok. So... Can I get my 1 btc or what?

No, what he said is that he is supposed to update the DB manually when 'private key' coins are received.  With 2FA coins, it is automatic when the user clicks the confirmation link in the email.

Issue, you purchased a 2FA coin, not a private key coin as you thought.


When the user/theif requested the 2FA information to get the other half of the private key, Titan did not update the DB to show Redeemed.  He said it must have been his mistake, but did NOT feel like updating the DB because of the ongoing issue with you.  This shows me that he isn't trying to hide the issue as he could have done it at anytime during your 30+ email thread.

Can you comment on what the "state" is for this coin, which you certified as funded, but appears "unfunded" on your site?

ebay.com/itm/TITAN-ONE-BIT-COIN-UNFUNDED-HOLOGRAM-RARE-COLECTOR-COIN-NOT-CASACIUS-LEALANA-BTC-/111849058989?hash=item1a0ab932ad:g:l7QAAOSwrklVYzfE

Is that coin unfunded, funded, or already redeemed? What percentage of the coins in your database appear as "unfunded"? How many are actually funded? How many are redeemed? Have coins in you database ever been manually changed from the funded or redeemed to the unfunded state? What is your security policy regarding these manual database updates and bitcoin-funding process?

"When they've clicked a confirmation link that arrives in their email, that page state changes to show that the coin is funded."

Can you explain this to me further? At what point does the bitcoin actually get sent to the address? Not at the same time the database is updated to record that the coin has been funded?

Tim you are now claiming that you have altered your database manually to support your side of the story.

I'm going to have to say, you are now changing your story. I feel like this indicates error on your side and I feel that you should make good on this coin now.

[edit] I see that actually, what you meant is that you forgot to edit the database manually to support your side of the story. lol. Why won't you just put this to bed and split the loss with me?

Our coins have a few different page "states" which may show up when you go to verify its value on our website.  "Not-yet-funded", "Funded" and "Redeemed".  The funded page state is different for 2FA coins vs. Private key coins, as well.  

When the coins are shipped, that "Not-yet-funded" page state will be visible until the user verifies that they have received the shipment.  With 2FA coins, the user enters in a confirmation number from their packing slip and the email address and password they want to register the coin to.  When they've clicked a confirmation link that arrives in their email, that page state changes to show that the coin is funded.  With private key coins, the buyer emails us to confirm safe delivery and we change that state in the DB manually.

At that point, the coins will show as "Funded" until a redemption request has been made.

Coins may show as "not yet funded" in a few scenarios.

1.  A reseller on ebay is trying to dodge eBay rules against selling bitcoins.  As such, they are waiting to do the initial coin registration until they have resold the coin.  It is being advertised EXPLICITLY as unfunded so that eBay does not kill the auction.  A buyer would really need to trust the seller if they were to purchase this type of coin because of option 2...

2. A coin may have been "lost" in transit.  This has happened many times where a buyer claims that the package didn't arrive.  We don't dispute those claims.  We just send out a replacement shipment.  Every coin is unique, so the replacement has a unique coin ID from the one that was originally sent out.  If a buyer continues to claim that they aren't receiving their orders after multiple attempts (even if we have delivery confirmation from USPS) we simply refund their purchase and apologize.

3. I made a mistake when updating the Database field that dictate the page states.

Option #2 means that there coins out there that are intact but unfunded, and will never be funded because they were marked as "lost".  We do keep records of these coins, and there's about 2 dozen of them.

Todamont's coin was not one of these "lost" coins.  That would be easy for us to claim, but that's not the case here.  His coin was registered in 2013 and redeemed in 2014.  The page state for the coin in question should say "redeemed" and it does not.  This was likely scenario #3.  A mistake on my part in updating the flag that determines the page state, as the DB update was done by me manually.  Instead of correcting the "error", we've left it as is until we've been able to complete the vulnerability analysis on our servers.

I'm happy to explain further but it probably makes sense to answer specific questions at this point.

I don't want to file police reports against anyone in the chain of custody of ownership outside of Titan Btc. I will regard the coin as a total loss rather than go that route. I might, however, write an email to the DA about a guy name Tim who certifies physical bitcoins are funded, and then they show up as "unfunded" on his company website.

How do you explain that?

I'll address this general thread first, and then address the specific issue of coins showing as not yet funded in a separate reply.

Todamont is correct in the details that he has shared here, with the exception that I have not accused him of any wrong doing.  I expressly stated that I didn't mind that he take this conversation public, as we're not trying to hide anything about this situation. 

This was a coin that was not bought from Titan directly, and likely changed hands several times. It's likely, in my opinion, that the hologram was removed using a solvent (without breaking the security seal) and reapplied before being sold to Todamont by someone unscrupulous.  If Todamont has registered his email address to the coin when he purchased it, the value would have been protected, but it sounds like the seller also lied and told them it was a private key coin. 

This is the first case we've had of this specific type of claim.  We've been investigating all possible options for how this occurred.  Todamont and I have an email chain of probably 30 emails going back and forth discussing the situation.  We will certainly make him 110% whole if the problem lies somewhere in our system.  If his problem occurred because he purchased a Titan Bitcoin from a thief, we will assist in filing police reports as well.

I don't remember who I bought it from and I would not implicate them in the chain of ownership if I did. There may have been any number of owners between the original owner and myself, and it's not fair to throw any number of people under suspicion of theft or fraud over this unfunded/redeemed coin issue.

This unfunded coin sale on ebay is very, very unusual. Specifically the "certificate of authenticity" stating:

"At the time of sale, this coin was certified to be uniquely associated with an address which bears the amount and type of the cryptological currency stated on the coin's obverse."

Signed by Tim Fillmore

ebay.com/itm/TITAN-ONE-BIT-COIN-UNFUNDED-HOLOGRAM-RARE-COLECTOR-COIN-NOT-CASACIUS-LEALANA-BTC-/111849058989?hash=item1a0ab932ad:g:l7QAAOSwrklVYzfE

This really, really looks like some of the coins that Tim certified as funded were, in fact, not funded. I wonder what percentage of the coins they sold now show up as "unfunded".

I just noticed you basically said the same thing as I did while I was typing in my first response (with regards to possibly being coins lost in the mail).

I don't know if coins are reprinted; however, it would seem unlikely.  If they are, then anyone could claim lost and second a second copy to sell, then redeem, then scam.

What curious to me is that you didn't know the person who originally owned it as you said you received the email address from Titan.  Have you tried also going to the person you bought it from and/or emailed the original owner to clear it up?  If they are not responding, then also likely the scam was intentional as well.

Maybe you should also email Titan a link to the thread and ask them for a reply on the forum.  Make it fair in notifying them so they at least have a chance to reply/explain/defend.

This makes sense. But the confusion about this situation on the part of Titan Btc seems very unusual. They said they were in contact with the original owner and they didn't mention any "lost in the mail" situation. Would they then ship another coin with the same ID number, though, to someone else?

from Tim:

"this coin was redeemed quite a while ago"

ok, then... What?

Strange situation.

One thought is that coins go out unfunded and once the receiver tells Titan that they received the shipment, the coins are then funded.  I don't believe Titan specifically sold funded coins.
I can imagine people claiming they didn't receive the shipment in which case Titan reships another batch which then are received and funded.  The receiver then gets the first shipment and sells the coins intentionally scamming the person they sold them to (cough - or the post carrier or whomever found the lost shipment).