Topic: Total corruption in Russian local [DT involved!] - page 5. (Read 2683 times)

When hero member tema send merits only to abusers and Smart man its ok?
When I described in detail who sent merit, where, it is not specific data that are proof? I showed a lot of abusers who act on one pattern. This is specific data that is evidence of abuse.

Blanchrc40    3/25/2018 9:32:14 PM password changed    5/9/2019 8:34:21 AM   woke up
Hiring in bumping service he is listed on the Merit flow diagram above.

MrBoston        3/25/2018 9:48:00 PM password changed     5/14/2019 9:52:40 PM   woke up connected to the Merit flow diagram above

Fixxer767        3/25/2018 10:20:35 PM password changed   5/12/2019 1:30:10 AM   woke up

Jeronimo78        3/18/2018 4:13:10 PM password changed  5/9/2019 8:29:33 AM   woke up banned, connected to the Merit flow diagram above

pradobo  banned, he is listed on the Merit flow diagram above.

BlackAndBlack connected to the Merit flow diagram above

Alex6562 banned, connected to the Merit flow diagram above

etc.

This is not the standard behavior of shitposters to up someone else's thread with positive comments and impersonate customers.

3.)You do not need to do any research. Smart man himself writes that he worked with this project and that he learned that this project was scam. But he did not warn anyone about this.
Is this not complicity in crime?

4.)What is the name of hiring workers with multiple accounts for bumping a thread and providing this kind of service?
Evidence of these actions is in the first message.

My post was edited well before you made your post.


In the absence of concrete proof it is a co-incidence. It doesn't make it untrue. It makes it unproven.

There are serious issues with jumping to conclusions based on merit data. See for yourself:



In the absence of other proof it can lead to all sorts of false allegations.



This is common shitposter behavior. It is dealt with by reporting the post to the moderator and getting it deleted and if the user does it enough times they get banned.

Where is the proven link to Smart man ?
Without concrete proof it is a mere allegation. While some people may place feedback based on allegations. Most won't.



Unfortunately I have decided not to look into that actual allegation of whether that project is a scam because the thread is largely run by circle jerkers that have hijacked a number of threads and made a number of unsupported scam accusations against various projects. Any rational discussion in the thread automatically assumes that you promote what is probably a scam. So rational discussion of fact is near impossible. I am neither interested in being seen as a "promoter" of what is probably a scam nor getting brain cancer from arguing with idiots..

I have seen no proof that Smart man is the instigator of the scam rather than a misguided investor or  bounty manager.


Calling something a spam service is not evidence of spam. It is circular logic.

xtraelv

You have edited your post. I continue:
1.) In the first post, I showed “big” donors of merit for Smart man. Why are they all banned for plagiarism/another abuse and sent merits to users banned for plagiarism/another abuse? Can there be so many coincidences?
Here is another scheme of merit flow. Please note that most users are also banned for plagiarism. You can check it through BPIP.
Most of the users who wrote in the Smart man topic either is on this scheme or are directly connected with it. Again coincidences?



2.) Just check his topic.  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/white-paper-128293-2058283 Many examples 1 2 3 etc.
Note in the thread a lot of dialogs like:
- Wrote to you in PM.
-Thank you, answered, we will work.
-Good! I agree it.
- Fine, I'm waiting.
-I sent you new documentation.
-Got it, work.
Very funny, do real customers behave like this? 

3.) Please do it. It is very important.

4.) Ha ha. There is no evidence that the spam service produces spam? OK.

?

I answered each question.

Why didn't you answer simple questions? I have evidence on all counts.

If you prove a lot of thefts and show how the police protect the thieves, then obviously this will be proof of corruption.

I do not propose to "believe" my words - I show the facts. If you have doubts about these facts, I am ready to discuss them.

Smart man does not equal total corruption in Russian local [DT involved!]


If I write "Government conspiracy involving police and ministers" and then offer an alleged shoplifter as proof would you conclude there is a government conspiracy ?

Historically - most of the users that post about large scale conspiracies often turn out to be dubious themselves. So "evidence" is not just accepted as "trust me it is true".




Not proven.


No proof provided that false reviews were made.


I have not looked at this yet.


Probably. Not proven it is a spam service.

xtraelv

Let's look at the question by points:

1.) Smart man is involved in a huge circuit of merit abuse. Yes/No?
2.) Smart man has a lot of alts and with the help of them he deceives customers by making false reviews in his thread. Yes/No?
3.) Smart man is involved in the scam project Adab Solutions. Yes/No?
4.) Smart man was hiring in and offering Spam-service. Yes/No?

If you really carefully read the first post, then you should have noticed that I found a lot of abusers. Smart man was only the beginning of my research.
I came here because I found huge problems in Ru local that no one sees or tries to solve.

I have read your first post and even struggled through some of the Russian posts with my very poor Russian reading skills.

I see a lot of pointless data and other than having some questions about Smart man (not enough to make a judgement) I disagree with most of the inferences that you are making.

There are a number of people that often have good intentions that draw all sorts of ominous conclusions from assortments of data that do not prove anything.

Sometimes even the village idiot knows how to use Bing or google.

I have no doubt that you have poured over lots of information looking for evidence of systematic corruption. But giving merit for posts, receiving merit for posts, ranking up,  refusing to give a trust rating, having a different opinion, having an alt account or changing your password are all normal actions that are permitted under the current rules.

Instead I see lots of pointless data that does not prove any systematic corruption involving the Russian community or DTs.

The way that I view this is that the DTs feel there is not enough troubling information about Smart man to permanently ruin his trading reputation on bitcointalk. This may change if more information becomes available.

If it is not a systematic problem but just about user Smart man then it should simply be dealt with on the scam accusations board or reputation board rather than meta.

xtraelv
I like your approach - if you also carefully examine the first post, then you just will not have any questions.
And you will help the forum to get rid of fraudsters 

When someone posts serious allegations in Meta against people who have proven their trust in the past then their character and history becomes relevant when viewing the allegations.

In your accusation you claim that the DTs and merit source are corrupt. So your historical interaction with those people is of interest.

Archived

I call Craig a scamer   https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51280182

And i see you want to talk about me but not about scamers that i showed? Nice 

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51273724
archive

Looks like you have a bit of a dislike for chimk for calling you out for your Craig Wright support.

I think this is atmost whats wrong here, protecting a merit abuser and account farmer is not what looks trustworthy IMO.

I find it quite amusing seeing accounts that later get perma-banned getting merit.  All that effort to entice merits by those merit farmers foiled by the system that catches them and locks the account permanently. It shows that some systems are working well.

I also commend merit sources that give merit to new accounts (which are more likely to be farmed accounts) because it can be very hard for genuine newbies to get their first merit and get posting privileges.

The job of a merit source is to give merit to good quality posts. Not to detect them for plagiarism or make political judgments.

The job of the moderators and those reporting posts is to detect plagiarism and detect account farmers.

The job of DTs is to make judgements on the trustworthiness of users. This is subjective and different DTs have different criteria. People don't choose to be a DT. It is other users that select them. It is more of a curse with responsibility.

My opinion is based on facts. Do you want to challenge them?
Or do you think that when a user sends merit only to scammers (as a tema, hero member) does he act honestly?

If a person does not see the obvious facts and protects the scamers, then I called him blind or corrupt, it is so.

Trust is now much more decentralized. People will never see tags if they are not placed. You will never be in a position where your tags will be seen if you do not place them.

In your "analysis" you try to sully the names of those in a position to provide some assistance. It appears that when someone disagrees with your opinion you consider them "corrupt" or "blind".

In this post I showed problems that are easy to understand without even knowing the Russian language.
I show the problem of corruption, and you assume that the corrupt DTs themselves are able to solve the problems (with themselves)? Seriously?

I showed serious violations of the rules (merit abuse, creation of spam services and etc.) and they are still not punished - this is what I call corruption and that is why I am here.

If you read my post completely then you must understand the scale of the problem.
I do not want to play with cancer in the game and I see no reason to put tags that no one will even see.

The problem with chimik is not in merit, but in the fact that he is protecting a proven scamer (Smart man).
And chimik has an alt which is connected with a set of merit abusers.

No-one is disputing the facts. The issue is with the assumptions. Issues with the Russian local boards is best dealt with by Russian DTs on that board. There are numerous Russian DTs that I trust that are in a much better position to judge it than non native speakers.

Individual assessments are made. Not every slight or breaking of the rules will be punished.

It is clear that Theymos wants to reserve flag judgement to only the most prolific scammers. How trust is allocated is up to individual DT members.

Like Suchmoon said - you have made all these accusations but you haven't placed any trust yourself.  Why are you expecting others to do something you won't even do yourself ?




There is definitely an issue of many permabanned users getting merit.  I think the main issue is that plagiarism is hard to detect and often fools the reader into believing that it is a good quality post.

However there is no proof that it is part of a conspiracy or corruption. It could also mean that the moderators on the Russian board are doing a great job catching and banning plagiarists.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topsendban

Please check facts, it is not a theory.

I think you should re-go through the evidence posted in the OP. There are some solid evidence of Smart man abusing merits and running some shaddy business overall.

It looks pretty clear to me !