You made harm to people and you did it on purpose. Just so you haven't forgot: You lured people to trust you without telling them they will lose all their real valuable backed ripple bitcoins (if they had any) when they add the trust towards you. It's scamming.
Topic: TradeFortress VERY untrustworthy, owes me 10.15 BTC, possibly others. - page 2. (Read 11355 times)
August 07, 2013, 05:42:38 AM
August 07, 2013, 04:35:10 AM
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You would get banned if you went to newbies section and make a thread "send your bitcoins here [address], I will pay back double!". Then with your logic you could say, umm, "never said when I will pay back". Or something else that's clearly scamming or atleast very shady and untrustworthy stuff. Do we agree?
This is a red herring. I never did anything remotely similar to that.
The closet would be "Add trust for [address], I will send you 1 Ripple BTC". I do not profit in any way.
Also take a look at this thread, this is where the OP actually profits:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mastercoin-new-protocol-layer-starting-from-the-exodus-address-265488
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You very well knew there were bitstamp/snapswap backed ripple-BTCs around and they would lose them by trusting you.
That is correct, just as how when someone announces a new security vulnerability in SSL for example (http://breachattack.com/) they very well knew that it will lead to innocent people being MITM attacked. Eventually site owners will fix and new SSL versions will fix the vulnerability, same thing here - it's better for people to learn about why Ripple's debt model is flawed now rather than later.
August 07, 2013, 04:32:37 AM
You make not have actually lied at any point, but is clear that you intentionally mislead people in order to prove a point.
And as a result of that, people who trusted you have lost money.
Feeling good about that?
And as a result of that, people who trusted you have lost money.
Feeling good about that?
August 07, 2013, 04:27:23 AM
Well, even if you did make it clear it's a BTC debt issued by you, you still mislead people to think they would get something. They thought you would honor your debts which you don't do.
Long time members of this community are not supposed to mislead newbies, it's just wrong. You would get banned if you went to newbies section and make a thread "send your bitcoins here [address], I will pay back double!". Then with your logic you could say, umm, "never said when I will pay back". Or something else that's clearly scamming or atleast very shady and untrustworthy stuff. Do we agree?
You very well knew there were bitstamp/snapswap backed ripple-BTCs around and they would lose them by trusting you. They didn't/don't understand the Ripple system enough to know what trusting someone actually means. You lured them to this trap that can be read as untrustworthy behaviour at least.
Long time members of this community are not supposed to mislead newbies, it's just wrong. You would get banned if you went to newbies section and make a thread "send your bitcoins here [address], I will pay back double!". Then with your logic you could say, umm, "never said when I will pay back". Or something else that's clearly scamming or atleast very shady and untrustworthy stuff. Do we agree?
You very well knew there were bitstamp/snapswap backed ripple-BTCs around and they would lose them by trusting you. They didn't/don't understand the Ripple system enough to know what trusting someone actually means. You lured them to this trap that can be read as untrustworthy behaviour at least.
If I buy an apple and say I'll pay 0.05 BTC for it, and give them a piece of paper saying 0.05 BTC for it, I am a scammer. If I do a bet, I'm a scammer.
If I go "Free BTC!" and post a picture of a Bitcoin, I am not a scammer. If I give them a worthless Ripple BTC, I'm not a scammer.
Which part of this do you have problems comprehending?
Please read my previous post again and think about it. It's not about what you gave to them, it's about what it caused and what you told them and how.
August 07, 2013, 04:22:29 AM
Well, even if you did make it clear it's a BTC debt issued by you, you still mislead people to think they would get something. They thought you would honor your debts which you don't do.
Long time members of this community are not supposed to mislead newbies, it's just wrong. You would get banned if you went to newbies section and make a thread "send your bitcoins here [address], I will pay back double!". Then with your logic you could say, umm, "never said when I will pay back". Or something else that's clearly scamming or atleast very shady and untrustworthy stuff. Do we agree?
You very well knew there were bitstamp/snapswap backed ripple-BTCs around and they would lose them by trusting you. They didn't/don't understand the Ripple system enough to know what trusting someone actually means. You lured them to this trap that can be read as untrustworthy behaviour at least.
Long time members of this community are not supposed to mislead newbies, it's just wrong. You would get banned if you went to newbies section and make a thread "send your bitcoins here [address], I will pay back double!". Then with your logic you could say, umm, "never said when I will pay back". Or something else that's clearly scamming or atleast very shady and untrustworthy stuff. Do we agree?
You very well knew there were bitstamp/snapswap backed ripple-BTCs around and they would lose them by trusting you. They didn't/don't understand the Ripple system enough to know what trusting someone actually means. You lured them to this trap that can be read as untrustworthy behaviour at least.
If I buy an apple and say I'll pay 0.05 BTC for it, and give them a piece of paper saying 0.05 BTC for it, I am a scammer. If I do a bet, I'm a scammer.
If I go "Free BTC!" and post a picture of a Bitcoin, I am not a scammer. If I give them a worthless Ripple BTC, I'm not a scammer.
Which part of this do you have problems comprehending?
August 07, 2013, 04:19:06 AM
Well, even if you did make it clear it's a BTC debt issued by you, you still mislead people to think they would get something. They thought you would honor your debts which you don't do.
Long time members of this community are not supposed to mislead newbies, it's just wrong. You would get banned if you went to newbies section and make a thread "send your bitcoins here [address], I will pay back double!". Then with your logic you could say, umm, "never said when I will pay back". Or something else that's clearly scamming or atleast very shady and untrustworthy stuff. Do we agree?
You very well knew there were bitstamp/snapswap backed ripple-BTCs around and they would lose them by trusting you. They didn't/don't understand the Ripple system enough to know what trusting someone actually means. You lured them to this trap that can be read as untrustworthy behaviour at least.
It's not "pointing a flaw in Ripple system", it's taking advantage of people who don't understand trust system of ripple. Even though you didn't probably mean to do actual harm or get benefit (in form of real bitcoins), you 100% knew it would harm people who fell in this.
Long time members of this community are not supposed to mislead newbies, it's just wrong. You would get banned if you went to newbies section and make a thread "send your bitcoins here [address], I will pay back double!". Then with your logic you could say, umm, "never said when I will pay back". Or something else that's clearly scamming or atleast very shady and untrustworthy stuff. Do we agree?
You very well knew there were bitstamp/snapswap backed ripple-BTCs around and they would lose them by trusting you. They didn't/don't understand the Ripple system enough to know what trusting someone actually means. You lured them to this trap that can be read as untrustworthy behaviour at least.
It's not "pointing a flaw in Ripple system", it's taking advantage of people who don't understand trust system of ripple. Even though you didn't probably mean to do actual harm or get benefit (in form of real bitcoins), you 100% knew it would harm people who fell in this.
August 07, 2013, 04:10:11 AM
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I could write a piece of paper with "1 BTC" on it and it would have the same value.
That'd have significantly more value for the paper it was wrote on.
True, that.
August 07, 2013, 04:07:56 AM
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I could write a piece of paper with "1 BTC" on it and it would have the same value.
That'd have significantly more value for the paper it was wrote on.
August 07, 2013, 04:05:16 AM
Person A gives a loan to person B.
Person B gives a loan to person C.
Person C scams person B and doesn't pay the loan back.
Person B tells person A he won't pay back to person A because person C didn't pay person B back.
Is that how you do things in real life?
Nope, person B still has to pay back to person A even when person C scammed person B. If he doesn't person B is a scammer too.
Person B gives a loan to person C.
Person C scams person B and doesn't pay the loan back.
Person B tells person A he won't pay back to person A because person C didn't pay person B back.
Is that how you do things in real life?
Nope, person B still has to pay back to person A even when person C scammed person B. If he doesn't person B is a scammer too.
No. I already paid "person A" with BTC on Ripple. I've clearly advertised my threads as Ripple Bitcoins, Bitcoins on Ripple, etc.
They are debt, but they have no terms and cannot be redeemed. They're also sent for free.
This is equivalent to selling something like.. Pirate BTC and the buyer complaining when they can't redeem.
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Total of 11 BC sent. Thank you.
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You need to follow the steps before I can send you the BTC.
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Sent a bunch of BTCs.
Just a few quotes by you from https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/1-free-ripple-btc-giveaway-ended-see-op-over-455-btc-gaveaway-206948
Too bad I can't see the original first post because it's been edited and the topic is self moderated.
You mislead them purposely to think they would get something else than a DEBT issued by you.
In ripple, they were given 1 BTC. 1 Ripple BTC, which was clearly stated in the title. 1 Ripple BTC is a token worth nothing unless it is backed, I could write a piece of paper with "1 BTC" on it and it would have the same value.
August 07, 2013, 04:04:05 AM
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Total of 11 BC sent. Thank you.
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You need to follow the steps before I can send you the BTC.
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Sent a bunch of BTCs.
Just a few quotes by you from https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/1-free-ripple-btc-giveaway-ended-see-op-over-455-btc-gaveaway-206948
Too bad I can't see the original first post because it's been edited and the topic is self moderated.
You mislead them purposely to think they would get something else than a DEBT issued by you.
1 free Ripple BTC giveaway - just post address!
This is in the title. It is impossible to not read it before go to the topic.
August 07, 2013, 04:00:20 AM
Person A gives a loan to person B.
Person B gives a loan to person C.
Person C scams person B and doesn't pay the loan back.
Person B tells person A he won't pay back to person A because person C didn't pay person B back.
Is that how you do things in real life?
Nope, person B still has to pay back to person A even when person C scammed person B. If he doesn't person B is a scammer too.
Person B gives a loan to person C.
Person C scams person B and doesn't pay the loan back.
Person B tells person A he won't pay back to person A because person C didn't pay person B back.
Is that how you do things in real life?
Nope, person B still has to pay back to person A even when person C scammed person B. If he doesn't person B is a scammer too.
No. I already paid "person A" with BTC on Ripple. I've clearly advertised my threads as Ripple Bitcoins, Bitcoins on Ripple, etc.
They are debt, but they have no terms and cannot be redeemed. They're also sent for free.
This is equivalent to selling something like.. Pirate BTC and the buyer complaining when they can't redeem.
Quote
Total of 11 BC sent. Thank you.
Quote
You need to follow the steps before I can send you the BTC.
Quote
Sent a bunch of BTCs.
Just a few quotes by you from https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/1-free-ripple-btc-giveaway-ended-see-op-over-455-btc-gaveaway-206948
Too bad I can't see the original first post because it's been edited and the topic is self moderated.
You mislead them purposely to think they would get something else than a DEBT issued by you.
August 07, 2013, 03:53:09 AM
Person A gives a loan to person B.
Person B gives a loan to person C.
Person C scams person B and doesn't pay the loan back.
Person B tells person A he won't pay back to person A because person C didn't pay person B back.
Is that how you do things in real life?
Nope, person B still has to pay back to person A even when person C scammed person B. If he doesn't person B is a scammer too.
Person B gives a loan to person C.
Person C scams person B and doesn't pay the loan back.
Person B tells person A he won't pay back to person A because person C didn't pay person B back.
Is that how you do things in real life?
Nope, person B still has to pay back to person A even when person C scammed person B. If he doesn't person B is a scammer too.
No. I already paid "person A" with BTC on Ripple. I've clearly advertised my threads as Ripple Bitcoins, Bitcoins on Ripple, etc.
They are debt, but they have no terms and cannot be redeemed. They're also sent for free.
This is equivalent to selling something like.. Pirate BTC and the buyer complaining when they can't redeem.
August 07, 2013, 03:50:06 AM
Person A gives a loan to person B.
Person B gives a loan to person C.
Person C scams person B and doesn't pay the loan back.
Person B tells person A he won't pay back to person A because person C didn't pay person B back.
Is that how you do things in real life?
Nope, person B still has to pay back to person A even when person C scammed person B. If he doesn't, person B is a scammer too.
Person B gives a loan to person C.
Person C scams person B and doesn't pay the loan back.
Person B tells person A he won't pay back to person A because person C didn't pay person B back.
Is that how you do things in real life?
Nope, person B still has to pay back to person A even when person C scammed person B. If he doesn't, person B is a scammer too.
August 07, 2013, 03:48:33 AM
Trust in ripple means that you're willing to loan them that amount of funds. Trust in ripple doesn't equal to being friends.
But that's pointless as it is a contractless loan, or more accurately a gift. I'm loaning them a perpetual loan with no repayment date.
This is why trust and debt in Ripple are meaningless - there are no terms whatsoever. In fact Ripple makes no distinction of BTC, USD, EUR other than the 3 letters, and people will claim that they mean ByTeCoin instead of Bitcoin, etc.
August 07, 2013, 03:46:16 AM
So these people trusted you and you chose to trust someone too. The thing is, they trust you and you only, not the people you've chosen to trust.
This means you're the scammer if you don't pay your debts. If you loan money to someone and they don't pay you.. It doesn't give you the right to deny payback of debt to people who borrowed from you. You can't "transfer" loan. Do we agree?
This means you're the scammer if you don't pay your debts. If you loan money to someone and they don't pay you.. It doesn't give you the right to deny payback of debt to people who borrowed from you. You can't "transfer" loan. Do we agree?
No, this does not. If you friend someone on Facebook you don't go to jail if you are not buddies with them.
Trusting someone is not a binding contract, it does not mean anything. It is not scamming if you trust someone that you don't trust.
Trust in ripple means that you're willing to loan them that amount of funds. Trust in ripple doesn't equal to being friends.
August 07, 2013, 03:44:31 AM
So these people trusted you and you chose to trust someone too. The thing is, they trust you and you only, not the people you've chosen to trust.
This means you're the scammer if you don't pay your debts. If you loan money to someone and they don't pay you.. It doesn't give you the right to deny payback of debt to people who borrowed from you. You can't "transfer" loan. Do we agree?
This means you're the scammer if you don't pay your debts. If you loan money to someone and they don't pay you.. It doesn't give you the right to deny payback of debt to people who borrowed from you. You can't "transfer" loan. Do we agree?
No. If you friend someone on Facebook you don't go to jail if you are not buddies with them.
Trusting someone is not a binding contract, it does not mean anything. It is not scamming if you trust someone that you don't trust.
August 07, 2013, 03:42:51 AM
How is that relevant?
Just answer my question, please.
Just answer my question, please.
I trust anyone that asks for trust on Ripple. Are you going to say this is an "abuse"? Whatever.
So these people trusted you and you chose to trust someone too. The thing is, they trust you and you only, not the people you've chosen to trust.
This means you're the scammer if you don't pay your debts. If you loan money to someone and they don't pay you.. It doesn't give you the right to deny payback of debt to people who borrowed from you. You can't "transfer" loan. Do we agree?
August 07, 2013, 03:40:41 AM
The simple fact is that I did actions that enabled other unrelated people to take BTC using a flaw in Ripple. It is ripple's fault for having that debt model.
August 07, 2013, 03:39:46 AM
How is that relevant?
Just answer my question, please.
Just answer my question, please.
I trust anyone that asks for trust on Ripple. Are you going to say this is an "abuse"? Whatever.
August 07, 2013, 03:38:18 AM
Okay, so you trust all these "TRUSTED PARTIES". Then what happens if, say, Bitstamp ups and runs? (not that they will)
You lose your money.Exactly. Same happens to everyone that has money at MtGox if Gox runs. Isn't that very obvious? If you have money on your paypal account and paypal runs, you lose your money.
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