Topic: True or false: Ethereum is a bubble, bitcoin is not - page 3. (Read 3078 times)

There is second law of bubbles as well: the longer the bubble last the longer it will take to burst.
Why I meant is that I consider fiat money to be a bubble too. Considering that in the past every global currency reserve has fallen:

We just have to wait a bit more to see USD collapse as well.

It smells like it is time to get out and lock the profits. News has it that deposits and withdrawals of some ICO tokens were disabled by the exchanges because Ethereum's backlog is getting too large.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN19D200

   For example, civic- an ID verification service that uses its own token to... verify ID's.

   PLEASE can anyone explain to me why this can only work with ether, why a company would want to buy Civic's special token for ID verification, and have to manage seperate accounts or wallet? What am I missing?

     I guess I just have to keep saying it louder until somebody comes and walks me through it with baby steps

http://www.coindesk.com/analyzing-ether-bitcoin-investors-skeptical-take/

http://hackingdistributed.com/2017/06/19/bancor-is-flawed/

    I studied the global financial system so I fully understand bitcoins potential, and I also understand its utilities for a number of purposes.

   I read that a mutual fund manager got in early on ethereum, and anyone who can wield that kind of capital could probably engineer a pump and dump of this magnitude.

   My hunch is a lot of the ICOs are going to be unable to perform, and investors are going to get impatient, there will probably be a series of scams, and people are going to start realizing that they acted on emotion and put huge amounts of money into projects they didn't understand and start thinking "What if I got scammed too?"

   This will cause people to start dumping even legitimate tokens, which may cause a rush- ICO development will realize that if the value of their ETH is hit hard enough, they will not be able to afford to complete their project, and if this happens it will lead to some projects being cancelled which will just add to the general panic in a vicious cycle.

Hundreds of millions if not billions of ETH are tied up in ICOs, decreasing supply in a period of frantic demand, and this ether is going to start bleeding back on to the market, putting further pressure on the price  

    I have listened to Vitalik Butemin's talks, and I keep starting threads asking for explanation, but I can never quite dispel the feeling that the potential of Ethereum is a bit like the emperor's new clothes. Really, I'm fairly educated and patient, but I simply can't see advantages which justify this price growth. Really, this seems to be at least 90% pure speculation, and I don't believe ethereum has nearly the proportion of 'true believers' or 'strong hands' that Bitcoin does.

   I am really trying to keep an open mind, and I would be happy to be proven wrong- personally I want to see the success of crypto in general, I am not particularly attached to any coin,  but really I see a perfect $%*& storm brewing here.


      Please, someone correct me if I am wrong. These ICO's represent numerous side chains on the ETH blockchain, right? Has anyone ever tried running dozens of massive side chains on any blockchain? Talk about scaling issues, doesn't this mean the amount of data required to run the blockchain will be increasing dramatically?

   Every single ETH project I read about sounds marginally useful, at best. I am 110,000% open to being proven wrong, but I've been around the stock market and small businesses most of my life and studied economics, and I realy believe I know a viable business model when I see one.

    Bitcoin in itself is a deathblow in terms of disruption to remissions, gold bugs, inflationary currencies, capital controls, drug dealers, and other black marketeers, and will continue to be preferred for ransomware attacks due to relative ease of acquisition and infrastructure in place. As almost all Ethereum supporters point out, ETH is not meant to challenge any of these roles of bitcoin, but all of these aspects of bitcoin make it clear to me how literally trillions of dollars could pour into bitcoin, but I don't underdstand why this would happen with ETH.

   I really feel the sentiment driving ETHs price growth is the feeling that "I missed the boat" with bitcoin and here comes the next bitcoin. The reality, though, is that bitcoin is just getting started, and a lot of what is stopping people from buying BTC is that they are still thinking in BTC rather than Satoshis. I mean, people think, "I can't even afford one bitcoin" instead of "I can afford a quarter million Satoshis!"

     This, coupled with the fact that smart contract functionality really seems to sound like the most convincing property that could "improve" on bitcoins blockchain, and the endless speculation that bitcoin surely won't be the crypto, is leading to an absolutely greed driven run up. And with greed comes fear.

     I never feared for the potential of bitcoin, and there is no price at which I would have panic sold. I simply can't say the same for Ethereum, but as I said, I am still waiting for a single case use example that can really show me that the long term potential is a fraction that of bitcoin.


    Honestly, when I read a story about Ethereum being used by the UN to distribute aid to Syrian refugees, it really got me wondering. This, coupled with the big money behind Butemin, and the fact that the supply of ether is not fixed, really makes me wonder if Ethereum is not the global elite's response to bitcoin, although this goes down the conspiracy road.

     The ethereum craze seems to me to be the culmination of the shift of media attention from bitcoin to blockchain. This shift seemed to be somewhat coordinated, and at the same time numerous central banks started experimenting with blockchain.

    I believe firmly that bitcoin is a threat to the present financial elite, and I also know they are not going to take this lying down.

     A fixed quantity currency won't work, because the MO of central banks is to steal value by dilluting the value of the currency, and controlling the issuance of the currency is the only way to do this. The rising difficulty with bitcoin makes such an assault nearly impossible, but this would not be the case with proof of stake, to which ETH is currently transitioning. ETH has a gimmick in the form of smart contracts that could allow it to take over market dominance from bitcoin, and still have all the benefits of bitcoin, while being tweaked just a little in order to set it so the current elite can quietly control and manipulate it far more effectively than bitcoin, thereby making sure not too much more power slips from their grasp.

     I mean really, lets say I belong to a family thay controls a big part of global finance, and possibly influences the governance of most of the central banks of the world. I learn then that a deflationary, decentralized currency has been invented that is starting to eat market share from my currencies. (And yes, providing currency is a service- just one that we have taken for granted is monopolized).

      Upon researching, I would realize the blockchain has real utility and can provide efficiency gains. So I would instruct all of the banks under my control to implement the block chain tech independently to claim the efficiency gains without causing bitcoin to capture any more of my market share.

    As bitcoin continued growing, I would have to find a way to make sure it stays a fringe movement, and at the same time create a currency that offered people whatever it is they like about bitcoin, but that I can influence and dillute.

     Sorry, I don't know how a comment on whether or not ETH is in a bubble turned into a conspiracy rant. It really wouldn't be this way if someone could just please give me a rock solid example of a revolutionary and highly disruptive ETH use case that could compare even remotely to the potential of bitcoins disruption of the financial sector.

ETH price is currently being sustained and pushed upwards by all the ICOs that are accepting it for contributions.

Now wait until all these ICO will need to cash some of their ETH holdings to pay for things... Yes they could pay in ETH or hodl for a while too so not saying it will happen all at once.

when prices go up based on real demand you can not really consider that rise a bubble. for bitcoin this demand has been mostly real from new investors with fresh money that came in based on all the new changes in the world such as legalization/regulation of bitcoin in Japan, then the green light from Russia and the proposal of removal of taxes on bitcoin in Australia, the new regulation in China, ... all these people came in and they are real demand that will keep the price up.
that also means the value of bitcoin goes higher so those mentioning intrinsic value of bitcoin should consider the new level caused by new demand.

All the altcoins are in a MASSIVE bubble!
This includes Vitalium a well of course!Totally overvalued and I see it going below $100 easily!!
Bitcoin was growing parabolic in some phases but always has seen bigger corrections.Imo Bitcoin was not/is not really in a bubble so far.
This however does not mean that the actual price will hold. A look at the weekly chart and some indicators show us, that a dump to $1300 could be possible. We've never tested this area as a support level after the breakout. So a huge pullback could definitely happen.
And if it holds, we would still be in a bullish trend!

Either Cryptocurrencies are in a bubble, or the tech is going to scale up at a rapid pace to match the current market capital of the whole entire series.
Eth is just leveraged in that all the little assets in it add up to the value of it.
If those internal ones become worthless then its a bubble or if they become useful then it is not.

but how can we calculate what the price should be

this part is the problem!
sometimes it is too obvious that a price is in a bubble. for example the case of most of the altcoins, including ethereum. but sometimes it is not possible. and those who are saying bitcoin is or is not in a bubble are saying random guesses. the question is "what is the price of bitcoin at this point or what should it be?" and there is no easy answer for this, the intrinsic value of bitcoin is not something you can just put a number on. saying it is $2000 or $2800 or $1500 and then decide whether it is in a bubble or not.

A more accurate statement would be that the crypto market is in a bubble

etherum (ETH) down price because many problem about transaction
i thin first problem in ETH about transaction same with bitcoin, etherum this now is very high sending transaction

both of them were in a bubble, bitcoin a small bubble and etehreum in a much bigger bubble.
bitcoin's bubble busted and it is now over but ethereum's bubble never did, the price has been going down mostly because of the bug and panic but the burst has not started yet.

The grammar is not correct and it's very important for the context. "a bubble" means it is a bubble within itself, like the very thing is a bubble, in this sense "a bubble" is basically "a ponzi".

You should say "in a bubble", this means that the price is temporarily to high to what it should be.

In the first context, then yes, ETH is fucked in my book in it's very fundamentals.

As far as the price goes, I also think it's bubbled, but calling the top of a bubble is hard task, since some bubbles can take years to pop, so I can't just say to people to dump their ETH because who knows, it could it $1000 if the hype continues indefinitely.

At one point Litecoin hit around $50, then about 14 months later it bottomed out at around a $1 each. I expect the crash on Ethereum may even be worse.

Another way of looking at Ethereum: Bitcoin at least had a few small crashes before the long crash after the peak around Nov 2013. Ethereum has never been through a big crash before and a crazy amount of money has gone into. The Ethereum community has only seen FOMO and MORE MORE MORE. They have grown arrogant. It will crash hard.

Don't get me wrong, I think Ethereum has a future. Maybe I will even buy a few when the price drops below $5 later next year.

The thing with bubbles is, nobody really knows it exists until it bursts. There are so many anonymous investors that could be susceptible to removing money if the major economies start to fail. There are larger boom and bust waves around the world - when they hit the US or Europe, it might plummet or rocket further. Digital currencies seem too new to predict

True. Ethereum has been pumped infinitely and the dump is inevitable for this coin. Only traders who did trading love Ethereum as it made them money but now the price is falling down slowly. Everyone is realizing that the pump is going to go back to where it once was or at about 0.02-0.03 bitcoin and not more.

There's a set of conditions on the charts that happen only during bubble times.

I outline and compare them to the most recent bubble from 2013 here for Bitcoin.

As for Ethereum, it is evident to the untrained eye. See posting above mine.

over 40x increase in a handful of months. icos that no one understands selling out in seconds. r/ethtrader filled with thousands of posts a day about buying lambos.

does any of that smell like business as usual?