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Topic: Trust flags - page 15. (Read 12952 times)

sr. member
Activity: 1372
Merit: 322
June 12, 2019, 11:00:02 PM
I guess bounty managers too will now need to tweak this rule to accommodate the new flag system rather than the default trust

Quote
*Do not have any legitimate negative feedback from any DT member. Receiving negative feedback during your stay could lead to your termination from the campaign without payment or notice.
That's not relevant here.
Oh! You really do think so? Don't be ludicrous. This is going to have a ripple effects if you don't know and tweaking that campaign rule is one of such.
Ask bounty manager to do whatever they need. That's not a forum issue. Don't post this garbage here. It's a ongoing discussion thread, and it should be on topic.
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 1225
Once a man, twice a child!
June 12, 2019, 10:54:58 PM
I guess bounty managers too will now need to tweak this rule to accommodate the new flag system rather than the default trust

Quote
*Do not have any legitimate negative feedback from any DT member. Receiving negative feedback during your stay could lead to your termination from the campaign without payment or notice.
That's not relevant here.
Oh! You really do think so? Don't be ludicrous. This is going to have a ripple effects if you don't know and tweaking that campaign rule is one of such.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
June 12, 2019, 10:54:02 PM
Is a non-victim creating an otherwise factual flag also considered to be abusing the system?

Is someone who supports a factual flag that was created by a non-victim also considered to be abusing the system?

And is someone who opposes a valid flag also considered to be abusing the system?

That's all misuse of the system.

Can you explain how supporters (or opponents) of these two flags are or are not misusing the system:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=60
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=56

It almost sounds to me like flags should have either 100% support or 100% opposition. If there is a split then one side is wrong and that side is misusing the system... what am I missing?
sr. member
Activity: 1372
Merit: 322
June 12, 2019, 10:51:52 PM
I guess bounty managers too will now need to tweak this rule to accommodate the new flag system rather than the default trust

Quote
*Do not have any legitimate negative feedback from any DT member. Receiving negative feedback during your stay could lead to your termination from the campaign without payment or notice.
That's not relevant here.
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 1225
Once a man, twice a child!
June 12, 2019, 10:50:44 PM
I guess bounty managers too will now need to tweak this rule to accommodate the new flag system rather than the default trust as almost all the negative trusts have disappeared.

Quote
*Do not have any legitimate negative feedback from any DT member. Receiving negative feedback during your stay could lead to your termination from the campaign without payment or notice.
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
June 12, 2019, 10:25:14 PM
Some changes:
 - If the number of pre-flags-system negative trust ratings is greater than the number of all positive trust ratings, a warning banner is shown for guests & low-login-time newbies.
 - I added "These warning banners will disappear when you have 7 days of login time. You should familiarize yourself with the trust system before then." to the newbie warning banner. Note BTW that it usually takes months for someone to get 7 days of login time: among all 4096 users with 6.5 to 7.5 days login time, the account age (lastLogin-dateRegistered) is: maximum 3216 days, minimum 7.5, median 677, average 936.
 - The pages you see after clicking "next" are now bigger.
 


Some people are acting as though these changes are "letting scammers off the hook", but I don't really think so. Let's assume for a moment that flag types 2 & 3 are too restrictive and will therefore never be used. Even then, you can still give scammers negative feedback, which will display next to their posts in orange, and the threshold for giving negative feedback has been loosened. You can also give newbie-warning flags very easily, and the warning which this creates is shown to more people than any previous warning.

The only thing that scammers got is that they don't have red trust scores or a "trade with extreme caution" warning. But when you consider the measures in the previous paragraph, who is actually going to be scammed due to the absence of this? I think few if any. IMO the main point of these things was to punish/deter scamming, which is what was causing a lot of drama. And by making the threshold for this specific thing higher, it became reasonable to lower the threshold and widen the effect for the other warnings.

I think that scamming will be net-reduced due to these changes.

This system actually incentivizes one-account-one-scam

If someone creates a newbie account and tries to scam with it, they have roughly the same ability as before. The only thing they might be missing is a tiny piece of screen real estate shown only to logged-in users with a trust score and "Trade with extreme caution!" The more effective warnings are the banners, which have been expanded.

If someone does a long con, they have more to lose, since the scam flags create a banner for all users, and it's more exclusive and therefore meaningful. This can give you a bit more confidence in veteran members.

So how should we doing it with som kind of the " Fake Ann creators " that posting links to there Malware Software in there text ?

Newbie-warning flag.

Is a non-victim creating an otherwise factual flag also considered to be abusing the system?

Is someone who supports a factual flag that was created by a non-victim also considered to be abusing the system?

And is someone who opposes a valid flag also considered to be abusing the system?

That's all misuse of the system.

@Theymos, I have opened a scam accusation here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/roger-vermemorydealers-is-intentionally-defrauding-people-5153498

People have lost money/had to recover their funds because of this user and I have included several clear fact-statements in my topic. Would it be against the rules for me to (attempt to) add a scammer flag since I personally haven't dealt with the user in question?

If you have not been scammed by him, then you should not create a scam flag. A newbie-warning flag and/or trust rating would be OK.


On agreement types:

A written contract is a piece of text taking the rough form of "I will do this, and then you will do this in return," where both sides clearly agreed to it. It needn't be super formal, but there definitely shouldn't be any case of someone not realizing that they were agreeing to something. "I'll send you 1 BTC for the coin" -> "OK" is enough of a written contract.

Exactly what falls into an "implied agreement" may be somewhat grey-area, and certain very obvious torts may also count. Let's see how the culture around this develops.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
June 12, 2019, 08:40:16 PM
Judging from what theymos wrote it sounds like it's intended only the victim can flag?
No victim creates flag = no scam happened. That's what the system is now.
And we're back to troll + 20 alt accounts = scam happened. This system is 10 steps back - it'd almost be better if everything was deleted.
member
Activity: 252
Merit: 56
June 12, 2019, 08:03:53 PM
Judging from what theymos wrote it sounds like it's intended only the victim can flag?
No victim creates flag = no scam happened. That's what the system is now.

can we see the victims that we scammed we notice you and your pal hhampuz and some noob dreg have given us a shiny new flag.

be great when you are all blacklisted.

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
June 12, 2019, 06:53:02 PM
Judging from what theymos wrote it sounds like it's intended only the victim can flag?
No victim creates flag = no scam happened. That's what the system is now.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
June 12, 2019, 06:51:26 PM
I somewhat like the idea that anyone can create a flag after creating a scam accusation thread searching support for the claims. It's a clear and clean thing that can be followed.

But my question is, a flag can be supported only for:
a single case
of a contract breach
flagged by the victim
or is it broader?

Judging from what theymos wrote it sounds like it's intended only the victim can flag? Also contract means a deal between two parties? If it means the forum rules then it would be way broader and include admin work.

Let's use this feature right from the start, I'm sure it will be beneficial.

Also, will there be some form of pm showing the flags of the day or so in order to raise awareness of the flags? Might be a good thing if a broader mass of members is checking.
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 6643
be constructive or S.T.F.U
June 12, 2019, 05:58:37 PM
Sure, that makes sense. But what do you do when the mods ignore it for ~4 years?

If you reported him for being a scammer, nothing will happen, not in a 40 years, if you reported him for ban evasion and he is not yet banned, then you are probably wrong in thinking they are the same "person" - as the mods have better tools than us to determine these ban evasions.

legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
June 12, 2019, 05:46:00 PM
Anyway that member should be reported to Mods for breaking the rules, a feedback/flag for that is a terrible idea.

Sure, that makes sense. But what do you do when the mods ignore it for ~4 years?
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 6643
be constructive or S.T.F.U
June 12, 2019, 05:38:38 PM
this clearly falls within violation of contractual agreement.

The forum rules are buried in a section that most people don't visit, there is no guarantee that member has read and agreed on those terms, therefore I don't see how this fits into a  "contractual agreement ".

Anyway that member should be reported to Mods for breaking the rules, a feedback/flag for that is a terrible idea.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
June 12, 2019, 05:13:55 PM
This is a terrible, terrible idea.

Showing what is essentially a scammer flag to people with account ages only less than 7 days essentially just opened the door to 10,000's of scammers. There are so many accounts that I've previously tagged that I no longer can, because it doesn't fit into the narrow definitions.

For example, the guy with 20-30 accounts who is permabanned off the site but who keeps creating more... I can't 2. or 3. tag him, and 1. will do next to nothing...
You could say that he is violating a written or implied contract/agreement. If the violation is ongoing, you could move the date up to the present.

Further, if he is banned, you should report him to the administration and additional accounts he creates should be banned.

Since ban evasion is a violation of the terms of service of the site, this clearly falls within violation of contractual agreement.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
June 12, 2019, 04:21:03 PM
You could say that he is violating a written or implied contract/agreement.

Wait, what now? "say that he is"? How about there being a contract to begin with?
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
June 12, 2019, 04:07:21 PM
This is a terrible, terrible idea.

Showing what is essentially a scammer flag to people with account ages only less than 7 days essentially just opened the door to 10,000's of scammers. There are so many accounts that I've previously tagged that I no longer can, because it doesn't fit into the narrow definitions.

For example, the guy with 20-30 accounts who is permabanned off the site but who keeps creating more... I can't 2. or 3. tag him, and 1. will do next to nothing...
You could say that he is violating a written or implied contract/agreement. If the violation is ongoing, you could move the date up to the present.

Further, if he is banned, you should report him to the administration and additional accounts he creates should be banned.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
June 12, 2019, 03:59:15 PM
This is a terrible, terrible idea.

Showing what is essentially a scammer flag to people with account ages only less than 7 days essentially just opened the door to 10,000's of scammers. There are so many accounts that I've previously tagged that I no longer can, because it doesn't fit into the narrow definitions.

For example, the guy with 20-30 accounts who is permabanned off the site but who keeps creating more... I can't 2. or 3. tag him, and 1. will do next to nothing...
member
Activity: 270
Merit: 17
June 12, 2019, 03:06:02 PM
RE: Abuse of the Flagging

Lauda lied when they flagged Quickseller and Lauda received a RED Neg  from theymos himself. Now the question remains will Lauda be expelled from the DT?  It has only been 1 day since the new flagging program has been alive and already Lauda is abusing it.

What say you theymos?
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 6643
be constructive or S.T.F.U
June 12, 2019, 02:57:21 PM
I don't like the fact that many scammers' profiles now look somehow legit, thanks to every  DT member who misused the trust system and to everyone who kept rambling about it for the past couple months/years.

Can't say i don't like the update yet, let's see how it goes from here, meanwhile let's encourage everyone to use a custom trust list.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
June 12, 2019, 02:49:00 PM
Is countering feedback still a thing?
I don't think it is as negative has kind-of-become ineffective. I've been asked this several times today actually.

Ah fuck it, I did it anyway. If it's ok to red-trust for lying then I might as well post a positive trust for telling the truth. You have told me the truth at least once, right?  Grin

Are there any way to see all trust flags with reasoning filter? I think it could save time for those who usually often give trust feedback.

Not at this time but a similar feature has been requested: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/theymos-suggestion-new-flags-section-5153606
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