Topic: Trustdice.win , UPD: TRUSTDICE SCAM, 2138$ USDT confiscated. (SOLVED) - page 3. (Read 1730 times)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=3066

Check my flag please. I don't know if I did everything right

I have supported the flag against the casino and its forum admin. When they created the flag, Poika5 mentioned Laki21000's thread (the one we are writing in) and that's why I can support it. I want to remain unbiased and neutral and since I am not familiar yet with Poika5's case and their claim against Trustdice, I couldn't have supported a flag created because of that incident. 

I would also suggest that Laki21000 create a Type 2 or 3 type of flag for his particular case because he is directly affected by the casino's actions.
When you have created the flag Laki21000, you can post the link here so that other users can support it if they want to. Put a link in your first post as well.
You can also request support for your flag or the one created by Poika5 by posting about it in LoyceV's thread Request Support (or Opposition) for Flags here!. Just make sure you follow the guidelines as explained by LoyceV.

I think some clarification is needed here, some aspect needed to be straigthened out.

First of all, Coinbox1allow me to edit-slash-quote the post you quoted with the unsnipped version that will give a broader and almost different meaning than what your cleverly snipped version conveyed, marked in italic with key notes marked in red.


If I may stressed the point you tried to prove on those posts were that OP bet at a very late of the game, because the game started at 02.00 of OP's local time, with an assumption that average NBA game lasts 2h13m, so at 03.54, OP's bet --according to you, at that moment--  is near the end of the game where the result is predictable --I'd leave the "fact" that according to your own data and assumption at that point, there's still 19 mins left on the game, that's 1 quarter of a basketball match itself-- and can be considered as a late betting, which later Pmalek argued that your calculation should include the delay that happen on the opening of the game, thus OP's timing to place his bet is even further from the end of the game.


Yes, he did include NBA, but he wasn't exclusively talking about NBA, he's referring to --as per your own word, edited to be gramatically correct with the rest of my sentence-- them, namely the sports he's familiar with.


No, his sentence means a broader scope, not exclusively NBA, an educated-based-on-experience answer where most sport in US --that he's familiar with-- begins with delay, disregarding the length of the delay, a delay is a delay. Sports almost never played right on the time stated on their schedule.

And, returning us back to the point being discussed, what he said is basically fall along the line: you should add time of delay to your calculation.

This entire discussion became entirely useless though, because OP came with an extremely specific and official timeline published by NBA themselves --where the delay did happen for 10 minutes.

What I tried to say for these part of my post is: painting Pmalek as someone bad is really frown inducing, because he asked you multiple times to give another example, he gave you an un-sided request that perhaps there is another case that can show and prove your claim that OP did a late bet. He gave you what was due to you: a benefit of doubts. Which you never use.

And to be fair, it is you who attacked Pmalek --sneakily if I may add, by editing your first post on this thread where it can be easily missed by anyone who jumped straight to the last post they read-- by saying he distorted your words and the conversation became non constructive and unproductive. He asked you for another case to be dissected, how's this unproductive? How's this inconsistent with how you do business? Simply put, we almost can say he tried to say, "This case you gave is unproven to be true, please give another example that better show the point you tried to say about OP." Isn't that you do your business? Profesionally and always seeking for proven truth?


OP had the details, all of the points you wanted to know and wrote above, for your perusal and you still ignored them. How's this trying to resolve the issue with OP?

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Now, seeing how Coinbox1 reacted to Pmalek's post, I think it is necessary to add this note before I said what i'll say next: the sentence below is purely describing my personal opinion and judgement, and it should not be used to build your --and by "you" I mean anyone reading this thread-- opinion of OP, Trustdice, Trustdice's representative Coinbox1, or anyone else in this thread.

"OP, seeing Coinbox1's choice of action and how they reacted and behaved to the development of this case reminds me of what I initially thought when I read their post here, that they're trying to grasp at the straws. If their action is the reflection of how the platform operates and how they handled future issues, I'm afraid this is a detrimental behavior. I've been aware that Poika5 had raised a flag here against Coinbox1 on behalf of this thread, that I've been reluctant to support until further development and shows of good will or cooperation from them. But, seeing how they reacted, answered, and keeps refusing to give a strong evidence for their counter-accusation against you, I am inclined to believe they are not about to show any good will. Thus, I am supporting Poika5's flag. Their flag is a type-1, you are free to create another flag of type-2 or 3 if you want to and I'll probably support that too if they still refuse to show another case to support their counter-accusation against you and prove that you're cheating them."

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Edit: fixing the flag link

In my opinion, the case has reached a dead end, or they don’t want to solve it, or they no longer have arguments

Are you done?

Now with that out of the way, the only way forward is you proving that the player is a malicious person who partakes in frowned upon activities such as late betting. You have not done that yet and instead you have made yourself look ridiculous with claims that bets were placed at the end of the matches. If you can't prove the player is a cheater, his account needs to be unlocked, so that he can withdraw the winnings.

Do you have any plans to post some proof of a late bet? It shouldn't be that hard for you since there are so many examples in the OP's betting history, right? I wonder why it takes so long...

@coinbox1, please turn off the who is offended at everyone because you are accused of something, and conduct a constructive dialogue, there are more than 40 messages where evidence has already been provided for my bet, what else do you want?  maybe you need to go to the stadium cleaner and find out when the match started?  what are you even carrying?
@holydarkness told you all the movement of the match and made an assumption, I think they are good in resolving the dispute, but since you ran out of arguments, you decided to behave properly, strange

these are all people independent of me, can you still say that I am in cahoots with them?  what will you say next to protect your "scam casino"?


you write misleading users, you never answered my mail after sentencing me, it’s as if your mail is dead where you don’t answer anyone

because they don’t care about us, the players, they are sitting here to protect their reputation, nothing more, this is done so that new players come and leave money with them, they don’t care about me and you, judging by the behavior of @coinbox1, this is obvious


_______________________________________________________________________________ __________

https://statsdmz.nba.com/pdfs/20221130/20221130_HOUDEN_book.pdf (OFFICIAL NBA SITE)

go to the site nba.com and there will be match statistics, I will attach it now, I hope this is the right source for you
_______________________________________________________________________________ ___________________
Can this be considered evidence that the start time of the match was indicated in the official report of the NBA, on the site nba.com?

https://imgur.com/a/ohe6Mh4
https://imgur.com/a/W9u4Y8f

My bet was made at 8:53pm, match started at 7:10pm, 4th quarter started at 8:48pm, match ended at 9:13pm, match duration 2 hours 23 minutes, I think that's enough to understand everything.  I do not know what time zone is indicated in the document. (Time is from NBA report file)

I consider this the most official of the most official sources to prove all match times.

Coinbox1 edited his first post, RIP.




Then why you've been ignoring him for the past 5 days?
Your sports provider wouldn't label OP as an abuser, they are not that stupid.

Irrelevant
The score was HOU 79, DEN 106
4th 9:07 Full timeout (Timeout #4)
https://betsapi.com/rs/cloudbet/5486040/HOU-Rockets-vs-DEN-Nuggets

Irrelevant

Don't try to twist my words please. I wasn't talking about NBA exclusively, was I?. I said US sports, as in all the major sports being played in The States. And then I mentioned the ones I am familiar with. On top of that, I would like to mention NCAA college basketball as well. Sometimes it happens that two NCAA matches are broadcast on the same channel one after the other. If one match starts late (which they do) or lasts longer than expected, so does the other one. If the first match goes into overtime, for example, the second sometimes doesn't tip off before the first one ends. There are various combinations. If you are not aware of US sports beginning with a delay than I am afraid you don't know that much.   

A 10-mins delay is still a delay, is it not? And that's what I said. US sports begin with a delay and never on time.

You are unbelievable. You just said in your previous sentence that from your experience NBA matches begin later than expected, even if only 10 minutes. You don't need a source. Take a look at tonight's program of US sports, pick a few matches, log in to bet365 (because they stream them live) and see at what time they will start.

You are the one that needs to provide proof that the player is doing late betting. You haven't done it yet. We have established that the bets the player placed on the match you used as an example was done with 8-9 mins left in the 4th quarter.

I am very close to suggesting that OP should create a flag against your casino and tag you as a scammer. I am going to support those tags unless you provide a valid reason why you have confiscated the player's funds with data that can be publicly verified with sources like BetsAPI. Are you going to provide proof or not? 

I am tagging LoyceV in this post. Let's see what one of the most trusted members of this forum thinks of "the proof" you have presented thus far. @LoyceV I know there is a lot to read but take as much time as you need, and share your thoughts if you feel you can contribute to the issue.   

According to the terms and conditions of the TrustDice website,
*19.4 In the event of any dispute, you agree that the server logs and records shall act as the final authority in determining the outcome of any claim. You agree that in the unlikely event of a disagreement between the result that appears on your screen and the game server, the result that was logged on the game server will prevail, and you acknowledge and agree that our records will be the final authority in determining the terms and circumstances of your participation in the relevant online gaming activity and the results of this participation.

consequently the claims that were made against me are not true, according to the terms and conditions, I ask for my winnings to be withdraw to me.

https://i.imgur.com/tKGigw6.png

The argument from TD is absurd, NBA games are by far the most egregious in terms of starting way after start time, and OP should get his money back unless multiple examples can be presented of a) OP placing bets right at the end of the period, and b) right before a favourable event happened (e.g. Placing a bet on the over with 30 seconds left right before a 3 pointer is hit, prior to the odds getting updated). The fact that the only example presented did not show this is quite poor.

Providers also have access to feeds far faster than any stream and generally take awhile to confirm whether to accept live bets (especially towards the end of the games) should already mean that this practice is all but impossible remotely

Hi, we met here. So I followed Pmalek's advise on the other thread about four eyes... Let's hope my brain can catch up with these piling and crossing-each-other cases. I'd like to begin with me coming clean that I have little to no knowledge in basketball, let alone NBA betting, so this is quite an uncharted territory for me.

With that in the air, let's make sure we are all in the same page. You accused OP of late bet cheating, that much I know for sure, but am I right to assume that the following scenario is what you tried to convey:

That during 1 Dec, OP place a bet between Nuggets and Rockets game, which start at 02.00 their local time, add the assumption that NBA never plays on time, and although you'd like to say that based on what you know a delay is rare, it's still there, they still have to introduce team, sing anthem, etc. --yes, I quora-ed this one-- so let's combine what a stranger on Quora said with Pmalek's suggestion about the delay, let's agree on the shortest span possible to warm up, sing and to introduce people, etc., a 10 minutes, which place us in a situation where the actual game play at 02.10.

Now, as I've warned you all, this is an uncharted territory for me. So a funny but long story that could be very short if I want to --but I don't--, I've spent three four five hours digging the internet for things, realized I provided wrong data during my final proof read, re-searching the net, and finally got the right video... only to realize that the thing I'd like to prove is already served here. Anyway, as I don't want these three five hours thrown into trash, I think it still can contribute as a supporting evidence for the timestamp.

Now, I don't know if there's an easier way to actually know how long does the game lasted --oh dear, how naive I was two hours ago, certainly there is, as evidenced far below. I took what I can to get this info, which ultimately lead me to this video¹ where someone gave kinda live comments on the said game --why???--

To save you all from having to watch the entire video --if you don't want to-- allow me to put some important points based on the video timeline, which a rough estimation in a sense that it is not down to a precise second, give or take five to ten seconds because the time displayed by the "scoreboard" is not a live countdown, they updated the MM:SS based on the event happened on the field. Let's go ahead.

The video is 03:06:25 long, with the game itself started --roughly-- at 00:00:38 with 1 min and 26 seconds already on its way and ended at 01:59:00. At 00:23:07 the first quarter ended, at 00:25:49 the second quarter started; the thing I wanted to point out here, the video did happen in real time because according to this page, rest time between Q1 and Q2 is 1 minutes and 30 seconds --or two minutes, not sure which one is which. With that in our hand, lets skip waaaaayyyyyy forward to the end of the video, 01:59:00 where the video owner ended his live commentation for the game --I didn't watch what heppened for the next 1h6m-- with 1 minutes and 24 seconds left on the game.

Based on the video, because it already begun one and a half minutes before the video started and it ended one and a half minutes after the video creator closed his scoreboard, and because if anyone watched the video they would learn that 30 secs left on their timer could stretch to a very very long minutes, it won't be wrong to say that the entire game lasted more than 2 hours, let's say 2 hours and 3 minutes just for convenience.

Taking these numbers into our clock, as the final result, the game would start at 02.10 and ended at 04.13. As you said that OP placed their bet on 03.54, that'll be around 19 minutes before the game ended. And if we take this number back to our video, 19 minutes before 01:59:00 would be 01.40.00ish on the video, which....



If the image is not clear enough, it shows 09:07 --this is where, when I typed this number, I realized that the same information acquired at an easier way was already provided by Poika5-- of quarter 4, definitely a very very long time before the end of the game. May I remind us all again, how 30s can stretch very long, as proven how 9 mins on the scoreboard translates to roughly 19 minutes before the game actually ended. So, the accusation of late betting where OP placed their bet at the end of the game is not true, at least not for this bet. You can submit another to be reviewed, though.


Here, the "statistics", I added a few extra seconds to search for it --literally above my Quora result--, enjoy.


As for the reliability, I don't think we really need a reliable source to prove that NBA didn't start on time, almost every sport event never played on time. When did the last time you turned on your TV at 16.00 and boom, suddenly you see 22 people chasing one little round boy on a huge grass field? Or at 21.00 and you see a man punched someone else with a killer hook while hundreds of people cheering them up? With no commentation or any other opening at all? Yeah.

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¹No, I am not related at any degree with the owner of that video, give him a like or subscribe or whatever if you want to.

Why do you think this matters at all? We already know when OP placed his bets.
What are you even trying do say at this point? That every customer who bets during the 4th quarter gets banned?
Your Provider offers late game betting because it makes money for their clients(Trustdice, Bitsler, Duelbits etc).

The Denver Nuggets are averaging 115 points per game, how is under 124.5 comparable to 115? Do you even understand that lines move during the game? If Denver scores 44 points in the first quarter it will move Denver 'team total' from 115.5 to 127.5 etc.

Hello Pmalek,


As a reputable casino & bookie, we try our best communicate with the Bitcointalk community, but when you say NBA games "always begin with a delay", it doesn't seem consistent with what I (the marketing guy behind this post) know.

I no longer watch NBA these days, but when I did, delays of over 10 minutes were rare. My knowledge might not be the most up-to-date and perhaps NBAs do always start with a delay these days. Therefore, could you kindly provide a reliable source of statistics supporting the claim that NBA games "always begin with a delay" and "can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins"?

Thank you.
TrustDice Team.

I don't know why many casino gambling site when their user won huge amount and try for withdrawing always make it difficult, acquiring KYC should apply at the beginning when user deposit fund and not try it after they won and withdraw huge amount. I have checked with your withdrawal history and have several time withdrawing success but what happen with last withdrawing have been reviewed and need to submit KYC?

Keep up with your account problem and I don't agree with World Cup have huge volume of withdrawing become reason why your withdrawing not process instant.

I read your accusation in my favor and I’m just shocked by them, your accusations simply do not coincide with reality, if they were true your provider would have canceled my bets long ago, but now you already attribute to me that you can return the bet with the wrong odds or an error in the market, above, Mr. @poika1 gave you evidence that there is nothing wrong with my bet, it was not made at the end of the match, and without mistake, you are also trying to attribute new accusations to me, which is not entirely correct on your part, because now you are trying to catch on to any snag so as not to honestly pay me my winnings, honestly this is ridiculous, I'm just now watching the scene in the theater as the prosecutor is trying to accuse the victim of what he did not do, your messages simply do not match what is happening, please pay me my fair winnings and conduct honest business on your part, I am open to communication, I am ready to provide you with any information and prove to you my honesty, but to unfortunately, I see that you are trying your best to totally ignore me, which is not entirely correct of you, the trump cards are of course on your side, because in your possession is my winnings, which in my opinion you appropriated illegally, it’s very strange, @poika, I didn’t even know such services are what I cited as an example and figured out the bets, thank you very much friend, you obviously know more than the trustdice security service

I also want to say @pmalek that I found this crypto casino here on bitcointalk, I registered here on November 3 and started looking for a good crypto casino, I saw that the casino is responsive and openly responds to players, makes contact (so I thought), I registered 6 -November 8 there and began to place bets

It's not late betting, they are wrong. The wager was placed at the beginning of the 4th quarter. Most sportsbooks accept live bets up until the last minute of play. The available markets depend on the score. But you can't allow people to place bets on your site, accept those bets, and then say they are invalid because they were late bets when in fact they weren't.

We can't check if the odds on Trustdice were off if we can't compare with the data that was available on other sportsbooks at the same time. That's why a different example is needed.

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@Coinbox1
Show an example of a late bet that can be independently verified please.

I know but Denver Under 124.5 2.45, with 9 minutes to play is reasonable. Def not a "bug" from their provider.

The Denver Nuggets are averaging 26 points in the fourth quarter:
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/4th-quarter-points-per-game
26/4 = 6.5
26-6.5 = 19.5

With 9 minutes to play, on average Denver scores 19.5 points.
106 + 19.5 = 125.5




But why do they call it late betting when OP placed both bets during the timeout?

Anyone who is familiar with US sports will know that their matches NEVER begin on time. So, any conclusions you make regarding how long a match lasts based on the starting time is wrong. I am familiar with the MLS, NBA, and NHL (I can't say anything for other leagues/sports), and they always begin with a delay. That can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins.

Those wagers that Coinbox1 mentioned are for total points count for a team. BetsAPI doesn't have odds for those markets. But based on the timestamps, I can confirm that the wager was made at the beginning of the 4th quarter with about 8-9 minutes until the end of the match. There is nothing wrong with betting at that time. However, we can't compare the offered odds on Trustdice with other bookies because the stats are missing on BetsAPI. Do you have any other source similar to BetsAPI that shows data for additional markets.

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@Coinbox1
Can you show a different example for something you consider a late bet where we can confirm the data? But not a bet on the totals for a team. 

The score was 79:106(w 9 Minutes left)

https://betsapi.com/rs/bet365/5486040/HOU-Rockets-vs-DEN-Nuggets


(Im 2 hours in front of UTC)

So everybody who bets during the 4th quarter gets banned?

'Under 124.5 2.45 Denver Total' looks standard, because Denver had 106 points w 9 minutes left.
You are wasting your Providers time.

Im speechless by your "evidence", it feels like trying to explain sportsbetting to my grandma.
Trustdice should close their sportsbook ASAP, and hire some people who have experience in this field.

Hello everyone,

Just a quick update that the permission has been granted by our CEO to share some detailed info here. I will draft a detailed explanation and update this post.
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Unfortunately, Pmalek's interpretation of the OP's behaviors is incorrect. (Yet still we appreciate your involvement). OP frequently placed bets at the end of the game following a specific pattern. Below comes an example.

The Denver Nuggets and Houston Rockets game began on November 30 at 9:00 PM EST, which is 2:00 AM on December 1 in UTC time.

On December 1, at 3:54 AM, 1 hour and 54 minutes into the game, OP placed a bet on it. Strangely, though, the odds he managed to catch was comparable to those at the beginning of the game. So extremely favorable and abnormal odds.




In 2022, a NBA game will typically last 2 hours and 13 minutes. Therefore, when the OP placed the bet, it was very much the end of the game, when the overall outcomes became easily predictable, or even already available if we are talking about a shorter than average game.

We agree with you Pmalek that this should not happen at all. But somehow OP managed to make it happen, and made it happen repetitively. We do not know why such bets were accepted by our sports provider either. It could be a bug found then exploited by the OP, and/or an error on their part, or something beyond at least my comprehension. We are still investigating how this happened with our sports provider.

Nevertheless, OP's betting behavior clearly constitutes "late betting abuse" which is prohibited by our T&C. He captured some early- or pre-game odds that should have ceased to exist hours ago.

In addition, OP's betting behaviors also violate our Sports Betting Rules:
* In the case of any obviously incorrectly displayed or calculated prices, we reserve the right to void betting. This includes a deviation of more than 100% in the pay-out compared to the market average.
* In the case of an incorrect settlement of markets, we reserve the right to correct them at any time.

As a result, the overwhelming evidence suggests that OP is an abuser rather than a regular sports bettor. No legit sports bettor can pull this off.

The bottom line is that OP somehow found a way to capture extremely favorable odds that are not supposed to be available at the time he bet it. And he managed to do it repetitively. Such odds do not exist for other players. This is by no means a regular sports bettor.

Hope this helps.

TrustDice Team