Topic: Trustdice.win , UPD: TRUSTDICE SCAM, 2138$ USDT confiscated. (SOLVED) - page 2. (Read 1730 times)

I'd congratulate you, Laki21000, I hope the amount won, added, and returned to you can be used for good things in your life. For your question about flags, I have to say Pmalek raised a good point, if you have forgave them, then you can withdraw your flag ¹ because, after all, half of the content of the flag is no longer accurate. I'm not sure if it's a good idea, though.

I'll be honest here, most of this post was written yesterday and I was ready to post it at that time. However, I decided to take it to my sleep and see if I got a better insight in the morning and be as objective as I can.

By the sunrise, I spare my time on the arbitrators' site to read all of the cases raised against TrustDice and found that on CasinoGuru there are 7 complains raised against them --one of them is yours. Three of it were sportsbet related and can't be solved by CG and thus we didn't know the outcome of it, although one from them moved his case to AG --see below. Two other cases I had to side with TD, they provide a strong evidence of multi-acc abuse on one case and the other one was... let's say the other party is kinda... impulsive and it's out of TD's hand, not TD's responsibility. The last two, though, solved after those user escalated this case to CG. In one of them, the CG representative even judged that TD is more-or-less abusing their rules to work in their favor.

AskGambler has 10 cases for TD --one of them is Poika5's-- 5 of them are resolved with evidences. One was marked as rejected because the accuser didn't provide KYC after the specified time, although it might worth mentioning that their case was hung without response for one month, reopened and reopened again after that, for $627, which understandably too much hassle and bothersome for some people. One was marked as unresolved because TD stopped replying the case, it's about taking bets from restricted country --I'd urge you all to read the case, it's very interesting-- two were resolved after they escalated their case to AG, where in one case TD just refunded the money without any explanation after they can't provide evidence for their counter accusation, much like Laki's case, it was sportsbetting case as well. And the other one was the one I mentioned above, the user who moved to AG after CG didn't handle sportsbetting. His funds were claimed to be frozen because of "an error".

From these cases, I think it's quite unbiased to say that although TD made several good job on gambling platform and were wronged by multi acc abuser, their sportsbet division is very poor and they are easy on throwing ban without proper evidences to back up their action --not to mention that one case where they throw their rules to justify their action-- and only lift their ban after their user raises some noise.

Thus, no matter what's the outcome of Poika5's case --whether they being wronged by TD too or they wronged TD-- I think there still a lot of non-newbie on this forum who looked for betting platform, and if your type-2 flag removed, there will be no warning for these higher-than-newbie members, there's a chance they fall into this inconvenient situation. I will stil honor your decision, though, and I'll withdraw my support for the flag if you asked me to.

While for Poika5's newbie flag, in tone with Pmalek, I think it should stay to warn anyone in the future about this issue and the possible unpleasant scenarios if they decided to sign up to TrustDice.

Regardless of what happens with the flags, my tag will stay for the same reason I based my opinion for the type-1 flag: I can't trust this site or the guys behind them.

First, the fact that they insisted on something without trying to consider the evidences or pleas made by their user. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason they finally solved your problem simply because you created a huge noise which ultimately made them ended up with two active flags and several tags from DT.

Second, although I am not sure if the decision is fully made by the representative of the site, the-guy-behind-this-post, without other people from the site knowing or if their "higher ups" knows and fully supported these action, but it's proven that they love to play sneaky by editing their first reply where existing people are less likely to notice and twist words into a narrative that works to their favor for those who read just the first few posts: they're the good guy who tried to solve problem, but the case became unconstructive because some people twisted our words.

It is not a good characteristic of a trusted site. If they really honest and determined to solve issues, they'll address these concern directly and in the open, by replying to the last post --not to mention quote statements properly and correctly instead of a tailored snippets that drives a completely different meaning-- and addressed these "unconstructive people" with strong evidences.

Third, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but part of this sentence extremely disturbs me:


I can't see any other reason behind the unecessary extra words "from Croatia" than an attempt of implying a message, "we know where you're from, we know who you are". And this is really really worrying. Does this reflect on how they address people who has a conflict of interest with them, be it in the present or the future? A threat? I'm open for a less-paranoid suggestions on what's the meaning behind those unnecessary addition.

Oh, Coinbox1, hot news for you, you guessed wrong. You're not the first who tried to publicly doxx me and failed miserably though, IIRC somene once said I'm from India --or was it Pakistan?-- it's fun, but you're not welcome to try again.


You're joking, right? The OP was not even late betting, they're wrongly accused.

---

¹can we actually delete a flag we raised? I thought there's this warning at the bottom of the flag page about "flag can not be deleted"?

since this whole case is positively resolved, I am withdrawing my support for flags. I will leave neutral feedback with a reference to this thread just as a reminder.

I absolutely agree with Pmalek here, it seems that the resolution of this case was greatly helped by the pressure of the forum community, but that is not the right way to run a business. We do not know if there are other similar cases, but they are not presented here.
I hope that you have learned a valuable lesson from everything and that you will correct this in the future.

Appreciate that you did the right thing. Past posting is something that all books have to deal with. In the end, you did the right thing and I re-instated your grade.

edit- the only thing that I don't like is that you should have bitten your tongue rather than give a warning. It still looks like an accusation. When a player makes a live bet, it's always close to a change, thus called "live" instead of "pregame". Put a player on a longer delay if you fear his live bets. Don't give us a warning or threat.

That's right. Players can get banned or limited for it. And that's ok as long as the player actually did that. But you never provided one single example of a late bet from this person. Still, you took his money and made him look guilty and decided to play with words about who said what. The one example you posted, you failed miserably because according to the data that Poika5 found on a 3rd-party site, it was a legit bet placed 8-9 mins before the end of the match. 

Who knows how many other players were and maybe still are treated in the same way, but they simply give up and don't scream as loud as Laki did. Maybe the $2k he withdrew is money confiscated from other innocent players in the period since this thread was started.

Get your shit together. You will have much more success long-term running a legit operation than being scammy.   

I discussed with both our Customer Support and Risk Management and your account is all set back to normal right now. With that being said, for full disclosure, if your bet limit might be modified by our sports provider, which is beyond our control.

Without knowing what will happen in the future, it would be irresponsible of me to give you a guarantee that you will never be accused of another violation in the future. To this end, I strongly recommend that you carefully read our T&C and Sports Betting rules.

You obviously have ample reasons to take your money and leave, which we fully understand. But when you do it, we equally recommend you to carefully read through their T&C and other rules. Late betting bans aren't uncommon in sports books. So are arbitrage betting bans.


Best regards,
TrustDice Team

I didn't notice any errors. I mentioned two days ago in my previous reply that I followed the markets and the events as they were happening for a basketball match from Bulgaria. With 3 mins left in the last quarter, it was still possible to bet. But when the clock came close to 2 mins left, all the markets were closed and betting was no longer possible.

That's great news. I would personally take my business elsewhere if something like that happened to me. The bigger odds aren't worth it if nasty things like what you just experienced can happen again in the future. We also have Poika5 with an accusation against the casino whose case I will try to take a look at when I can.

Sportsbet.io has a good sportsbook. Instant deposits, bet boosters, promotions, the occasional free bets, and various betting competitions for the Bitcointalk community that you can take a look at in Games & Rounds.

Regarding the flags. I think the newbie flag (the first one you opened) should remain. It serves as a warning to everyone about what can happen at Trustdice.
You can remove support for the second one (Type 2 - violation of an agreement) if you have forgiven the injustice and financial damage done to you. You are the victim, so it's your decision. If you have forgiven the act, you need to remove support for the flag. If the victim is satisfied with the outcome, those who support the flag should according to my understanding be as well because we weren't personally affected.

The only other (alleged) victim we know of is Poika5. But since I am personally not familiar with what happened between him and the casino and would need to independently check his case and claims, I feel it's wrong and biased of me to keep supporting the flag. However, he could and still should. Or he can create his own flag just like you and see if he will get enough support for it.

I am very happy that you admitted your mistakes after 2 weeks of hard discussion, however give me a couple of answers to my questions, will you progress on the feedback question from the players? they won’t block again with similar extremely gross errors in the study of violations, because for example, I will also bet for my own pleasure and you decide to block me again, only on other points of your rules (I noticed that you block users only if they get a plus)



@Poika5 , Did you receive your payment?

Wow, thats really surprising, great job Laki! You were really persistent and fought for your money.

This whole thing has been so confusing, Coinbox1 needs to publicly apologize at the very least.

Duelbits, same sports provider, reduced juice.

Your welcome, mate.


Oh, Coinbox1 edited his first post.


Love it, thanks Coinbox.


EDIT:

Not yet, but looks promising.

I received a payment from TrustDice, they also gave me 100 usdt as a bonus, however, I would like to ask the bitcointalk community if it is worth removing the flag and all the negative ratings from the casino?, also let @Poika5 know if the money was withdrawn.

I also have a lot of questions from Trustdice, why there was no feedback, why such an incompetent person works as a marketer, and will my account be active further? but will they tell me to make a deposit again in this casino...
UPD: The support operator said that I have been cleared and can continue to play on the site, but for some reason I have doubts and they can also block me in the future, only for a different reason, tell me the correct path of events, the employees and business building at Trustdice are terrible, but the software and the line for sports is good, where is it better to turn?


P.S. Thank you, @Poika5 @Pmalek, @holydarkness for your work, and for your independent assessment of events, I have no merit to support and thank you. However, behind the monitor, you will take my kind words to yourself.



https://imgur.com/a/BXbKaF8

TD didn't show that OP past posted. What is support the flag?

I will add my support for the flag as well. From what I am reading in this thread, coinbox1 really is unaware of how live betting works. Most site disable bets on a game in the last 2 minutes, so really it is impossible for a person to late bet or whatever. Now if Trustdice has an error in their site, then it's on them to fix it instead of trying to accuse users of cheating without providing real proof.

Really sad to see it come to this.

Here's the largest loss that I remember on past posts.



Trustdice - why do you want to penalize players instead of just refund if past posted? A lot times books cause a past post because of delays accepting live wagers.

If you want to see an actual tipoff time, it can be found on the gamebook at NBA.com. But the case above is a simple case of past posting. If Trustdice wants to accuse the player of past posting, they have to prove it.



Example of start times

The bets were accepted. The player wagered and won. But when he wanted to withdraw, they asked him for KYC, froze his account, and confiscated his balance. After that they started claiming he was late betting without showing a single case to back up those claims.

They made a ridiculous claim that the player made a wager at odds that shouldn't have been possible for a long time. It's interesting that when you take a look at a live match from their sportsbook, everything works great. The odds are adjusted in time, and if there is a technical problem, the markets get closed when needed, etc. I am watching a live match from Bulgaria right now. There is less than 3 mins left on the clock in the 4th quarter, and there are many open markets still that you can bet on. But when OP placed a bet with 8-9 mins left on the clock, that's considered "late betting". 

A tad bit wrong, in a worse sense for trustdice. By your description, they simply made "an error" in coding, and they could --should-- just admit the mistake and fix the problem, and everything is good as new.

Unfortunately, in these whole 3 fun pages of banter and lovely conversation, Coinbox1 accused OP of utilizing a bug and placed bet at the end of the game, where facts given by everybody else on this thread shows otherwise, that the bet was placed about the early minutes of quarter 4 of NBA game, still very far from "near-the-end". They still insist on it and when Pmalek suggested them to provide other case --because they said OP did this several times-- they went ballistic and attacked Pmalek.


This decision they made, although shows a good gesture, is rather unfortunate. They decided to simply be "a generous platform" and "re-consider" your case after every evidence proven them to be wrong, indirectly --and reluctantly-- said that they've wrongly accuse you, let alone to reach through a very more private way to mitigate the crisis they elevated themselves, most likely to hide from public exposure of their foul play for baseless judgement, IMO this is clearly not a good gesture.

I was really expecting them to provide a concrete evidence by another case that you've indeed wronged them and their accusation is true. We'll probably in a very different situation if they stand by their accusation of multiple late bet and could provide the supporting evidences. Instead, this happens. And by these actions of theirs, I stand by my opinion that their behavior is detrimental, both the marketing-guy-behind-this-post who act improfessionally and the solution center of the platform themselves who made this case more difficult than it needed to. Thanks to both of them, there's no guarantee that anyone playing on their platform won't face similar treatment in the future.

I supported the flag.

I supported the flag.
I didn't read the whole thread, TL;DR, but as far as I understand, OP's betting was not accepted because he placed bets late or even after the end of the match. did I understand the essence of the whole problem correctly?
isn't that the casino's fault? if according to their rules it is not allowed, why is it possible at all?
I would say that the fault lies only with the casino and its bad coding, they had to foresee it and prevent such potential abuse. they should admit a mistake in the system and if they don't want it to happen again, make corrections and disable such bets.

The flag is OK. It just needs support from at least 3 DT members before it becomes visible for everyone.

They take a player's money, announce that he/she is a cheater, and then tell the player to wait while they investigate whether or not they cheated. Excellent customer relations. Great job Trustdice.

Trustdice - I don't go outside of the rating's guide that much but I am this time since I was sent a PM. You should pay both these players. Logically, if these players were past posting, they would be betting a lot more. Of course, this isn't proof and can be ignored but it is a red flag. If you have solid proof that they past posted, then cancel those bets and show timestamps. Even if you cancel those bets, confiscating money should not be done. I'll never make a downgrade on one or two complaints where there's some grey area, but this is a simple clear cut case. Prove the past bets. Return the other money immediately.  I lowered you to "D-" until further notice.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/1-ratings-of-bitcoin-sportsbooks-since-2014-kyc-rankings-bonuses-scam-accus-717790


P.S. If further information comes out on these cases, please make me aware.

Trustdice casino wrote me an email, wait again, okay, let's wait. There are no specific dates, either.

https://imgur.com/a/pFGb9Bf

You've correctly raised a type-2 flag, a flag for breach of implied or casual agreement, if that's what you meant to raise. You can edit your opening post and add the link to that post so readers would be able to find it easier --and support/oppose if they want to. As Pmalek said, you can also ask for other DT member's help to judge your case and then give their support to the flag on this thread.

I'll wait for couple of days, still giving Coinbox1 a benefit of doubts, to see if they'll give another case that shows you're indeed late-betting and their counter-accusation would then proven to be true. I am aware that they're online couple times after they edited their first reply on this post, they can even made a post on their thread, so they should've been aware about the updates on this thread or --at the very least, if they deliberately ignored this thread, which rather a big frown-- aware that their account is now tagged with negative trust. If they still refused to clear this issue despite their claim on their edited post and, by that, implicitly admitted that their counter-accusation is invalid and thus they're wrongfully freeze an honest user and denied your rights, they'll kinda forced it out of my hand and I won't have other option but to support the flag.