try your chess skills for bitcoin - page 10.

newb4now

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Quote from: u9y42 on July 11, 2015, 07:24:48 AM

Quote from: tsoPANos on July 11, 2015, 07:13:07 AM

Cheating needs to be addressed.Everyone could use his external chess program to beat the other.
I think blitz games would be harder to exploit. We need blitz chess.

I think it would really have to be Lightning Chess for people to have trouble using bots. Wink

But no, that wouldn't work either - not only would players still use some form of bot to copy moves directly to their chess engine (without the need for human intervention), but the computer program would still be better than the human players, despite the time constraints.

Lightning chess would only work if the board size, piece dimensions, etc were randomized and changed often to avoid automatic screen capture by a computer.

Wolframite

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Quote from: --Encrypted-- on July 11, 2015, 07:29:36 AM

this won't work. I think 90% of the participants will try to cheat using bots or an external chess game. this will always happen on any online chess games.

I agree with you and all others, chess sites are easy to exploit and players will surely cheat to earn bitcoin by using external chess game

--Encrypted--

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hee-ho.

this won't work. I think 90% of the participants will try to cheat using bots or an external chess game. this will always happen on any online chess games.

u9y42

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Quote from: tsoPANos on July 11, 2015, 07:13:07 AM

Cheating needs to be addressed.Everyone could use his external chess program to beat the other.
I think blitz games would be harder to exploit. We need blitz chess.

I think it would really have to be Lightning Chess for people to have trouble using bots. Wink

But no, that wouldn't work either - not only would players still use some form of bot to copy moves directly to their chess engine (without the need for human intervention), but the computer program would still be better than the human players, despite the time constraints.

tsoPANos

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In math we trust.

Cheating needs to be addressed.Everyone could use his external chess program to beat the other.
I think blitz games would be harder to exploit. We need blitz chess.

bajing

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The most Professional Cryptocurrency Casino

i like play chess i'm waiting your challenge. anyone try play the tournament?

Wolframite

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Your site looks great!!! And congrats for coming up with a new idea ..... i love chess and i look forward to earn few bitcoin by playing chess on your site

aniglo

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@OldHiall LuckyBit

Quote from: rooch99 on July 08, 2015, 02:53:20 PM

play chess for bitcoins, better then betting
chess4coin.com

oh realy?i love chess, but I've never played for money/btc... i must try:)

edit: yupi!! i have account. very interesting idea;)

jambola2

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Quote from: u9y42 on July 11, 2015, 01:48:40 AM

*snip*

Quote from: rooch99 on July 10, 2015, 07:52:37 AM

i am sure it will be not easy for some one to run a bot on this site. i wll keep capture each match and will analyisis players moves, and will make sign up system we hard so it will be not easy for a bot to log in in this site

I'm not sure if increasing the difficulty of signing up, and other such measures, is a good idea - they might end up making the site less useable, while not really stopping players from using their favorite chess program to cheat. But, perhaps analyzing player moves as you mentioned, maybe along the lines of what XinXan previously suggested, might help somewhat.

That's quite problematic too, to be honest. If it is not done in realtime, as in the analysis will be done after the match (as the "i will keep capture each match" suggests), withdrawals will be delayed. This will be bad for any site, especially if they are new.
Chess.com is a rather famous site. How do they do it ? They wait for reports from players of cheating. After a player is reported for cheating, their plays will be monitored and analysed. Not one game, over multiple games.
An online chess website that involves money can't afford to let a cheater poach their regular players, but they cannot also risk banning players that are just good at chess.
Also, banning won't mean much. On chess.com, there are very few tournaments with prize money, and those are open to only established players. Most of whom pay between 5-14$ a month for various tiers of membership. On the other hand, losing an account after breaking even wouldn't mean much. Boot up a proxy, start cheating again.

TL;DR: Stopping cheating is hard when there is no monetary incentive. When there is money involved though, it's pretty near impossible.

u9y42

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Quote from: alani123 on July 10, 2015, 03:48:39 AM

You're not wrong. The specific comment I was replying to was just me pointing out how silly the term "chess bot" was in my opinion. Sure, there is software that when combined with strong hardware (among other things mentioned later) is close to impossible to beat by humans. But an important aspect thing about them is that they have access to many opening books and tablebases. Stockfish for example (the highest ranking chess AI) even has a voluntary "botnet" of people donating processing power for it to learn.

Hmm, yes, the term "chess bot" might seem to be a bit misleading; although to be fair, it's still accurate: chess programs aren't endowing the computer with any greater understanding of how chess is played - it's still mostly an automation task, where the computer is using brute force to check all the possible outcomes in any given situation (access to typical opening and closing moves doesn't change this; they're just another tool).

But more importantly, as I previously alluded to, and as Revelation Machine (now that's an original nickname Tongue

) pointed out as well, you don't really need strong hardware, or any other elaborate schemes, in order to have an already (close to) unbeatable computer opponent; a simple smart phone will do nowadays - in other words, anyone has access to them.

Quote from: rooch99 on July 10, 2015, 07:52:37 AM

i am sure it will be not easy for some one to run a bot on this site. i wll keep capture each match and will analyisis players moves, and will make sign up system we hard so it will be not easy for a bot to log in in this site

I'm not sure if increasing the difficulty of signing up, and other such measures, is a good idea - they might end up making the site less useable, while not really stopping players from using their favorite chess program to cheat. But, perhaps analyzing player moves as you mentioned, maybe along the lines of what XinXan previously suggested, might help somewhat.

rooch99

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i am sure it will be not easy for some one to run a bot on this site. i wll keep capture each match and will analyisis players moves, and will make sign up system we hard so it will be not easy for a bot to log in in this site

alani123

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: u9y42 on July 09, 2015, 10:08:22 AM

Quote from: alani123 on July 08, 2015, 05:07:27 PM

Oh come on. An avid chess player could beat even the most powerful bot. I'm pretty sure that chess is one of the hardest board games to "exploit" with automation. [...]

Tell that to Kasparov - where have you been these last 20 years? Tongue

Chess is a perfect information game (that is, a game where both players have full knowledge of the complete state of the game), with relatively few movement options - perfect for computers to play, and win, against humans. Furthermore, their capabilities only improve with each passing year, alongside processing power and changes in programming techniques.

You're not wrong. The specific comment I was replying to was just me pointing out how silly the term "chess bot" was in my opinion. Sure, there is software that when combined with strong hardware (among other things mentioned later) is close to impossible to beat by humans. But an important aspect thing about them is that they have access to many opening books and tablebases. Stockfish for example (the highest ranking chess AI) even has a voluntary "botnet" of people donating processing power for it to learn.

Phix

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Its working? I really want to play with bitcoins hehe Grin

Challenge me anyone..

XinXan

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Quote from: jambola2 on July 09, 2015, 10:24:58 AM

Quote from: u9y42 on July 09, 2015, 10:08:22 AM

Quote from: alani123 on July 08, 2015, 05:07:27 PM

Oh come on. An avid chess player could beat even the most powerful bot. I'm pretty sure that chess is one of the hardest board games to "exploit" with automation. [...]

Tell that to Kasparov - where have you been these last 20 years? Tongue

Chess is a perfect information game (that is, a game where both players have full knowledge of the complete state of the game), with relatively few movement options - perfect for computers to play, and win, against humans. Furthermore, their capabilities only improve with each passing year, alongside processing power and changes in programming techniques.

Assuming they make their own engine, and most of the gambling is rather small, I doubt anyone will spend the effort to develop a bot for this.
Anyways, I see this as completely fair. I can imagine that every single person competing would just end up downloading a chess AI and manually copying in the moves.
It's going to be about who can google "free chess software" better.

There are ''counter chess engines'' out there in many famous chess websites that can detect you using a powerful engine by looking at your moves and you will get caught, believe me, of course its not infallible but it's better than nothing.

PenguinFire

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That Darn Cat

The thing with chess and online gambling is it boils down to bots playing. That has always been the main concern with online chess for money. I agree this is a problem. The only solution I know of is to have a community that validates users for not using bots. Even this is not a end all solution as one could just play legit for some games and then cheat.

Revelation Machine

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Quote from: alani123 on July 08, 2015, 05:07:27 PM

Oh come on. An avid chess player could beat even the most powerful bot. I'm pretty sure that chess is one of the hardest board games to "exploit" with automation.

Maybe in the 1950s, but in 2015 people are sneaking phones with bots on them into chess competitions and DESTROYING. In fact, in giving an interview about the most recent incident (in which a grandmaster was caught using an iphone with chess software on it), the chief arbiter of the USCC said:

SIEGEL: I read one claim that the difference between cheating at chess and, say, taking a performance-enhancing drug for baseball or whatever other game is that somebody of virtually no talent given access to a computer could defeat a grandmaster nowadays. Is that true?

RICH: That's right. It would be like an amateur baseball player putting on a bionic suit to hit the ball 500 feet out and hit a homerun every time; it is that equivalent of aid.

http://www.npr.org/2015/04/15/399937742/chess-grandmaster-caught-in-high-tech-cheating-scheme

So, I'm pretty sure that you don't know what you're talking about.

FanEagle

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Also,why I asked for checkers,or waitvwait I have an idea! What about Othello or Reversi as people usually call it? Please please please!
You'll probably even find more partners that will be able to request you to become their allies.
Returning at why I chose checkers?I'm bad at chess.

bitbaby

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I just registered at your and its designed pretty well, I like sober graphics and although my fears are same as others I'll see if I can play some low staked games, so even if I end up losing to bots I won't lose anything substantial.

The idea of online chess with gambling don't go well together, if it did you would have seen it implemented already and it goes for all skilled based online games.

Any sign up promotions to test the site? If so, my nick is same there.

u9y42

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Quote from: alani123 on July 09, 2015, 03:30:42 PM

Take a look at this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_number

Have you ever played chess? How come you think botting is a good idea?

I think you're missing the point alani123. The idea isn't that chess is a simple and trivial game, for which a computer can easily come up with a perfect strategy; the idea is that a computer is much better at searching for the ideal course of action, many moves in advance, when compared to a human - even when compared to someone at a grandmaster level, let alone a casual player on the internet. In fact, we're now at a point that even a handheld device, a simple mobile phone, equipped with the latest chess engine, can outperform human players in chess tournaments.

But don't take my word for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human-computer_chess_matches.

Edit: seems jambola2 beat me to it. Tongue

jambola2

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Quote from: alani123 on July 09, 2015, 03:30:42 PM

Take a look at this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_number

Have you ever played chess? How come you think botting is a good idea?

Chess software doesn't figure out the best possible move, as the figure you have shown assumes.
It simply needs to figure out a really good move. It usually looks 10-20 moves ahead, analysing different moves and looking at what effects it would have in the long run.
This is done by comparing the value lost or gained by each move in the equivalent of pawns, eventually figuring out which move will gain the most in positional or material advantage.
Sure, it can't look forward for the entire game, but it still can play better than any person can.

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