UK Gambling Commission says UK based sites need a license! - page 7.

Wolf0

member

Activity: 81

Merit: 1002

It was only the wind.

Quote from: ButterflySammy on October 10, 2013, 06:58:50 AM

Quote from: dragonkid on October 10, 2013, 06:47:35 AM

Quote from: b!z on October 10, 2013, 06:25:35 AM

This is good information, thank you for sharing it. Hopefully some sites will get a license and comply with the laws to avoid legal problems.

Alternatively host the gambling site offshore. Wink

Careful - UK based developers may still need a developer license and operators may still need a personal/organisational license if they reside within the UK.

If you ever try to cash out your share of your sites takings and the bank reports it upstream or if you were to record it faithfully on your tax return, if you were discovered to be operating without proper licensing even through an offshore website, you could still face the same fines and jail time.

Rather than take legal advice from people on a forum - which let's be honest is why we ended up with so many sites before one of them even consulted the law, get a lawyer rather than thinking you or someone else with no legal experience whatsoever have found a loophole.

This is why you don't cash out your share of the BTC, you don't send it to a bank, and you leave it off your tax return. You SPEND it. You can buy cash right off of BitMit, or buy something which holds its value well for a short time and sell it.

dragonkid

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: Wolf0 on October 12, 2013, 04:58:23 AM

Quote from: ButterflySammy on October 10, 2013, 06:58:50 AM

Quote from: dragonkid on October 10, 2013, 06:47:35 AM

Quote from: b!z on October 10, 2013, 06:25:35 AM

This is good information, thank you for sharing it. Hopefully some sites will get a license and comply with the laws to avoid legal problems.

Alternatively host the gambling site offshore. Wink

Careful - UK based developers may still need a developer license and operators may still need a personal/organisational license if they reside within the UK.

If you ever try to cash out your share of your sites takings and the bank reports it upstream or if you were to record it faithfully on your tax return, if you were discovered to be operating without proper licensing even through an offshore website, you could still face the same fines and jail time.

Rather than take legal advice from people on a forum - which let's be honest is why we ended up with so many sites before one of them even consulted the law, get a lawyer rather than thinking you or someone else with no legal experience whatsoever have found a loophole.

This is why you don't cash out your share of the BTC, you don't send it to a bank, and you leave it off your tax return. You SPEND it. You can buy cash right off of BitMit, or buy something which holds its value well for a short time and sell it.

Yeah, you don't need to cash them out into your bank account, then you don't need to pay tax return. That is the point of doing it offshore. I know a lot of people who work abroad. And they will put those money in their offshore account which don't pay tax.

Also if you really need money, just go to localbitcoins.com exchange only what you need and spend it.

monsterer

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1002

Quote from: ButterflySammy on October 11, 2013, 04:33:39 AM

Maybe the guy on the internet is wrong. Maybe they changed their mind since he asked.

I spoke to them this week, they don't issue licenses "for Bitcoin" but they do think Bitcoin is covered by existing gambling laws.

Feel free to email or call yourself.

Did you look into costs?

ButterflySammy

newbie

Activity: 7

Merit: 0

Quote from: monsterer on October 10, 2013, 01:45:12 PM

This guy says he phoned them 4 months ago and they said they don't issue gambling licences for bitcoin:

http://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/7rxz1-hi-i-seen-bitcoin-deposit-withdrawal-gambling.html

Maybe the guy on the internet is wrong. Maybe they changed their mind since he asked.

I spoke to them this week, they don't issue licenses "for Bitcoin" but they do think Bitcoin is covered by existing gambling laws.

Feel free to email or call yourself.

Dabs

legendary

Activity: 3416

Merit: 1912

The Concierge of Crypto

How about anonymous developers who live in unknown places on earth, but virtually guaranteed to be outside the UK. (Or there is no proof they are in the UK.)

monsterer

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1002

This guy says he phoned them 4 months ago and they said they don't issue gambling licences for bitcoin:

http://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/7rxz1-hi-i-seen-bitcoin-deposit-withdrawal-gambling.html

ButterflySammy

newbie

Activity: 7

Merit: 0

Quote from: darkmule on October 10, 2013, 08:46:02 AM

Quote from: ButterflySammy on October 10, 2013, 05:16:11 AM

If you run or are plan on running such a site - you need to lawyer up or start filling in the paperwork. I had a look at the fees, it is not cheap, it is not pretty.

This is probably true in most places. However, there isn't just a bureaucratic issue, which would be bad enough. Often the "regulatory" bodies for gambling are utterly corrupt. It's not for nothing that one of the largest corruption scandals in recent memory involved Indian casinos, which basically involved extorting bribes from casinos to shut their competitors down, while playing both sides of the fence. I.e. "Christian" crook Ralph Reed would have his "Christian" group attack casinos, but not the ones who were paying the cartel.

darkmule

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1005

Quote from: ButterflySammy on October 10, 2013, 05:16:11 AM

If you run or are plan on running such a site - you need to lawyer up or start filling in the paperwork. I had a look at the fees, it is not cheap, it is not pretty.

This is probably true in most places. However, there isn't just a bureaucratic issue, which would be bad enough. Often the "regulatory" bodies for gambling are utterly corrupt. It's not for nothing that one of the largest corruption scandals in recent memory involved Indian casinos, which basically involved extorting bribes from casinos to shut their competitors down, while playing both sides of the fence. I.e. "Christian" crook Ralph Reed would have his "Christian" group attack casinos, but not the ones who were paying the cartel.

ButterflySammy

newbie

Activity: 7

Merit: 0

Quote from: dragonkid on October 10, 2013, 06:47:35 AM

Quote from: b!z on October 10, 2013, 06:25:35 AM

This is good information, thank you for sharing it. Hopefully some sites will get a license and comply with the laws to avoid legal problems.

Alternatively host the gambling site offshore. Wink

Careful - UK based developers may still need a developer license and operators may still need a personal/organisational license if they reside within the UK.

If you ever try to cash out your share of your sites takings and the bank reports it upstream or if you were to record it faithfully on your tax return, if you were discovered to be operating without proper licensing even through an offshore website, you could still face the same fines and jail time.

Rather than take legal advice from people on a forum - which let's be honest is why we ended up with so many sites before one of them even consulted the law, get a lawyer rather than thinking you or someone else with no legal experience whatsoever have found a loophole.

dragonkid

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: b!z on October 10, 2013, 06:25:35 AM

This is good information, thank you for sharing it. Hopefully some sites will get a license and comply with the laws to avoid legal problems.

Alternatively host the gambling site offshore. Wink

b!z

legendary

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1010

This is good information, thank you for sharing it. Hopefully some sites will get a license and comply with the laws to avoid legal problems.

ButterflySammy

newbie

Activity: 7

Merit: 0

I see a lot of people here saying that Bitcoin Gambling sites in the UK do not need to be licensed because "Bitcoin is not money".

The Gambling Commission takes a different view:

Quote

Dear ButterflySammy,

Thank you for your email.

You mention that HMRC doesn’t recognise Bitcoin as currency, which is fine.

However, when it comes to gambling, the Gambling Act 2005 defines gambling as the ability to win prizes of money, or money’s worth.

While bitcoin can’t be classed as money, per se, it certainly counts as money’s worth.

The Gambling Commission receives a number of requests from people seeking advice or approval in setting up a business. We do not provide legal advice, including advice concerning the correct interpretation of legislation. Therefore, we cannot advise you regarding the viability or legality of a business idea. It is up to you to obtain your own business or legal advice.

Kind regards,

Licensing Officer

There you have it - Bitcoin is "Money's Worth" even if it isn't "Money" therefor any site operating in or from the UK still needs a license.

If you are betting with or investing in a UK based site you need to be aware that they could be shutdown and take your money with them.

If you run or are plan on running such a site - you need to lawyer up or start filling in the paperwork. I had a look at the fees, it is not cheap, it is not pretty.

Topic: UK Gambling Commission says UK based sites need a license! - page 7. (Read 11930 times)