Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike - page 9.

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 11, 2014, 08:56:21 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 08:43:26 AM

I heard her say that Russia should pay for its actions in respect to Ukraine. Actually, Germany supported sanctions, that's what ultimately matters. You may say that it is less hostile towards Russia and I would probably agree with that, but to say that it is friendly is like swearing black is white... Roll Eyes

During the past 5-6 years, Germany has supported Russia on many controversial issues. The construction of the Nord Stream pipeline wouldn't have been possible without their support. At that time, it was fiercely opposed by the US, Ukraine, Poland and the UK

Oh, and now Germany happily resells the Russian gas that it gets through Nord Stream. Is it a new way of making friends? Grin

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 08:43:26 AM

I heard her say that Russia should pay for its actions in respect to Ukraine. Actually, Germany supported sanctions, that's what ultimately matters. You may say that it is less hostile towards Russia and I would probably agree with that, but to say that it is friendly is like swearing black is white... Roll Eyes

During the past 5-6 years, Germany has supported Russia on many controversial issues. The construction of the Nord Stream pipeline wouldn't have been possible without their support. At that time, it was fiercely opposed by the US, Ukraine, Poland and the UK.

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 08:43:26 AM

Friends are what friends do, not what they say! Cool

Not possible when you are under foreign military occupation. There are tens of thousands of American troops stationed in Germany. Germany is even home to dozens of American nuclear weapons, on which it does not have any say. Even the German gold reserves are with the Americans.

spazzdla

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Quote from: john641 on April 06, 2014, 12:33:34 AM

Does Ukraine has any choice? It looks like Putin is holding the strings.

This...

NO we will not pay more!

Okay no gas..

........... Well pay more Sad

............

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 11, 2014, 08:34:00 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 08:15:04 AM

Friendly nations?! Am I missing something? Didn't this (Germany) nation in the person of Frau Merkel just recently show firm support for sanctions against Russia? Shocked

Surely not what you would expect from a friend... Cool

Frau Merkel doesn't have anything against Russia. Some of the top German officials actually voiced their opposition to the US-backed sanctions. Even Merkel agreed to those sanctions only half-heartedly (under pressure from the US), as she knew that any such sanction would do more harm to the German companies than to the Russian ones.

In the European Union, Germany is one of Russia's best friends. Also, check the German public opinion polls on the Ukraine crisis.

Here, an example of the anti-sanction mood prevailing in Germany:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/germany-to-play-central-but-expensive-role-in-sanctions-against-russia-a-959019.html

Another one:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10820180/Ukraine-crisis-Russia-sanctions-would-hurt-Germanys-growth.html

I heard her say that Russia should pay for its actions in respect to Ukraine. Actually, Germany supported sanctions, that's what ultimately matters. You may say that it is less hostile towards Russia and I would probably agree with that, but to say that it is friendly is like swearing black is white... Roll Eyes

Friends are what friends do, not what they say! Cool

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 08:15:04 AM

Friendly nations?! Am I missing something? Didn't this (Germany) nation in the person of Frau Merkel just recently show firm support for sanctions against Russia? Shocked

Surely not what you would expect from a friend... Cool

Frau Merkel doesn't have anything against Russia. Some of the top German officials actually voiced their opposition to the US-backed sanctions. Even Merkel agreed to those sanctions only half-heartedly (under pressure from the US), as she knew that any such sanction would do more harm to the German companies than to the Russian ones.

In the European Union, Germany is one of Russia's best friends. Also, check the German public opinion polls on the Ukraine crisis.

Here, an example of the anti-sanction mood prevailing in Germany:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/germany-to-play-central-but-expensive-role-in-sanctions-against-russia-a-959019.html

Another one:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10820180/Ukraine-crisis-Russia-sanctions-would-hurt-Germanys-growth.html

niothor

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Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 08:30:10 AM

Quote from: niothor on June 11, 2014, 08:23:09 AM

Also , I would love how Russians are backing down on threatening to cut the gas if the payments are not made.

Quote

Novak said that Moscow is willing to recalculate Kiev’s massive gas debts for April and May, which will bump their arrears down from $2.353 billion instead of $3 billion. This sum must be paid in full by June 26, Novak said. The first tranche payment of $500 million is due June 16, and the remaining $1.8 billion is due on June 26.

The first deadline was 1st of June for the whole debt.
Now the debt is reduced by 25% and the deadline extended by one month for a first tranche..

In the end they won't see a penny

I would suggest that Russian citizens stop paying for gas too until and unless Ukraine pays down all its debts... Grin

Do that:).

Let me see a boycott for a government controlled company because of the actions of the government.
And that in Russia.

Wonder how protesters will be treated there...

deisik

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Quote from: niothor on June 11, 2014, 08:23:09 AM

Also , I would love how Russians are backing down on threatening to cut the gas if the payments are not made.

Quote

Novak said that Moscow is willing to recalculate Kiev’s massive gas debts for April and May, which will bump their arrears down from $2.353 billion instead of $3 billion. This sum must be paid in full by June 26, Novak said. The first tranche payment of $500 million is due June 16, and the remaining $1.8 billion is due on June 26.

The first deadline was 1st of June for the whole debt.
Now the debt is reduced by 25% and the deadline extended by one month for a first tranche..

In the end they won't see a penny

I would suggest that Russian citizens stop paying for gas too until and unless Ukraine pays down all its debts (or goes bankrupt)... Grin

niothor

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Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 08:15:04 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 11, 2014, 08:04:37 AM

No progress in sight.

Ukraine’s demand for gas price below $385 leads to political deadlock - Putin

http://rt.com/business/165332-putin-gas-ukraine-discount

Ukraine wants gas for free. That is the problem. Why should they be given gas at throw away prices, when friendly nations (such as Germany) are paying as much as $420 per 1,000 cubic meter?

Friendly nations?! Am I missing something? Didn't this (Germany) nation in the person of Frau Merkel just recently show firm support for sanctions against Russia? Shocked

Surely not what you would expect from a friend... Cool

That's one good laugh

.
Bryan calling Germany a friendly country .

But now seriously , the title is misleading...

Quote

Russia is ready to give Ukraine this $100 discount for one year, Russia’s Energy Minister Aleksandr Novak said at the meeting.

They are offering a one year discount after which the price will be 485$.

Also , I would love how Russians are backing down on threatening to cut the gas if the payments are not made.

Quote

Novak said that Moscow is willing to recalculate Kiev’s massive gas debts for April and May, which will bump their arrears down from $2.353 billion instead of $3 billion. This sum must be paid in full by June 26, Novak said. The first tranche payment of $500 million is due June 16, and the remaining $1.8 billion is due on June 26.

The first deadline was 1st of June for the whole debt.
Now the debt is reduced by 25% and the deadline extended by one month for a first tranche..

In the end they won't see a penny

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 11, 2014, 08:04:37 AM

No progress in sight.

Ukraine’s demand for gas price below $385 leads to political deadlock - Putin

http://rt.com/business/165332-putin-gas-ukraine-discount

Ukraine wants gas for free. That is the problem. Why should they be given gas at throw away prices, when friendly nations (such as Germany) are paying as much as $420 per 1,000 cubic meter?

Friendly nations?! Am I missing something? Didn't this (Germany) nation in the person of Frau Merkel just recently show firm support for sanctions against Russia? Shocked

Surely not what you would expect from a friend... Cool

bryant.coleman

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No progress in sight.

Ukraine’s demand for gas price below $385 leads to political deadlock - Putin

http://rt.com/business/165332-putin-gas-ukraine-discount

Ukraine wants gas for free. That is the problem. Why should they be given gas at throw away prices, when friendly nations (such as Germany) are paying as much as $420 per 1,000 cubic meter?

niothor

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Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 03:38:02 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 11, 2014, 03:28:42 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 02:47:40 AM

So the problem with changing the trade currency from dollar to euro actually boils down to persuading China to accept euros instead of dollars... Cool

I don't know much about the general trade. But it has been already decided (I had posted this in some other thread a few days ago) that the gas exports to Russia will be paid in RenMinBi. Russia has nothing to gain from this, but still it will weaken the US Dollar.

Yeah, I've heard rumors, but what is that RenMinBi? Not that I'm actually curious about what it is at the moment, but rather that it is not dollar somewhere underneath in the train of transactions with it... Roll Eyes

And you probably meant gas exports to China? Wink

Probably the only currency in the world that is manipulated by it's government in terms of value more that the us dollar.

Although the Chinese have not pegged the cny to the dollars for the last decade they still force it to float only on a narrow margin.

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 11, 2014, 04:16:22 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 03:38:02 AM

Yeah, I've heard rumors, but what is that RenMinBi?

The Chinese Yuan is known in the international market as RenMinBi. The Chinese want to elevate it as an international currency for trade, but so far they have found few willing adopters (other than Zimbabwe and Myanmar).

So the dollar nominated international trade market seems to be breaking down to local currency markets. But the question remains, i.e. is this the decay and fall of the dollar as we know it or is it an evolution of it into something more (more uncanny and horrific)? Cool

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 03:38:02 AM

Yeah, I've heard rumors, but what is that RenMinBi?

The Chinese Yuan is known in the international market as RenMinBi. The Chinese want to elevate it as an international currency for trade, but so far they have found few willing adopters (other than Zimbabwe and Myanmar).

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 11, 2014, 03:28:42 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 02:47:40 AM

So the problem with changing the trade currency from dollar to euro actually boils down to persuading China to accept euros instead of dollars... Cool

I don't know much about the general trade. But it has been already decided (I had posted this in some other thread a few days ago) that the gas exports to Russia will be paid in RenMinBi. Russia has nothing to gain from this, but still it will weaken the US Dollar.

Yeah, I've heard rumors, but what is that RenMinBi? Not that I'm actually curious about what it is at the moment, but rather that it is not dollar somewhere underneath in the train of transactions with it... Roll Eyes

And you probably meant gas exports to China? Wink

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: deisik on June 11, 2014, 02:47:40 AM

So the problem with changing the trade currency from dollar to euro actually boils down to persuading China to accept euros instead of dollars... Cool

I don't know much about the general trade. But it has been already decided (I had posted this in some other thread a few days ago) that the gas exports to China will be paid in RenMinBi. Russia has nothing to gain from this, but still it will weaken the US Dollar.

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 10, 2014, 09:24:35 PM

Quote from: Balthazar on June 10, 2014, 06:25:26 PM

Unfortunately, EUR is a toilet paper just like USD. So it's a choice between two scam currencies. Roll Eyes

If the main purpose is to weaken the US Dollar, then doing the trade in Euro is a good option. Also, a large part of the Russian trade is done with the European Union nations (especially Germany). I don't see the advantage of using US Dollar here.

If we look at the recent official data for 2013 (in Russian here), we will see that the five main trading partners in the foreign trade with Russia are China 10.6 (10.5% in 2012), the Netherlands 9.2% (10.0%), Germany 8.9% (8.8%), Italy 6.4% (5.2%) and Ukraine 4.6% (5.5%). So the problem with changing the trade currency from dollar to euro actually boils down to persuading China to accept euros instead of dollars... Cool

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Balthazar on June 10, 2014, 06:25:26 PM

Unfortunately, EUR is a toilet paper just like USD. So it's a choice between two scam currencies. Roll Eyes

If the main purpose is to weaken the US Dollar, then doing the trade in Euro is a good option. Also, a large part of the Russian trade is done with the European Union nations (especially Germany). I don't see the advantage of using US Dollar here.

Balthazar

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Unfortunately, EUR is a toilet paper just like USD. So it's a choice between two scam currencies. Roll Eyes

Chef Ramsay

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Also interesting

Quote

The Russians are actually making a move against the petrodollar. It appears that they are quite serious about their de-dollarization strategy. The largest natural gas producer on the planet, Gazprom, has signed agreements with some of their biggest customers to switch payments for natural gas from U.S. dollars to euros. And Gazprom would have never done this without the full approval of the Russian government, because the Russian government holds a majority stake in Gazprom. There hasn't been a word about this from the big mainstream news networks in the United States, but this is huge. When you are talking about Gazprom, you are talking about a company that is absolutely massive. It is one of the largest companies in the entire world and it makes up 8 percent of Russian GDP all by itself. It holds 18 percent of the natural gas reserves of the entire planet, and it is also a very large oil producer. So for Gazprom to make a move like this is extremely significant.

When Barack Obama decided to slap some meaningless economic sanctions on Russia a while back, he probably figured that the world would forget about them after a few news cycles.

But the Russians do not forget, and they certainly do not forgive.

At this point the Russians are turning their back on the United States, and that includes the U.S. dollar.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/russia-is-doing-it-russia-is-actually-abandoning-the-dollar
Take that Uncle Sam

bryant.coleman

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This is interesting:

Lithuania competition watchdog fines Gazprom $48 mln

http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFL5N0OR2JU20140610?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0

Topic: Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike - page 9. (Read 26501 times)