Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike - page 13.

Nemo1024

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To take a pause from blablahblah trolling (because he insists on going in circles over the issues that already were addressed on multiple occasions)...

Europe seems to be willing to shoot itself in the foot:
European Commission proposes to temporarily halt construction of the South Stream:
http://ria.ru/economy/20140603/1010507243.html

In English:
Gazprom ready to complete South Stream without international finance
http://rt.com/business/163360-gazprom-construct-south-stream/

They are pushing Bulgarians to stop the construction until all the documents have been revised to be in accordance with EU directives.

Quote

Bulgarian Energy Minister Dragomir Stoynev complained that his country "remains hostage to the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. It is unacceptable that some countries should benefit directly from Russian natural gas, while other should become hostages to this conflict,'' he added.

Bulgaria has a month to answer the EU concerns, with a team of EU experts expected to arrive in the country on June 13 to sort out remaining problems.

Things are developing quickly:

Bulgaria to build South Steam despite Commission warnings
http://www.euractiv.com/sections/energy/bulgaria-build-south-steam-despite-commission-warnings-302572

And EU already decided how much Russia will charge for the gas to Ukraine:

Ukraine gas: EU Energy Commissioner says Russia will charge $350-$380
http://rt.com/business/163212-ukraine-russia-gas-lawsuits/

deisik

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: deisik on June 03, 2014, 09:56:25 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

^^ More Russian propaganda.
Stolen gas is accounted for, in at least 2 ways:

1) Debt, which Russia requires the Ukraine to pay off later, with interest.
2) Adjusted pricing.

A third option could be tit-for-tat theft or confiscation. For example, Russia annexing Crimea. I guess that that would make all the accounts even, don't you agree?

Russia didn't annex Crimea, get your facts straight... Cool

Oh I'm sorry, they "peacefully reclaimed it", and the tanks and submarines were just plastic props.

Russia didn't reclaim it. Neither peacefully nor forcibly. After a coup d'etat in Kiev, Crimea declared independence from Ukraine (after all, Crimea was an autonomous republic), and then held a referendum on accession to Russia. You may like it or not, you may agree or disagree with this, but de jure you can't blame Russia of annexing or reclaiming Crimea... Cool

deisik

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: deisik on June 03, 2014, 07:23:29 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 03, 2014, 07:13:44 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 03, 2014, 03:56:49 AM

Do you think Ukraine can last that long, at least as we know it (i.e. prone to stealing gas and blackmailing Gazprom)? I'm afraid they will have difficulty surviving the coming winter... Roll Eyes

Needs to be seen. No one will give them gas for free. So the only option left for them is to increase the domestic gas prices by many times, which will ruin the Ukrainian heavy industries.

This will also impoverish Ukrainian population (directly through gas prices and indirectly through the loss of income) and we will see coming many more Maidans pretty soon... Cool

^^ More Russian propaganda.
Stolen gas is accounted for, in at least 2 ways:

1) Debt, which Russia requires the Ukraine to pay off later, with interest.
2) Adjusted pricing.

A third option could be tit-for-tat theft or confiscation. For example, Russia annexing Crimea. I guess that that would make all the accounts even, don't you agree?

Russia didn't annex Crimea, get your facts straight... Cool

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 03, 2014, 07:13:44 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 03, 2014, 03:56:49 AM

Do you think Ukraine can last that long, at least as we know it (i.e. prone to stealing gas and blackmailing Gazprom)? I'm afraid they will have difficulty surviving the coming winter... Roll Eyes

Needs to be seen. No one will give them gas for free. So the only option left for them is to increase the domestic gas prices by many times, which will ruin the Ukrainian heavy industries.

This will also impoverish Ukrainian population (directly through gas prices and indirectly through the loss of income) and we will see coming many more Maidans pretty soon... Cool

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: deisik on June 03, 2014, 03:56:49 AM

Do you think Ukraine can last that long, at least as we know it (i.e. prone to stealing gas and blackmailing Gazprom)? I'm afraid they will have difficulty surviving the coming winter... Roll Eyes

Needs to be seen. No one will give them gas for free. So the only option left for them is to increase the domestic gas prices by many times, which will ruin the Ukrainian heavy industries.

deisik

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Quote from: Nemo1024 on June 03, 2014, 06:21:04 AM

Two news items on the gas front:

Yatsenjuk urges EU to block construction of the South Stream, saying that transit through Ukraine is very secure and guaranteed:
http://www.fontanka.ru/2014/06/03/090/

The more they show themselves as idiots, the better! Cool

Nemo1024

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Two news items on the gas front:

Yatsenjuk urges EU to block construction of the South Stream, saying that transit through Ukraine is very secure and guaranteed:
http://www.fontanka.ru/2014/06/03/090/
Yeah, right... He may as well ask Merkel to cut her wrists...

Gazprom is reducing the volume of gas deliveries to Europe and Turkey:
http://www.bfm.ru/news/260226

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 02, 2014, 11:50:41 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 02, 2014, 02:12:55 PM

As I see it, after the South Stream construction is over, the Ukrainian gas transport system will interest no one (if Ukraine will still exist by then)... Cool

South Stream construction will take a lot of time. The first phase is expected to be completed in 2018, almost four years from now. Until then, Ukraine can blackmail the Gazprom.

Do you think Ukraine can last that long, at least as we know it (i.e. prone to stealing gas and blackmailing Gazprom)? I'm afraid they will have difficulty surviving the coming winter... Roll Eyes

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: deisik on June 02, 2014, 02:12:55 PM

As I see it, after the South Stream construction is over, the Ukrainian gas transport system will interest no one (if Ukraine will still exist by then)... Cool

South Stream construction will take a lot of time. The first phase is expected to be completed in 2018, almost four years from now. Until then, Ukraine can blackmail the Gazprom.

deisik

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Quote from: Nemo1024 on June 02, 2014, 01:49:45 PM

Miller reports that Ukraine and Russia agreed not to send the case to Stockholm appeal court:
http://1prime.ru/INDUSTRY/20140602/786020005.html

The next step is dependent on paying for the gas received until November December last year, and for paying 500 million dollars for April-May, according to the Berlin agreement of last Friday.

Ukraine also seems to go along with the gas price suggested by the EU in the range of 350-380-390 dollars (whatever that triple range means).

Miller also noted that no one can cancel the construction of south Stream as an alternative for gas deliveries to Europe.

As I see it, after the South Stream construction is over, the Ukrainian gas transport system will interest no one (if Ukraine will still exist by then)... Cool

bryant.coleman

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Some compromise on sight:

Russia’s Gazprom ready to reduce gas price for Ukraine not only through lower export duty

http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/734304

Nemo1024

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Miller reports that Ukraine and Russia agreed not to send the case to Stockholm appeal court:
http://1prime.ru/INDUSTRY/20140602/786020005.html

The next step is dependent on paying for the gas received until November December last year, and for paying 500 million dollars for April-May, according to the Berlin agreement of last Friday.

Ukraine also seems to go along with the gas price suggested by the EU in the range of 350-380-390 dollars (whatever that triple range means).

Miller also noted that no one can cancel the construction of south Stream as an alternative for gas deliveries to Europe.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: deisik on June 02, 2014, 08:55:17 AM

Don't panic, let's see how Ukraine will be paying its debts first. The rush begins! Grin

The Chocolate King and the gas princess have no intention of paying the gas bill. But I think they will be forced to do so, under pressure from the EU member nations. The winter is only a few months away. No one in Europe wants Russia to cut the gas supplies.

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 02, 2014, 08:41:04 AM

Quote from: Nemo1024 on June 02, 2014, 07:54:51 AM

Bugger, Gazprom is giving in. Miller just stated that the price of gas for Ukraine may be reduced to $385.5, provided all debt is paid back in full. The price cut can be achieved through reduction in export taxation - basically Russia will be subsidising the gas to Ukraine again!

This is outrageous. Loyal Gazprom customers such as Germany are paying at the rate of around $420 per thousand cubic meters, while a hostile nation like Ukraine will be getting gas at much lower rates. Really unfortunate situation. But I think Alexei Miller is desperate to maintain the gas flows to his customers in Central and Eastern Europe.

The Germans will be mad at Miller. Especially since he is an ethnic German. Grin

Don't panic, let's see how Ukraine will be paying its debts first. The rush begins! Grin

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Nemo1024 on June 02, 2014, 07:54:51 AM

Bugger, Gazprom is giving in. Miller just stated that the price of gas for Ukraine may be reduced to $385.5, provided all debt is paid back in full. The price cut can be achieved through reduction in export taxation - basically Russia will be subsidising the gas to Ukraine again!

This is outrageous. Loyal Gazprom customers such as Germany are paying at the rate of around $420 per thousand cubic meters, while a hostile nation like Ukraine will be getting gas at much lower rates. Really unfortunate situation. But I think Alexei Miller is desperate to maintain the gas flows to his customers in Central and Eastern Europe.

The Germans will be mad at Miller. Especially since he is an ethnic German. Grin

deisik

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Quote from: Nemo1024 on June 02, 2014, 07:54:51 AM

Bugger, Gazprom is giving in. Miller just stated that the price of gas for Ukraine may be reduced to $385.5, provided all debt is paid back in full. The price cut can be achieved through reduction in export taxation - basically Russia will be subsidising the gas to Ukraine again!
http://www.interfax.ru/business/379166

The problem is whether Ukraine is able to pay all those debts. We probably don't know a thing that Miller knows, so it might be a sure bet for Gazprom to promise anything to Ukraine... Cool

Nemo1024

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That does it. I am going to our local supermarket and state a fair price for a kilogram of meat. These supermarket ownwers have recently been completely unfair, almost doubling the price over the last 5 years!

In other news, Ukraine said that the fair price it should pay to Gazprom is a fixed amount of $268.5 for 1000m3, and they are sending the case with this number to Stockholm appeal court.

http://lenta.ru/news/2014/06/02/gaz2/

Can someone close the valves already?

There is no such thing as "fair price". Fair prices ended with the end of socialism. Now it's the market price. Yo either pay what the seller asks or you find another seller.

Bugger, Gazprom is giving in. Miller just stated that the price of gas for Ukraine may be reduced to $385.5, provided all debt is paid back in full. The price cut can be achieved through reduction in export taxation - basically Russia will be subsidising the gas to Ukraine again!
http://www.interfax.ru/business/379166

Nemo1024

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The first portion of the money have arrived at Gazprom's account, so the deadline for pre-payment has been pushed back to the 7th of June.
http://itar-tass.com/ekonomika/1231844?utm_medium=rss20

What Gazprom is saying: Keep on paying back, don't stop here.

The full debt repayment is still expected.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: deisik on May 31, 2014, 11:23:41 AM

These are not computers that are ~~to be fired off~~ responsible for the delay. All bank transactions are checked by bank clerks which actually have a weekend...

The Ukrainians always make the payments on weekends. Normally people work on weekdays and take rest on weekends. The Ukrainians (I mean the Kiev junta) never work on the weekdays and do that in the weekends. Grin

deisik

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Quote from: Nemo1024 on May 31, 2014, 10:54:50 AM

The gas flow will not be stopped just now, in the hopes that the money will materialise on Gasprom's account on Monday:
http://finance.rambler.ru/news/economics/146293324.html

I never stop to be amazed that the computers take a week-end off from processing transactions...

These are not computers that are ~~to be fired off~~ responsible for the delay. All bank transactions are checked by bank clerks which actually have a weekend... Cool

But forum never sleeps! Grin

Topic: Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike - page 13. (Read 26501 times)