Topic: U.S. Contemplating Isolating Russia from SWIFT Banking System - page 4. (Read 839 times)

Who run away? Oh, are you maybe talking about 1989?
The US has occupied Afghanistan in two months and controlled it for 20 years, they decided to pull back and that's it, can you give an example of a battle where the Talibans have defeated the US army in the past year to trigger that panic?

But to add more flavor to this crappy whataboutism, you have to admit it's quite funny to talk about the failure of the US in Afghanistan when Russia invaded the same country without even declaring war and with more personal and more thanks than the alies had in the Gulf war and Irak war combined.
Yeah, let's pitchfork those evil Americans, just with a  small delay, till any of you manage to tell me why was Afghanistan invaded by Russia in the first place, the event that triggered all this mess. But you will need to look for that answer in some other places, not russiatoday or old Pravda editions.


Ironic that this cold didn't work exactly when the Russian Empire needed it the most. I really need to check some Russian history books, do they miss world war 1 or 1904, or the Crimean war? 

Seriously, guys, we're talking about a gas station with an economy smaller than any of the top 3 states of the US alone, you have to be completely brainwashed in some KGB dungeon to even believe for a second somebody that matter 0.0000001% on this talent would choose to side with Russia in a complete economic war between those two. Do you think China would throw away a 30 trillion market for who? Russia is not making in trade with China even 10% of the Chinese-US balances, how could they even buy with their 1 trillion economy 500 billion of goods? Let's count the EU and there are another 400 billion. China needs to sell stuff for money and Russia has anything but money, except some territories than what a surprise, they've grabbed from China.
The outcome is pretty obvious, it's not even debatable at this point.

Are you sure you understand what we are talking about? We are talking about the standard for fast bank transfers. AFAIK there are not that many systems out there. Perhaps US has its own, UK has certainly his own and there may be other, but SWIFT is widely used and it is used in Russia as of now for certain.

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2021/12/18/the-hidden-costs-of-cutting-russia-off-from-swift

This is behind a paywall so I will quote some for you:


Changing this will equate to a decoupling of the systems, giving China a chance:

You are a little mistaken - Russia does not need a war with NATO or the United States. The Russian Federation is well aware that in a non-nuclear war, the Russian army will be defeated quickly enough, and the current government will be physically destroyed, or it will be seized, undergo a shameful trial and will be destroyed as international criminals. A nuclear war is unnecessary for both the United States and the Russian Federation. The USA does not want to perish, the generals of Russia do not want to destroy their children and grandchildren, as well as their calm, rich pension in the same USA, where they have been withdrawing their money all their lives
Russia needs the opportunity to realize its imperial ambitions, to "collect" back the countries that were once occupied by the Moscow empire, in order to show the "greatness" to its poor population that has no future. Why does the Russian Federation have so much attention to Ukraine? Because Ukraine tried to escape from the "embrace" of Russia and start living like civilized countries. For Russia, this is like death - if Ukraine succeeds (and everyone is talking about it now), the Kremlin ghouls will have to explain in front of 100+ million angry, poorer, aging population how it turns out that in Ukraine, where there are no such resources as in Russia, people live better than in the "richest Russia". This means that we will have to tell you that all the money was stolen by Putin's friends, and the population can cut social services, cut budgets for medicine and education ...
And about the "imperial ambitions" - if you read the Kremlin ultimatum - there are often indicated the territories that the Russian Federation needs - "the countries that were previously part of the USSR."

Using an outdated system backed by nothing but faith and a military as a weapon is not going to end well for the United States.  Sanctions reveal to the world that the US does not, in fact, operate in a free and fair market.

The rise of nuclear weapons make a direct confrontation between the US and Russia unthinkable, and if that was not enough biological weapons are also at disposal of both countries which are even worst than nuclear weapons, however what we could see are proxy wars, wars in which an ally of one of those countries wears down the other if they engage in a military conflict, and we could also see the use of economic sanctions against certain individuals or the whole country in case the diplomatic relationships deteriorate even more.

They will probably look to pushing out their own CBDC much quicker than anticipated as a result of this.

This is one of the reasons why fiat is flawed, though.

All of the control to restrict access to a particular sector of the monetary system resides within the hands of one central entity, and it's just not going to be effective that way in the long run.

On top of CBDCs, hopefully Russia looks to expand their presence in the decentralized crypto space as well.

If the Russian government continues to behave aggressively, threatening the use of weapons to the whole world, then the US government will be forced to fight with them. As for Afghanistan, the Americans have been there for 20 years. They trained and armed government troops there, but they cannot fight forever instead of them. Therefore, they left there, doing everything possible for the government troops to fight the Taliban further. It is not their fault that the Afghan government troops have shown cowardice.

It is a mistake - the Kremlin criminals will not destroy Europe and the United States - the places where their money, savings are kept, where all the wealth stolen in Russia is taken away. They will not destroy countries - where are their villas, planes and sports cars. Those countries - where their children live and conduct business, where their mistresses and lovers live, where their women, favorite dogs and places of rest, where they constantly fly. They would rather wipe Russian Voronezh off the face of the earth than, for example, Los Angeles

The question is not whether the Americans are able to fight the Russians. The real question is whether they can afford such a conflict. Look at what happened in Afghanistan, which is a third world country of 30 million people. After spending trillions of USD in funds, the Americans ran back to their homeland with their tails wagging between their legs. The same thing happened in Syria, Iraq and Libya as well. And here we are talking about an adversary who is stronger by the magnitude of 100x or 200x.

If that is what they are trying to do then that is a big mistake, Russia has nuclear weapons and regardless of whatever technological advancements the US may have fighting an aggression war against Russia is a huge mistake, Empires have gone down to die on the cold of Russia, in a way it makes sense as when an Empire is in crisis historically it tries to find an enemy to unite their people and try to gain an economic advantage, but it is too dangerous to do this against Russia.

In Russia, the fantasy on the theme "China is our brotherly people who also wants to destroy the United States" is very fashionable. China, of course, is "that little thing", but China has never been a "brother" of Russia, moreover, China has absolutely clear plans on the territory of Russia from the Urals to Kamchatka. Moreover, for China, Russia, as an adversary, is a more convenient target. And it seems that now China is implementing the principle of "Calmly watch the flow of the river, and someday you will see the corpse of your enemy float along the river." China is waiting for the weakening of Russia. Russia for China is a resource appendage, the USA is a consumer of the product of the global market of China. With whom in your China is it more profitable to be partners, albeit with a different worldview?

I keep telling you and others, that's not how SWIFT works.
You think for it like some moneygram or westernunion or visa service when it's not!

European countries would pay Russia for gas the same way, send the money to a bank account and that's all, the problem will still be in Russia's court since in order to use that money fast and settle other debts with other banks he has no longer the link in the SWIFT systems.
You can't force a client to pay via SWIFT, there is no money being transferred in his system, it's the bank that receives the transfer that uses it in interbanking connection, so the banks that receive the payments can use SPFS, that doesn't help them at all if the banks in Europe who would receive those payments for other goods don't!

So it's not like a shop no longer accepting Visa or Mastercard, it's more like the push notification that your merchant's account has received the x in payment and you can pay your supplier y for the next batch of merchandise.

As of now, there are just 400 institutions part of it as written in Wikipedia which countries involve are China, India and Iran.
System for Transfer of Financial Messages (SPFS) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPFS

And because Russia is also a supplier of gas and coal, they can live to demand the use of their own system which I think SWIFT will not hurt them much in the end.

Nope, many banks in Russia are perfectly able to use SWIFT, particularly for their banking operations with Europe. These flows of capital are really the bread an butter of many Russian bankers and cannot be replaced by "their own system" which only would work between themselves and will not be accepted by the rest of the banks. Cutting Rusia from SWIFT would deal a blow to their operations in the West, which means that they would eventually reach an agreement with China and their satellites. This is not where you would want to go for a solid economy for sure.

Yeah ... I get it ... you just have absolutely no control over the situation. Ok, it's not difficult for me, I will take a digression into history! And every reader will be able to make sure and check every word I said By the way, this is the difference between propaganda and the truth - the truth is easy to check and make sure of justice

So - when the USSR died and the republics got a chance for freedom, after many decades of occupation, Ukraine was one of the few republics that had .. What? That's right - Nuclear Weapons. If memory serves, it was even included in the top three countries in terms of the number of nuclear weapons. On December 5, 1994, she signed the "Memorandum on Security Assurances in Connection with Ukraine's Accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons."
So, 27 years ago, on January 10, 1994, Ukraine, adhering to the concept of peaceful coexistence and development, decided to abandon nuclear weapons, and transfer ALL stocks of nuclear weapons to one of the countries that, in Ukraine's opinion, will be able to provide safe storage and maintenance (although I personally think that it was a mistake). Yes, it was the RSFSR, that was the name of the territory that is now called the Russian Federation. And since Ukraine showed such a gesture of peacefulness, and actually deprived itself of the strongest weapon, which weakened its security, 3 countries - Russia, the USA and Great Britain, together with Ukraine, signed the above Memorandum. And here about "friction" everything was very clearly spelled out: the signatories (USA, Britain, Russia), according to "clause 2 of the Memorandum, confirmed their obligations to refrain from the threat of force or its use against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever will not be used against Ukraine; " (the text of the memorandum is publicly available)
So. Russia SIGNED an agreement in which it OBLIGED to respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine, not to use ANY weapon against Ukraine, to ensure POLITICAL INDEPENDENCE. AND ? In February 2014 - the introduction of troops (no need for self-defense, then Putin himself said that it was a special operation that he personally developed / supervised), the seizure of state power objects, military units, the murder of Ukrainian servicemen. After that, the shelling of the border zones of Ukraine from the territory of the Russian Federation, the introduction of a regular army into the eastern regions, the organization of terrorist cesspools of the DPR / LPR, support by regular military personnel (there are a lot of videos with interrogations of those), the supply of weapons, terrorist attacks, including the destruction of a civilian aircraft by a Russian weapons on the territory of Ukraine and much more ... This is "friction" for you as you put it Putin is trying to become a "new fürrer", heading a new movement of RASHISM and creating a new empire. But he is a pitiful parody of Hitler, because he was even afraid to openly declare war on the obviously weaker Ukraine, and is waging a vile, cowardly, terrorist / hybrid war. That is why, according to the memorandum, Ukraine turned to other signatories for help, and in connection with the violation of an international agreement - to other leaders of the UN member states and new structures such as the EU.

PS What negotiations with terrorists and aggressors? Only the destruction of the enemy on your territory! The war can be ended in only two ways - either lose or win, there are no other options!

PS
1. You did not continue the logical chain and did not describe the influence of the United States, see above
2. Well, another problem - tell us how the situation looks like in your unique reality?

Russia is trying to bully Ukraine to see if US and NATO will leave their neighbor alone from been enlisted as a NATO member, Putin is respected for making good his threat but this time he may not really invade Ukraine except he has some other plans around the US and her allies sanctions.

Russia is doing some crazy stuff and this is actually not going to affect just Russia and Ukraine but it would also affect other countries as well and take everyone closer to the world war !! Therefore everyone is being super careful about it. There are troops already being deployed from both that UK and the US as well, this would actually cause probelms for the long term. Therefore excluding them from SWIFT system would be a good move for the time being but it can also cause probelms, might increase the agressive conflicts as well. I think USA needs to make peace agreements instead of putting the troops in so soon and the Ukraine have to even get further steps to increase their security for some mishaps.

The friction between Ukraine and Russia is to be resolved between the two countries, it's the two that should have the negotiations. If Ukraine is going to bring the US, that violates thier agreement as well that NATO will not have any expansion in the region.

They all have thier own version of a factual story, they are even saying that most of the people in Ukraine are more favorable on Russia's side than those on Poland's side. There is division in the country so they say. It's much like the Taiwan case where most Taiwanese prefer to reunite with China.

Tell me - are there events in your life that are not caused by the manifestation of the end of money in the United States or any processes in the United States? )))

And a simple question for a mental health check - explain the logical sequence:
In the United States, money is running out -> war is needed -> Russia violates all international agreements captures Ukrainian Crimea -> after that it introduces its troops into the eastern regions of Ukraine -> Russia unleashes a terrorist protracted war in Ukraine -> This is all supported by total lies and pumping fakes through everything Russian information channels -> Along the borders of Ukraine, to a depth of 300 km, 2 belts of strike forces have been assembled, with a total number of about 250,000 soldiers () -> Now we are here (And here you explain what profit the USA gets, how Russia was led and started a war, and what does Ukraine have to do with it?)
I'm really looking forward to it!

PS And please tell us - how does China call the entire region from Transbaikalia to Khabarovsk? This is about "Russia with China"

Lightning can be used instead of SWIFT.

That's what Strike is doing.

I can see that maybe fiat part could be tricky, but instead of a direct conversion, you could always go through am intermediary fiat.

Money cannot be stopped with Bitcoin in my opinion.