Topic: U.S. Contemplating Isolating Russia from SWIFT Banking System - page 5. (Read 839 times)

Sorry, but now, either intentionally or out of ignorance, you are carrying informational nonsense!
Yanukovych only negotiated that Ukraine allows Russia to prolong the agreement on the lease of certain territories for the needs of the Russian Navy, But no more!
I will also add that according to this agreement, the Russian Federation was obliged to coordinate any exit of the Russian military personnel outside the territory of the leased bases - no free movement outside the leased zones. And yet - in Ukraine there is a PARLIAMENTARY-presidential power, and the president cannot make any decisions unilaterally. Everything I have said can be checked in the legislation of Ukraine and open agreements of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine.

And about the "militants" - without organization, funding, direct support, including by the regular troops of the Russian Federation, nothing would have happened. I have been working with the eastern region for many years, and Donetsk "I know like the back of my hand", and I know that since 2004-2006 there has already been a pumping of pro-Russian ideology. population, Russian Cossacks, Russian propagandists. You can’t even imagine what kind of nonsense you pumped them up. But this is exactly how the propaganda of the Russian Federation works - the search for marginalized, degrading individuals, brainwashing, hammering into the head the image of the enemy who is to blame for all his troubles, and of course these enemies became pro-Ukrainian citizens, and of course the degrading population of Donbas was hammered into the head that they were the ones created all the values ​​in Ukraine and fed the rest of the country, although in reality they were one of the most subsidized and plundered regions.

First, SWIFT is not American.
Second, it's not countries that use it but financial institutions.
Third, it's rather a settlement service, so no, a company that wants to sell something will don't give a damn or two about SWIFT, it's the banks that are not connected to that will feel the pain since it will take months for things done in a day.

So in order for A to have a settlement with B, B needs an account over at A or the other way around.
Even if Russia would implement an alternative it would still require Russian banks to have accounts overseas which, defeats the whole purpose of it that.


Look how supportive are the nations from the old Warsaw Pact and you're going to get a better picture of why support is close to zero.


FTFY.
It's not the US who is preparing for a war in Ukraine, is not the US that has invaded Ukraine and taken land for it and it's not the US threatening with war. Out of money? It's not the US that has defaulted twice in the last 3 decades.
As for weapons selling:


Look who's talking about making profits from weapons.
Let's throw in the fact that the US GDP is 10 times bigger and voila! Russia actually exports 3 times more weapons per capita than the US.
What a peace-loving nation.

The only real problem happening right now which is causing these tensions is America running out of money and they now need to start a war somewhere, with someone. Or at least make people believe there will be a war so that they can more easily sell weapons. Russia is not a fool and knows this. Thats why Russia is not reacting the way that America hoped they would.

Even if in Russia SWIFT Banking is isolated that will only give rise to new banking systems or stronger China/Russia relationships by fortifying with China's own banking systems

What versions from different sides can we talk about in the current situation? Ukraine did not attack Russia and did not seize its territory. It was Russia that attacked Ukraine and occupied its Crimean peninsula and part of the eastern territories adjacent to Russia. Putin's justification for these actions is that he does not want Ukraine to join the European Union and NATO. Is this a serious excuse for capturing a neighboring state and killing thousands of Ukrainians in the 21st century? Any independent state has the right to choose its own path of development and build its foreign policy, including deciding which political sides to join in order to ensure its security.
Putin behaves like a robber and a bandit on the world stage, and therefore the world community must unite and give him a good rebuff, and disconnecting Russia from the SWIFT international banking system is still a rather mild measure.

I may have learned the news from somewhere which both parties have their own version of the story. Ukraine has its own, Russia has its own, and even the spectator medias who are just watching them will assume things are done under the table. History is more than what we see and hear but the more important thing is preventing the destruction because once a shot is fired there is no turning back and so much at stake for Ukraine. The country will be crushed between the two powerful militias.

I agree. This is not the first time. The first time it was with the USSR, after he sent troops to Afghanistan. Then, for the first time, sanctions were introduced against the USSR. In 1979 it began. In 1991, the USSR collapsed like a house of cards. The reason is the complete degradation of the resource, technologically backward, economy. Neither the largest army, nor nuclear weapons, nor the largest army of tanks - nothing came in handy or saved. The picture is completely identical now. Russia in 2014 - the introduction of troops into Ukraine. Sanctions are introduced. The economy begins to collapse, the budget tends to zero, and tension grows inside. The picture is identical. It will not be long. Most likely, Russia will start a new wave of hostilities against Ukraine. This will be the answer to the West - "since you do not accept our ultimatums, now, we will screw up right here!" But this will be the last war unleashed by Russia, because. this will catalyze its collapse.

There will ALWAYS be people who will support Russia, it could be Russians, it could be people from old soviet lands that are not Russia, it could be leftists from other nations who want to support Russia against USA, and many other types.

The reality is that if you read what happened, you will see what the reality is, do not be kidding yourself thinking that you are the one who see the whole truth in everything neither because you and I know that Russia is the cause of all the trouble there, but we do not know what happened in some other nation, we do not have enough knowledge about every single thing all around the world. So even though we are right about this and cabron is very wrong, we are probably as wrong about something else as him.

Not true, there's actually very little countries that don't have banks that are connected to SWIFT, like North Korea. Even some Iranian banks are still connected to SWIFT. And majority of the world doesn't care if someone gets sanctioned as long as it doesn't affect their own economy.


This is incorrect. Russia is waging a hybrid war on Ukraine since 2014, and they continue sending their weapons, supplies and personnel to fuel conflict in two regions of Eastern Ukraine. So some cyber attacks are really just a tip of the iceberg.

Second, the US is proposing to disconnect Russia from SWIFT in case it launches full scale invasion against Ukraine. This has been brought up because Russia is currently building up troops near Ukrainian borders. The US is not going to do it because of some "recent actions".

The US is digging its own grave with these moves. Soon there will be more countries that don't use SWIFT than that use it. Then those countries will have to agree on some other system. I am not sure if it is going to be based on crypto though. They will probably choose gold but I can't be really sure. Of course that is if, the US keeps banning other countries. Right now the situation isn't that bad but banning Russia would speed up the process a lot.

Russia has been threatened with being disconnected from SWIFT for many years. Even before economic sanctions were imposed. As a result russia has spent many years preparing for SWIFT disconnection.

Recently russia has taken steps to isolate its internet connectivity from the rest of the world. They filed lawsuits against twitter claiming it supports immoral content as a justification for blocking russians from using it. Russia appears to be cutting itself off from the rest of the world, under a policy of isolationism. Disconnection from SWIFT would merely be the latest in a long series of steps which russia has taken in this direction.

As far as I know, russia is similar to north korea in that it does not cooperate with international law enforcement in capturing or extraditing cyber criminals. If that is true, then russia being limited from communicating with certain outside networks could help to reduce internet based crime. Although, if russia's approach resembles the great firewall of china, perhaps these measures will be soft enough to be breached by VPNs and other well publicized methods.

Under President Yanukovych, the lease agreement was only extended to the Russians until the specified year of the base of their Black Sea fleet near Sevastopol. Crimea is a very large peninsula and it was under the jurisdiction of Ukraine.
Before the invasion of Russian troops into Crimea and its occupation by Russia, the inhabitants of Crimea lived there absolutely peacefully. What action movies are you talking about? You completely distort reality. Even after the capture of Crimea by Russia, a relatively peaceful life continues to this day, but the Russian authorities are engaged in the forced russification of the peninsula, oppressing and repressing the indigenous people, the Crimean Tatars, and resettling millions of Russians there.
Now the occupied Crimea peninsula is being turned by Russia into a military base with nuclear weapons.

Didn't Ukraine president Yanukovych have a negotiation between them that the port of Crimea is now controlled by Russia which up to 2042?
After some militants in those areas and minorities including the Russian-speaking Ukrainians there that turned that region into a war zone which is why Russian steps in to make it peaceful.

If Ukraine wants to turn that region into a bigger warzone like your whole country, be a member of NATO and you will see what's left for the country. It's never worth bringing a 3rd party that will take everything instead because after all both country was part of the USSR and your NAVY shares that Crimea sea.

I wonder whether this will lead to greater adoption of blockchain technology and CBDCs sooner within Russia.

Given that they already had CBDCs in development, this should speed up the rollout of these technologies for sure.

I don't think that this ban would actually happen though. There would be too many businesses in Russia exporting to the U.S. affected for it to be worthwhile.

This is where crypto shows how great it can be. USA has the power to take out Russia from a whole banking system, I don't know if they will do it or not but it just shows you that how centralized power causes a lot of issues. With crypto there is no USA that can stop you, if you want to send money from one wallet to another wallet you are free to do that.

So instead of using SWIFT and give people some regulations, if USA bans Russia then Russians could simply send crypto to people in USA which people in USA could deposit into Coinbase and withdraw to their bank account anyway. It could be a bit more expensive or not, depending on the amount, but it would certainly be a lot more freely done so without government getting in your business.

Neither Ukraine nor the United States have ever signed any agreements on Ukraine's commitment not to join NATO or not to accept Ukraine into NATO. But Russia signed the Budapesh Treaty with Ukraine's voluntary renunciation of its nuclear weapons and pledged to respect Ukraine's borders and sovereignty. And just a few years later, it perfidiously violated this treaty by introducing its troops into the territory of Ukraine, including using the fact that Ukraine, brotherly, allowed the Russian armed forces to rent bays on the territory of Ukraine in the Sevastopol region for anchorage of warships and nearby training grounds from all over the necessary infrastructure for this. Therefore, in order to capture the Crimean peninsula, the Russian military had enough to withdraw its troops and equipment previously concentrated there from these leased territories. For this, it was not even necessary to cross the border of Ukraine. Russia used the hospitality and good neighborly relations with Ukraine to suddenly attack it.
Therefore, the introduction of economic sanctions against Russia, including its disconnection from the international SWIFT system, is necessary and advisable, despite the false statements of the Putin regime that no sanctions will harm it.

Well, let's go back to reality and look at this problem in chronological order? In 2014, Ukrainians only wanted to choose a pro-European vector of development. No NATO, no missiles, nothing. But Russia just took the annexed Crimea and partly captured the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. What rockets? What is the threat?
The only threat to Russia is if, next to one of the republics from the former USSR, it suddenly starts to live well and with high quality !!! This will be the end of Russia itself, since the population of this so-called "great country" has lived all their lives as residents of a third world country. And if they suddenly realize that even a country like Ukraine, which does not have "the natural resources of the whole world" like Russia, can prosper, it will simply destroy this power of thieves and criminals. No, Putin is not afraid of missiles, not of missiles ...



A great example of a victim of Russian propaganda )))
The person KNOWS that Russia with the ARMED forces occupied and annexed the Crimea at the Krajina. KNOWS that in the east of Ukraine there are several thousand regular military men who lead local separatists and terrorists. Photo, video, testimony of captured regular army soldiers. But in his "reality" - no, there is no war, moreover, Ukraine is going to attack Russia!

Regarding the fairy tale about "Ukraine's dependence on Russia" - I will answer very simply - after the economic relations were curtailed. Russia, on which Ukraine allegedly depends, has suffered greatly from the fact that ... it depends on Ukraine, Ukrainian technologies Gas turbine engines for new warships - guess who supplied them to Russia? The aviation industry - "great Russia" suddenly lost the ability to serve the fleet of aircraft of the "AN" brand. Can you tell me why? Do you know why Russia, in times of crisis, has to burn excess gas on a global scale? And because Russia does not have the necessary volumes for storing gas, all the largest storage facilities are Ukrainian, and they were used and is being used by "the great Russia on which Ukraine depends" I can continue to give other examples that refute this lie, but it will take a very long time. But, a victim of propaganda, he will not be able to give an example so that some industries that allegedly "depended" on Russia collapse in Ukraine!

Russia is the second top largest exporter of crude oil and the top exporter of natural gas. Given this, I think isolating Russia will do more harm to the SWIF system compared to Russia itself. Russian exports of natural gas and oil are mostly directed towards Europe (with an increasing share flowing nowadays to East Asia). The European countries are dependent on Russia for natural gas and petroleum (their own fields are in perpetual decline). If the SWIFT payment system doesn't work, then Russian exports will be directed to Asia and Europeans will be forced to cut down on their consumption of these commodities (Qatar, US.etc doesn't have enough capacity to replace a large portion of the Russian exports).

I would say that this would create another economical warfare between the two. We also saw USA dealing with Saudi Arabia before getting the price of oil to drop a lot, and I mean A LOT and used it as a weapon against Russia which is known to make a lot of money from oil, gas and many other energy stuff. So all in all I have to say that there is a good case to be made to show that USA is once again trying to lower the power of Russia.

I have to say USA shouldn't worry about Russia anymore, they are still a big nation but they are not enemies of USA all that much if you ask me. I would assume that China is a lot bigger in that sense, we are talking about china becoming world's biggest country, something regarding them would be a lot better for the future of USA.

I see this whole situation as a war between the West and the East in which on the one hand we have the US + UK and all their vassals, and on the other hand the eternal enemies of the West led by Russia, China, Iran and some smaller countries that favor them. However, I do not believe that there can be a real war between these alliances, because the balance of power is such that no one could expect victory - and the costs of such a war would be huge, at a time when the world is suffering from the economic consequences of a pandemic.

In the end, it all comes down to how much money you will invest, and what you can get out of it all - for the US and more than certainly, war is not an option, because as Putin said at his big press conference a few days ago, it is impossible to defeat Russia by military means, but only by some kind of internal political war.

Ukraine has unfortunately found itself between the interests of the West and the East, and Putin has been more than clear that he will not allow NATO expansion to the east - while the West has made it clear that it will not act militarily in the event of an attack. The point is more than clear, Russia can conquer all of Ukraine and most of Europe before Western gentlemen agree on whether NATO should act or not. Like it or not, the EU relies heavily on US help, and the question is whether Americans will die again, as was the case in WW2.

Economic sanctions are something that Russia can live with, especially with the help of China and Iran and some other countries. This is not their first or last time in such a situation.

I've just looked through poll results in Ukraine, and almost half a population (it's a representative sociological poll) believes that the Russian military threat is very real.
I'd also say that the most notable acts of aggression of Russia are probably taking Crimea and supporting the military intervention in the Eastern part of the country, rather than cyberattacks, but ok.
Restricting SWIFT is probably the best economic sanction there can be because Russia depends quite heavily on it, and this will not play well with many influential people as well as the Russian middle-class people, so to speak. If they do invade, I think they'll try to move to an alternative system, and since Russia's big on some products for export, other countries will probably play along and adopt that system for deals with Russia specifically. Also, isn't SWIFT only for international transfers, so all payments inside the country won't be affected? So, while it's big in terms of sanctions, it's probably not devastating for Russia.
As for the war threat, I really hope it wears off or, if it doesn't, that the West won't make the same mistake they made with Hitler, assuming he'd just stop after annexing this or that territory.