["WAIT LIST"] BFL SC Pre-Order Information (Monarch orders too!) - page 28.

squid

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: SgtSpike on October 01, 2012, 10:07:59 AM

Quote from: squid on October 01, 2012, 10:06:23 AM

How can they use firmware to increase speed? Wouldn't this mean that they are simply overclocking it in order to increase the cycles/sec? In order to do that it would require more power.. so then how can say in range of their supposed power specs? I'd love to see a working prototype =/

Picture it this way: They were underclocked before.

Or, to be more accurate, they were originally designed with the newly-release specs in mind, but BFL underestimated them in order to be certain to overdeliver instead of underdeliver.

Has BFL gone on record that this data is from prototypes or is this all theoretical? I haven't seen a single quote by a BFL that this is actual hardware data and not estimation. Even their original message they were very careful to say something along the lines of "the original intent all along was to increase the rate with firmware should a price war occur". Never did they say that this increase was due to optimization after testing physical hardware.

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

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Quote from: squid on October 01, 2012, 10:06:23 AM

How can they use firmware to increase speed? Wouldn't this mean that they are simply overclocking it in order to increase the cycles/sec? In order to do that it would require more power.. so then how can say in range of their supposed power specs? I'd love to see a working prototype =/

Picture it this way: They were underclocked before.

Or, to be more accurate, they were originally designed with the newly-release specs in mind, but BFL underestimated them in order to be certain to overdeliver instead of underdeliver.

squid

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

How can they use firmware to increase speed? Wouldn't this mean that they are simply overclocking it in order to increase the cycles/sec? In order to do that it would require more power.. so then how can say in range of their supposed power specs? I'd love to see a working prototype =/

Korbman

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1001

Quote from: fcmatt on October 01, 2012, 09:42:48 AM

I have my doubts that BFL has the same capabilities as a intel or amd when it comes to making chips run faster or slower
depending on how they came out of the "oven". But I am no expert and I have no idea on their testing capabilities.

Right, but instead of throttling directly on the chip, it's more easily done by regulating how much power the chip gets. Decreasing power is a quick, cheap way of slowing the speed down a notch.

Quote from: fcmatt on October 01, 2012, 09:42:48 AM

Also any software change takes time. Any board revision takes time. Heck.. anything that strays from anything that was not
planned before could cost BFL weeks based on their last performance of getting products delivered. That is the main concern
I would have as a customer.

Definitely a concern of mine as well. Hopefully things will work out for the better this time around.

fcmatt

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Activity: 2072

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Korbman on September 30, 2012, 10:48:53 AM

Quote from: fcmatt on September 30, 2012, 10:19:56 AM

I would be concerned that a product that is supposed to ship so soon can be made faster overnight. Either the chips were made to run that fast or they have not ordered the chips yet. And if made to run that fast why not say so in the first place and tell everyone they will make sure they are stable so the speed could be approx that much.

Or they planned to sell crippled ones and then release better ones....

So confusing.

Chances are it was already a 'fast' chip, but you don't go around updating everyone on it until it's been thoroughly tested. Given they're probably nearing the end of the product development cycle, updating their website (and us on the forums) with "new" technical information seems very plausible.

And having various speed "tiers" for chips seems quite likely as well. Look at what Intel or AMD do for their CPUs...some chips can be exactly the same, but are factory clocked at certain GHz for various price points.

I have my doubts that BFL has the same capabilities as a intel or amd when it comes to making chips run faster or slower
depending on how they came out of the "oven". But I am no expert and I have no idea on their testing capabilities.

Also any software change takes time. Any board revision takes time. Heck.. anything that strays from anything that was not
planned before could cost BFL weeks based on their last performance of getting products delivered. That is the main concern
I would have as a customer.

Korbman

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1001

Quote from: fcmatt on September 30, 2012, 10:19:56 AM

I would be concerned that a product that is supposed to ship so soon can be made faster overnight. Either the chips were made to run that fast or they have not ordered the chips yet. And if made to run that fast why not say so in the first place and tell everyone they will make sure they are stable so the speed could be approx that much.

Or they planned to sell crippled ones and then release better ones....

So confusing.

Chances are it was already a 'fast' chip, but you don't go around updating everyone on it until it's been thoroughly tested. Given they're probably nearing the end of the product development cycle, updating their website (and us on the forums) with "new" technical information seems very plausible.

And having various speed "tiers" for chips seems quite likely as well. Look at what Intel or AMD do for their CPUs...some chips can be exactly the same, but are factory clocked at certain GHz for various price points.

fcmatt

legendary

Activity: 2072

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Korbman on September 30, 2012, 10:10:32 AM

Best news I've seen all day, and super exciting. Assuming the products will meet their speeds when we get them that is. The Mini Rigs are SOOOO fast now! lol

I would be concerned that a product that is supposed to ship so soon can be made faster overnight. Either the chips were made to run that fast or they have not ordered the chips yet. And if made to run that fast why not say so in the first place and tell everyone they will make sure they are stable so the speed could be approx that much.

Or they planned to sell crippled ones and then release better ones....

So confusing.

Korbman

legendary

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1001

Best news I've seen all day, and super exciting. Assuming the products will meet their speeds when we get them that is. The Mini Rigs are SOOOO fast now! lol

squall1066

copper member

Activity: 2310

Merit: 1032

Please see page 1 for important update.

Azrael_PT

full member

Activity: 190

Merit: 100

Par Pari Refertur

09/27/2012 9322 N 1 0 0 - - iztrojan

K1773R

legendary

Activity: 1792

Merit: 1008

/dev/null

Quote

Where am I in line and when will my order ship?
We cannot disclose the number of orders we currently have. Shipping of new units is still anticipated to being late October or early November. We are unable to predict accurate wait times until shipping begins.

butterflyflabs FAQ

Michail1

legendary

Activity: 1499

Merit: 1164

Quote from: xunknownx on September 26, 2012, 09:52:59 PM

if i order a sc single now, aprox when i expect something since i'm going to be at the bottom of the list?

No real way to know other than you will be last to receive it since you are last on the list.

It's all speculation at this point.

xunknownx

member

Activity: 62

Merit: 10

if i order a sc single now, aprox when i expect something since i'm going to be at the bottom of the list?

Jebus

newbie

Activity: 33

Merit: 0

oh man. I know they've changed the wording to "Late October/Early November" but i'm getting pretty excited about this. So close!

K1773R

legendary

Activity: 1792

Merit: 1008

/dev/null

09/26/2012 9333 N 1 0 0 - - K1773R

count me in Wink

2weiX

legendary

Activity: 2058

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this space intentionally left blank

Quote from: crazyates on September 25, 2012, 10:14:21 PM

Quote from: nedbert9 on September 25, 2012, 02:56:21 PM

Those that adopt ASIC sooner, at a higher price point, may be left with longer ROI periods than those that wait to purchase.

That's what I've been thinking for a while. When BFL first announced preorders, the price per BTC was half what it was today. This means you can buy an ASIC for half what it cost you 3 months ago.

that's why I paid in fiat.

Aahzman

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

Your *what* is itchy?

Order 9311 - Submitted/Paid 13:10UTC 26-09-12 - 2 BFLJalapenos - No Trade-in - Aahzman

crazyates

legendary

Activity: 952

Merit: 1000

Quote from: nedbert9 on September 25, 2012, 02:56:21 PM

Those that adopt ASIC sooner, at a higher price point, may be left with longer ROI periods than those that wait to purchase.

That's what I've been thinking for a while. When BFL first announced preorders, the price per BTC was half what it was today. This means you can buy an ASIC for half what it cost you 3 months ago.

Jack1Rip1BurnIt

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Trust me, these default swaps will limit the risks

I personally can't wait for asic devices because of the electricity and ultimately heat savings that are gonna be involved. I'm about tired of this hot ass room and a high ass light bill. With these projected power usage details that we are receiving from ALL of the asic producers, I can pretty much count on my future light bills will be almost the same as if I was not mining at all. That is going to be freaking awesome! What gets me is how many people sound pissed about the switch that is about to occur. There were so many threads and posts about saving electricity and getting the best mh/w ratio before the announcement of asics. I guess everybody can't be happy, and some can never be. I still will miss tinkering and maintaining all of my gpus, but I will be so happy that I can finally play some good games and not worry about how many bitcoins I'm losing.
I also completely agree with SgtSpike that securing the network is fanstastic and completely necessary for Bitcoin to survive and become as successful as we all want it to become.

SgtSpike

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Activity: 1400

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Quote from: nedbert9 on September 25, 2012, 02:56:21 PM

Quote from: VeeMiner on September 25, 2012, 10:39:01 AM

there's nothing wrong with that...
...
Only people losing money will be the ones heavily invested in GPU/FPGA chips.

Quote from: crazyates on September 25, 2012, 01:07:56 PM

Quote from: SgtSpike on September 25, 2012, 10:32:57 AM

The cheaper they are, the less attackable the network will be!

The more Singles that are sold, the harder the network is to attack. It also makes it harder for someone to justify a $1300 piece of equipment that only makes 0.15BTC a day because the difficulty is so high. The price is going to have to rise for LOTS of ASICs to be worth it.

Let's step back a moment and inspect fundamentals. Bitcoin protocol subsidy fundamentals. Securing the network is all well and good, but without facts it means nothing.

Bitcoin protocol provides a subsidy to miners to ensure network security. This subsidy, and how exactly how much of this subsidy equates to profits compared to operating costs is available to miners, will dictate how secure (total network capacity) the network will be.

An ASIC vendor, post NRE payoff, has a large profit margin. These vendors can drop ASIC pricing tremendously based on miner profitability targets.

Those that adopt ASIC sooner, at a higher price point, may be left with longer ROI periods than those that wait to purchase.

ASIC vendors will be in total control of miner ROI. They can drop from 1300 USD / unit to 100 USD / unit until miner subsidy is maximally diluted compared to their cost of production.

It's a wonderful business opportunity and an insidious profit extraction from Bitcoin miners.

I'm so tired of hearing this argument.

If you don't think ASICs will make a profit, then don't buy them.

Topic: ["WAIT LIST"] BFL SC Pre-Order Information (Monarch orders too!) - page 28. (Read 136393 times)