Topic: Wait.... what's wrong with "Obamacare"? - page 3. (Read 10197 times)

Oh yes; they didn't show the bill before the vote and they now say that writing that the states were responsible to create a market place was a typo.

Im thinking about writing a long and over-developed post about how retarded America and its fcked up politics, de-railed moneysystem, healthcare, medicine, how-to-war... and so on. But I realize I'm at a Bitcoin-Forum and I assume that if you found your way here your mind should be quite enlightened already.

So I jump all that shit and go straight to my point:
Health-care should be free and for everybody. EVERYBODY. Obama-care is a small step in the right direction, but its far from civilized. (IMO!)

Yeah, now is the time to start whining about % of salary at insurances and shit..
Let me tell you; If everyone push a % of the salary at the government and the government DONT WASTE IT AT SHIT there wont be a problem to have a working healthcare, education, w/e you want....

And to everyone still whining something like; I dont want to pay any tax. Hell no MORE tax then I do at this moment!
Make a calculation..
How much do you earn? Whats your monthly % payment for insurances and similar to keep you safe in the social society you're living in?


I live in a country where ~30% is tax up to about $40k/year. Somewhere around there tax start to ramp up to 50-something% at $70k >70k =55%~
No, Im not sure about these numbers but consider em as a guideline for how my situation is.

I dont have to care about health-insurances. The fee for any illness is $15. If I break my hip, loose a toe, smash a teeth, blast a kidney.. Ill still get it fixed (if possible) for $15.
Meds wont ever cost more then ~$1500/year.
Im allowed to study wtf I want. If I'm serious about my application I should make sure to have grades to be accepted. But $ is NEVER an issue.
I have decent/good roads to drive on. Dang, I could go on, but I think I made my point.

Curious about how I think a society should work? google any Scandinavian health and/or education-system. They are all somewhat on track.

IMO;
USA is fooked up. Way beyond repair.
I'll sit on my chair, enjoying the chaos made my human stupidity.

Bring
Me
Some
Popcorn! 

-Grg

True.  I'm really not of the opinion, though, that Obamacare is a Democratic invention.  I see it as an Obama invention that he's sort of half gotten support on from mainstream Democrats.

Obamacare is rather an ideological invention.  Anything based on practical business knowledge and examination of facts would be better.  There is no question that the normal committee in the House, committee in the Senate process, followed by votes of approval and sent to the POTUS for signoff, would have resulted in a superior result.

Obama chose not to do this due to an ideological Marxist and socialist prejudice, instead opted for a budget reconcilation process which allowed passage with 1/2+1 votes.  The existing legislation never went through any committee, in either House or Senate.

Thus we can say that "Obamacare isn't a product of the Democrats" at least in the normal legislative sense.

Yes, most of Repubs will push for smarter solutions than what democrats want to implement in Health Care but I wanted to point out that they would still be for a lot of Government intervention in Health Care, almost as much as Democrats.

Repubs are usually for Big military spending and Bush even throw the whole Free Market idea in the toilets when he accepted that Paulson (who was supposed to be against Government Intervention in the Economy) saved all the Banks with tax payer funds and insurance.

By the way, Democrats pretend that they are for less Big Military spending but they are not.

Yes, Repubs are BigGovies, many of them.

But not usually at the expense of better, cheaper open market solutions.

For example, Repubs would be FOR health insurance operating across state lines, AGAINST forcing hospitals and doctors to publish their rates.

Most Repubs are for a Big Government too, Rand Paul is for following the Economical laws and allowing a healthy competition and the Free Market in Health Care.

Except that this is excluded from the possibilities because of the back door payments to the insurance companies if they "show a loss" under the ObamaScam. 

There are a large number of problems with this.

I don't think the matter is helped, rather it is hindered considerably, by the propagandic-rosy-hypnotic-"All is Great and Wonderful" meme which this thread seemed to ride on for a while.

Requires realistically looking at the problems.  Maybe the repubs can do that.  Maybe they can't.

I'd be interested in hearing a proposal from Rand Paul.

When the State intervenes in a market, it changes the price (usually up) and the global result is almost always a loss especially if you take into account the higher taxes or debt that will be needed.

If you want to go back to a free market, it will change the way it is and there will be short term winners and losers.

But you need to go for the better long-term solution which is always having more competition.

If I understand your comment correctly, you are concerned that in the absence of free competition across state lines, consumers fare better.

What happens now is that many states have only one or two companies operating within their borders, preventing virtually anything that might be called "competition."

Also I do not think that "operating across state lines" is equal to "no regulation".  That isn't the case say with auto insurance.

More Americans are putting off expensive medical care now with Obamacare, than previously...
http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/28/gallup-peak-number-of-americans-delaying-medical-care-over-costs/

Say they open up the flood gates and allow for insurance providers to sell across state lines, but Obamacare is repealed or fundamentally changed as the GOP would like. Insurance providers would begin to migrate to states with very little regulation on coverage, pay-outs, and the like.
Now you as a healthy person would snatch up this now much cheaper plan because you have very little to worry about, but the sick person wouldn't have that option because these now un-regulated insurers would refuse to cover them or propose they pay in excess of $30,000 a year for coverage. This leaves sick people scrounging the bottom of the barrel for health insurance that would more than likely be lacking.

OBAMACARE'S BACK-END STILL NOT BUILT; OFFICIALS VERIFYING APPLICATIONS BY HAND



Obamacare was signed into law four years and eight months ago, yet the highly unpopular program's back-end computer systems still remain unbuilt.

The problem is so bad, health officials have been forced to perform some verifications by hand.
"Health insurers have been exasperated by the delays, as health officials verify some account and application details by hand," reports The Hill.

Far from denying the headaches caused by its busted Obamacare website, the Obama administration blamed its recent enrollment figure embarrassment on the unbuilt back-end system. When it was revealed that the Obama administration had inflated its Obamacare enrollment number by 1.3 million people, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Administrator Marilyn Tavenner sent the House Oversight and Government Reform committee a letter blaming its unfinished back-end system for the inflated figures.

"Once the automated system for effectuated enrollment is functional, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services will be able to more easily report the number who has paid their premiums," wrote Tavenner.

The Obama administration now claims just 6.7 million, not the widely-touted eight million figure, are enrolled in Obamacare. How many of those are among the five million individuals who had their plans canceled due to Obamacare and were forced to enroll in the program the administration won't say.

Nationally, Obamacare remains as unpopular as ever. According to Gallup, a record-low 37 percent of Americans support Obamacare.

Over the next ten years, Obamacare will cost American taxpayers $2.6 trillion.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/11/29/Obamacare-s-Back-End-Still-Not-Built-Officials-Verifying-By-Hand



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The back-end will never be built as 0bamacare was designed to fail. That is why they re hired the same company that built it... to fix it. Getting paid to NOT fix it. It is by design.

I personally know of dozens of cases where county hostpitals have provided long term care for people who initially came in through the emergency room.  It may be that you don't have "a right" to long term care, someone like the doc makes a decision.

Yes, it has been the case that if you can pay at the hospital level, you are paying for those who cannot.  THAT HAS NOT CHANGED!

Virtually none of that actual problems with health care pricing and delivery have been corrected by this law which attempts to cast in stone the "rights" of the insurance companies to rape you and me under the cover of alleging it gives you "rights" to health care.

This is not true. The hospital is only required to stabilize you, not provide free care to you. If you are already stable then they may not accept you as a patient if you cannot pay. They also generally charge higher rates to the uninsured so if you can pay then you are paying for those who cannot.

If you were paying for the care you receive or if you were paying a true private insurance in a free market you would pay less, have better care and there will still be emergency care regardless of insurance status.

Are you fucking kidding me?  Hospitals have provided emergency care by way of being funded through property taxes for what, a century?

You are protecting other people by buying health insurance. Hospitals are required to provide emergency care regardless of insurance status. You're protecting others from footing your medical costs. Even if you don't have medical coverage outright, you're still de-facto covered under some circumstances. The mandate fixes this loophole.

Let me ask you this then: Why democrats HATE 0bama personally? It must be the case. Why would anyone be against 0bamacare if not for a deep rooted personal hate against our first black president? Are you saying I am as bad as chuck schumer? Is chuck shumer a Tea Partier who's afraid of... 0bama? 

Tensions flare between Senate Democrats, White House

Do democrats hate 0bama?
What does chuck schumer, third in power in the senate after harry reid say about 0bamacare?

Schadenfreude overload: Senate Democrats and Obama staffers at war over Obamacare





Have a Happy Thanksgiving!!! 

So when Republicans finally take control over both the House and Senate in January, we can expect a prompt repeal of Obamacare, right? Because they've spent so much time and energy talking about how terrible it is for America, citizens, the free-market, IRS power, etc., and have already voted so many times to repeal, that it should be a given that this is one of the first things they do, no?

Well, it's either they repeal it now that they have the ability or they are finally exposed as frauds and liars, as a party that's only voted for repeal so many times because they knew they had no chance of actually repealing it; that this has all just been a charade and political posturing to whip their supporters into a furor so they donate all that  money and go on internet forums and post stuff like this:


When Republicans fail to repeal Obamacare, will you become a partisan apologist, or will you hold them accountable for failing to act? Will you be as critical of them as you are of Obama, or are you just posting pictures like this because you hate Obama, not because of Obamacare?

I'm asking earnestly because if you're not going to hold Republicans accountable for not repealing what you consider to be a terrible law when they finally have the power to, then what is the utility of constantly railing against Obama because of Obamacare?

I actually have better coverage with a lower deductible and a higher covered amount. It was so much of a better deal that I assume I had a very bad contract before. I can't compare service though. I have not filed a claim with the new place.