Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 16895. (Read 26713688 times)
July 24, 2017, 02:43:49 PM
What's special about August the 4th?
July 24, 2017, 02:39:51 PM
and don't loose the plan :
According to your otherwise excellent TA price would cross ATH around 7 Aug. That's completely wrong. It will happen during the first hours of 4 August... because of reasons.
July 24, 2017, 02:34:14 PM
July 24, 2017, 02:10:52 PM
All rather rational. I'll just respond to a few of your points.
Yes, mempool is low. You know what else is low? Use of BTC in day-to-day commerce. While I've rarely bought the canonical 'coffee' with BTC, I used to be able to pay my bar and restaurant tabs with it. No more. While my experience itself is anecdotal, retailers which used to accept BTC do not accept BTC any longer. Maybe you have not noticed this trend. Maybe you don't actually _use_ Bitcoin?
SegWit as a capacity increase is laughable. Follow me on this...
A SegWit coin is not a Bitcoin. It has a more tenuous security model. (I'll expand on this if you don't yet know why). The owner is able turn a SegWit coin into a Bitcoin to reclaim the stronger Bitcoin security model. While trivial to perform, it requires another transaction. Even before accounting for this shrinkage, SegWit can only 'increase' transaction capacity in proportion to its usage. When do you expect the universal usage of SegWit, which is required to get to 1.7x?
Yes, I am worried that a significant portion of the 'community' will renege on the 2X portion of the deal. Perhaps you have not caught Bobby Lee's tweet on the topic? Though merely posed as a question, it brought the concept out of the dark and exposed the extent of this attitude.
'Next time we need consensus, no one will trust the agreement'... Hello? Hong Kong? Hello?
Maybe you don't quite understand how Bitcoin works. Miners already can make the block size any size they want.
"They vote with their CPU proof-of-worker, expressing their acceptance of valid blocks by working on extending them and rejecting invalid blocks by refusing to work on them. Any needed rules and incentives can be enforced with this consensus mechanism."
- satoshi, the white paper
Yes. BCC is an attempt to make Bitcoin better. We see the SegWit approach as violative of the current system principles.
I do agree that one of the reasons the mempool is almost empty (less intentional spam is another) is because we have got used to NOT do tx's except when strictly necessary... which sucks. Yes, I have even been using Litecoin to move funds from one exchange to another. It's also faster.
As I said Segwit will "alleviate" (not completely solve) the problem, but we will probably need an increased blocksize in the near future. I think segwit+LN will play a critical role for mass adoption as a payment system, but I do also agree with the increased blocksize. Both are needed.
Why can't we just stop acting as if it has to be one thing or the other? Or is the acting just ridiculous game theory moves?
I am not sure I do agree with the HK agreement argument... as it seems to me it was not a widely adopted agreement, also not an enough publicised one at the time, nor something that was ever submitted as a BIP voting (as Segwit2x and BIP91 have with the utmost success).
Backing off for no reason now that miners voted with 100% hashrate on Segwit2x (which includes the near future 2MB block size increase) would be deceiptful and rresponsible for the future of Bitcoin... and for any consensus on future agreements that will be surely needed.
Someone (jgarzik?) should submit a BIP for miners to vote same as it has been done with BIP91 but for the 2MB blocksize increase. I am sure miners will keep the agreement and make it pass too.
Yes, I know miners can change whatever they want. They can even change the rewards per block or the total amount of Bitcoins... but THAT would NOT be Bitcoin. That would be an ATTACK to Bitcoin. For some reason the 51% ATTACK was denominated like that by satoshi himself in spite of being a majority. More so if it is done as an unilateral decision.
We have an agreement, miners have supported it with 100% hashrate, majority of community too. Let's just respect it and go on.
And yes, let's also increase blocksize to a fixed 2MB this year... in BITCOIN.
July 24, 2017, 01:34:56 PM
Guys look at those walls : https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitfinex/btcusd
Where ? :> July 24, 2017, 01:34:21 PM
and don't loose the plan :
July 24, 2017, 01:06:14 PM
http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/24/two-women-caught-with-4kg-gold-in-their-underwear-6801701/?
July 24, 2017, 12:58:38 PM
http://bithumb.cafe/archives/9288
bitcoin cash going on bithumb. one of those zero fee wonders in korea.
bitcoin cash going on bithumb. one of those zero fee wonders in korea.
July 24, 2017, 12:51:53 PM
Maybe you don't believe the blocksize increase will happen? I hope it does, because:
- Even if not right now, we will need that blocksize increase sometime in the future.
- Even if not right now, we will need that blocksize increase sometime in the future.
To scale to visa/mastercard transactions per second, the blocks can never be big enough (if I remember correctly we need about 6Gig per block), so on-chain transactions are not the solution.
Why start down a road that will probably forever inflate the size of the blocks, when we need to solve the problem in a different way.
Quick hack to make it work, or fix it a proper way.
Segwit enables Lightning, and Lightning will allow millions of transactions per second.
July 24, 2017, 12:47:15 PM
Guys look at those walls : https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitfinex/btcusd
July 24, 2017, 12:38:45 PM
[...]
Have you recently watched the mempool? Is almost empty. Yeah, block usage is still over a safe threshold but Segwit is going to be implemented very soon (now it is a certainty unlike years ago) and will help alleviate some. Also a blocksize increase to 2MB is on the works.
Bitcoin scaling has never had a better prospect than it has right now.
So what is the fucking need for "Bitcoin Cash" precisely right now? It's nonsense.
Maybe you don't believe the blocksize increase will happen? I hope it does, because:
- Even if not right now, we will need that blocksize increase sometime in the future.
- If that is what has been agreed to reach consensus, then it is time to deliver, or next time we need consensus noone will trust any "agreement".
- Miners have not only accepted to pass Segwit which was a majority community request but they have with 100% hashrate consensus. If they can do the 2MB increase HF with the same consensus there is not risk, so it is ok.
- Many of the people that were completely against BU (me included) was for the reason that BU is an aberration that, besides the buggy code, gives miners the right to increase/decrease blocksize at will. That's too much power for the already powerful miners. A fixed blocksize increase when (or better yet BEFORE) it is needed? FINE!.
Above all, and most importantly... If someday Bitcoin can be replaced for any other altcoin at will, our digital money fantasy castle will crumble.
Can't we all just work on making Bitcoin (the one and only) better instead of trying to fight against it?
P.S.: The way all this "scaling process" has developed makes me think we can, and in fact it is happening.
Have you recently watched the mempool? Is almost empty. Yeah, block usage is still over a safe threshold but Segwit is going to be implemented very soon (now it is a certainty unlike years ago) and will help alleviate some. Also a blocksize increase to 2MB is on the works.
Bitcoin scaling has never had a better prospect than it has right now.
So what is the fucking need for "Bitcoin Cash" precisely right now? It's nonsense.
Maybe you don't believe the blocksize increase will happen? I hope it does, because:
- Even if not right now, we will need that blocksize increase sometime in the future.
- If that is what has been agreed to reach consensus, then it is time to deliver, or next time we need consensus noone will trust any "agreement".
- Miners have not only accepted to pass Segwit which was a majority community request but they have with 100% hashrate consensus. If they can do the 2MB increase HF with the same consensus there is not risk, so it is ok.
- Many of the people that were completely against BU (me included) was for the reason that BU is an aberration that, besides the buggy code, gives miners the right to increase/decrease blocksize at will. That's too much power for the already powerful miners. A fixed blocksize increase when (or better yet BEFORE) it is needed? FINE!.
Above all, and most importantly... If someday Bitcoin can be replaced for any other altcoin at will, our digital money fantasy castle will crumble.
Can't we all just work on making Bitcoin (the one and only) better instead of trying to fight against it?
P.S.: The way all this "scaling process" has developed makes me think we can, and in fact it is happening.
I'm a bit out-of-the loop with all the (proposed) changes, but that makes total sense. Thanks bitserve.
Blocks will always be "full", even with 20MB blocks, because everyone would like to add things to the blockchain if it was free. If you want to add an animated gif of your cat, or mix a bitcoin through 10.000 different wallets, that is fine, but that _should_ be expensive. Once bitcoin gets used for larger and more serious transactions, it should be (relatively) expensive to use bitcoins to buy a single postage stamp, lollipop or ice-cream.
July 24, 2017, 12:38:31 PM
you'll be fine, BCC has bigger blocks, your TX will confrim very fast, like the good old days. 
Yep, you'll be fine... BCC will have fast confirmations. But no merchants, exchanges, or brokers will accept it, or allow you to buy it with fiat money. So you won't be able to spend it in the market economy for actual goods and services. Y'know, what crypto was meant for in the first place.
But who cares about that, right?
July 24, 2017, 12:10:16 PM
i'm not liking that there is no option on the poll that says: bitcoin will rise all week up untill Aug 1st at which point it will rocket up +500$ as the BCC market crashes down down down to the lowest low ( SUB 100, maybe even <50 
) and appears to die on arrival.
cuz ya... thats watsup.
) and appears to die on arrival.cuz ya... thats watsup.
Just as long as I get my BCC to market first. Would hate to get stuck bag holding dust, even if it's free.
you'll be fine, BCC has bigger blocks, your TX will confrim very fast, like the good old days.
So does this mean we can double dip again?!?
July 24, 2017, 12:09:10 PM
there can only be one*
choo choo (photoshop needed)
Train is leaving ?
July 24, 2017, 11:59:28 AM
there can only be one*
choo choo (photoshop needed)
July 24, 2017, 11:21:32 AM
Hopefully they made money from the people who jumped in on the pre-buy....
July 24, 2017, 11:15:24 AM
"Release the ...
ooooooooh, a liiiiiiiiittle beeeeear ! Kawaiiiiiiiiiii!" July 24, 2017, 11:07:26 AM
Bitcoin(Tr)ash 
July 24, 2017, 11:04:06 AM
By any sane definition, Bitcoin Cash is exactly a hard fork of the Bitcoin blockchain.
AFAIK LTC was such a HF ?
Not at all. LTC's blockchain is completely disjoint from Bitcoin's blockchain.
I think the naming of Coins (is it an Altcoin, Bitcoin, or a Bitcoin derivative) is a tricky thing.
My gut reaction is to say:
1) Anything thing that forks with minority hashing power is an altcoin
2) Anything that forks with a majority of hash power is still bitcoin
But this creates problems because
1) What happens if the altcoin (minority hash power chain) later becomes the majority chain, do we relabel it.
My gut reaction is to say:
1) Anything thing that forks with minority hashing power is an altcoin
2) Anything that forks with a majority of hash power is still bitcoin
But this creates problems because
1) What happens if the altcoin (minority hash power chain) later becomes the majority chain, do we relabel it.
Aye - this is a reasonable question to ask. I think the market will make this decision.
Is there going to be a BCC fork no matter what conditions? I heard some people say that it would only be if UASF split off or something? I am a bit out of the loop.
From what I understand, it is a done deal.
While the BIP91 activation took the wind out of UASF's sails, there is a growing perception that many simply lied about the 2X portion. This creates incentive to carry through with the BCC fork. Having a viable BCC when the Nov 2X date rolls around changes the game theory significantly.
However this plays out, it'll be a good show. And while Bitcoin may take a temporary hit in the process, it will likely come out the other end stronger. For the market will have informed the proper course of action.
Just clarifying for the sake of truth. Depending upon the sequencing of things, Bitcoin Cash may be no more altcoin than is SegWit coin (which is somewhat playfully starting to be referred to as Bitcoin-Jr)
You and your big blocker buddies seem really angry, to be devolving into new name calling and spin terms to attempt to perpetuate various made up bullshit.
Well, JJG, you remain as clueless as ever. How do you get 'angry' out of the above? And what exactly is the bullshit? Either choice going forward is a change to Bitcoin. If one path forward is an alt, then so is the other.
Can't wait till a troll hacker replay attacks the BCC transactions on the real Bitcoin Blockchain. This will be firework.
Naah - it'll be a non-event for anyone but the affected party that made the unprotected transaction. As will be the inevitable cases of 'troll hackers' performing replay attacks on transactions on the BTC chain.
When is segwit likely to be activated?
it is approximately 2480 blocks (464 blocks left in this period plus 2016 blocks in the next period)and if there are 144 blocks per day, then that is approximately 17.2 days from today. That means about August 10 - ish ( or 9-ish or 11-ish). No?
Well, your reasoning is good, but your 144 blocks/day figure is low. Hashpower growth has been outrunning difficulty again. Recent intervals are averaging closer to 8-1/2 minutes. If this continues, you'll get your segwit locked in that much sooner.
Have you recently watched the mempool? Is almost empty. Yeah, block usage is still over a safe threshold but Segwit is going to be implemented very soon (now it is a certainty unlike years ago) and will help alleviate some. Also a blocksize increase to 2MB is on the works.
Maybe you don't believe the blocksize increase will happen?
- If that is what has been agreed to reach consensus, then it is time to deliver, or next time we need consensus noone will trust any "agreement".
- Many of the people that were completely against BU (me included) was for the reason that BU is an aberration that, besides the buggy code, gives miners the right to increase/decrease blocksize at will. That's too much power for the already powerful miners. A fixed blocksize increase when (or better yet BEFORE) it is needed? FINE!.
Above all, and most importantly... If someday Bitcoin can be replaced for any other altcoin at will, our digital money fantasy castle will crumble.
Can't we all just work on making Bitcoin (the one and only) better instead of trying to fight against it?
Maybe you don't believe the blocksize increase will happen?
- If that is what has been agreed to reach consensus, then it is time to deliver, or next time we need consensus noone will trust any "agreement".
- Many of the people that were completely against BU (me included) was for the reason that BU is an aberration that, besides the buggy code, gives miners the right to increase/decrease blocksize at will. That's too much power for the already powerful miners. A fixed blocksize increase when (or better yet BEFORE) it is needed? FINE!.
Above all, and most importantly... If someday Bitcoin can be replaced for any other altcoin at will, our digital money fantasy castle will crumble.
Can't we all just work on making Bitcoin (the one and only) better instead of trying to fight against it?
All rather rational. I'll just respond to a few of your points.
Yes, mempool is low. You know what else is low? Use of BTC in day-to-day commerce. While I've rarely bought the canonical 'coffee' with BTC, I used to be able to pay my bar and restaurant tabs with it. No more. While my experience itself is anecdotal, retailers which used to accept BTC do not accept BTC any longer. Maybe you have not noticed this trend. Maybe you don't actually _use_ Bitcoin?
SegWit as a capacity increase is laughable. Follow me on this...
A SegWit coin is not a Bitcoin. It has a more tenuous security model. (I'll expand on this if you don't yet know why). The owner is able turn a SegWit coin into a Bitcoin to reclaim the stronger Bitcoin security model. While trivial to perform, it requires another transaction. Even before accounting for this shrinkage, SegWit can only 'increase' transaction capacity in proportion to its usage. When do you expect the universal usage of SegWit, which is required to get to 1.7x?
Yes, I am worried that a significant portion of the 'community' will renege on the 2X portion of the deal. Perhaps you have not caught Bobby Lee's tweet on the topic? Though merely posed as a question, it brought the concept out of the dark and exposed the extent of this attitude.
'Next time we need consensus, no one will trust the agreement'... Hello? Hong Kong? Hello?
Maybe you don't quite understand how Bitcoin works. Miners already can make the block size any size they want.
"They vote with their CPU proof-of-worker, expressing their acceptance of valid blocks by working on extending them and rejecting invalid blocks by refusing to work on them. Any needed rules and incentives can be enforced with this consensus mechanism."
- satoshi, the white paper
Yes. BCC is an attempt to make Bitcoin better. We see the SegWit approach as violative of the current system principles.
July 24, 2017, 09:48:17 AM
oh now Wu's all nothing to do with me, just a contigency plan, move along now
https://blog.bitmain.com/en/regarding-bitcoin-cash-viabtc-bitcoin-abc/
https://blog.bitmain.com/en/regarding-bitcoin-cash-viabtc-bitcoin-abc/
Tell that to those bigblockers at r/btc. They think there will be a HF but they are up for a big suprise.
Those noobs have concerted real BTC into that Bitcoin Cash scam, ViaBTC will be happy with all those free money
LOL so BitcoinCash is just a joke? proof of concept? will it work?
ViaBTC can make an alt-coin like everybody, no problem but will it be a succes..that will be a NO.
It is one major shit show, even Roger made a thread about it. Those noobs cant even READ...
They dont respect the scaling consences and those morons still keep crying that Bitcon is cancer etc etc.. man i've never seen so many retards in one place.
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