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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 18302. (Read 26608317 times)

legendary
Activity: 2833
Merit: 1851
In order to dump coins one must have coins
but if bitgo auto signs every time BFX signs.... then all you really need is BFX keys and you can move the coins.

is this infact the reality of what was going on with this "shared key model." ? idk.. idk shit...

From everything I've read, that seems to be the case Adam. BitGo and BitFinex are both very keen to point out that none of the blame lies with BitGo. Finex apparently had a custom setup with BitGo, unlike any other BitGo customer.

Either BitGo simply signed everything requested by Finex, or the hackers were able to bypass/avoid any kind of security precautions that BitGo had in place.

In either case, it looks to me like BitGo is shit when it comes to security, which is supposed to be their job. They provided Finex with a system that had no security or their system was easily bypassed. Fail or fail.

Perhaps there is something else going on and I haven't read about it or it isn't public knowledge?

So far sounds to me like it's an implementation error. BFX forgot to check the "Limit maximum daily withdrawals to 5%" checkbox during account set up with BitGone 

It's because I was under the impression the boxes (addresses) were all drained individually. What kind of daily withdrawal limit woulda prevented that?

The addresses were all in 2/3 multisig. Hacker got BFX's key, signed the transaction (got 1/3), and then forwarded it to BitGone, and then BitGone said yep transaction looks valid i'll sign for this so you got your (2/3). In essence Bitgone signed off on BTC120k of BTC withdrawals from BFXs controlled accounts in 3hrs and didn't see anything wrong with it to stop it.
Or at least how i understand it.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1012
So far sounds to me like it's an implementation error. BFX forgot to check the "Limit maximum daily withdrawals to 5%" checkbox during account set up with BitGone 

Well, BitGo's website states that they are "The leader in blockchain security" along with "100% secure". If their job is to secure bitcoins, it shouldn't matter how badly the customer tries to screw up, they should still secure the coins!

If I take my car to a garage and tell them to replace the brake pads with eight blocks of sharp cheddar cheese, they had better talk me out of it or refuse entirely. Especially if they are "The leader in automotive safety" and "100% safe".

Why would BitGo, a company which prides itself on securing bitcoins, let one of their customers choose a solution with no security at all? They should have either had precautions in place or, if they couldn't provide the kind of service that Finex desired, they should have turned them away as a customer explaining that their proposed solution is insecure.

It's because I was under the impression the boxes (addresses) were all drained individually. What kind of daily withdrawal limit woulda prevented that?

The one where one customer isn't allowed to withdraw 1%ish of all the bitcoins in existence without some kind of flag going up. LOL!

Even if they were individual addresses, they all belonged to the same customer: Finex.



legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
but if bitgo auto signs every time BFX signs.... then all you really need is BFX keys and you can move the coins.

is this infact the reality of what was going on with this "shared key model." ? idk.. idk shit...

From everything I've read, that seems to be the case Adam. BitGo and BitFinex are both very keen to point out that none of the blame lies with BitGo. Finex apparently had a custom setup with BitGo, unlike any other BitGo customer.

Either BitGo simply signed everything requested by Finex, or the hackers were able to bypass/avoid any kind of security precautions that BitGo had in place.

In either case, it looks to me like BitGo is shit when it comes to security, which is supposed to be their job. They provided Finex with a system that had no security or their system was easily bypassed. Fail or fail.

Perhaps there is something else going on and I haven't read about it or it isn't public knowledge?

So far sounds to me like it's an implementation error. BFX forgot to check the "Limit maximum daily withdrawals to 5%" checkbox during account set up with BitGone 

It's because I was under the impression the boxes (addresses) were all drained individually. What kind of daily withdrawal limit woulda prevented that?
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
but if bitgo auto signs every time BFX signs.... then all you really need is BFX keys and you can move the coins.

is this infact the reality of what was going on with this "shared key model." ? idk.. idk shit...

From everything I've read, that seems to be the case Adam. BitGo and BitFinex are both very keen to point out that none of the blame lies with BitGo. Finex apparently had a custom setup with BitGo, unlike any other BitGo customer.

Either BitGo simply signed everything requested by Finex, or the hackers were able to bypass/avoid any kind of security precautions that BitGo had in place.

In either case, it looks to me like BitGo is shit when it comes to security, which is supposed to be their job. They provided Finex with a system that had no security or their system was easily bypassed. Fail or fail.

Perhaps there is something else going on and I haven't read about it or it isn't public knowledge?

So far sounds to me like it's an implementation error. BFX forgot to check the "Limit maximum daily withdrawals to 5%" checkbox during account set up with BitGone  



that was a feature ... so was BFX holding one key and the auto-sign api key at the same time . if they did way adam was thinking, obviously would defeat the entire purpose of the features of using bitgo for security of bitcoins .. they wouldn't be able to do bail-ins either . the hack was actually good for BFX and bitcoin . just think, now have BFXtokens .
legendary
Activity: 2833
Merit: 1851
In order to dump coins one must have coins
but if bitgo auto signs every time BFX signs.... then all you really need is BFX keys and you can move the coins.

is this infact the reality of what was going on with this "shared key model." ? idk.. idk shit...

From everything I've read, that seems to be the case Adam. BitGo and BitFinex are both very keen to point out that none of the blame lies with BitGo. Finex apparently had a custom setup with BitGo, unlike any other BitGo customer.

Either BitGo simply signed everything requested by Finex, or the hackers were able to bypass/avoid any kind of security precautions that BitGo had in place.

In either case, it looks to me like BitGo is shit when it comes to security, which is supposed to be their job. They provided Finex with a system that had no security or their system was easily bypassed. Fail or fail.

Perhaps there is something else going on and I haven't read about it or it isn't public knowledge?

So far sounds to me like it's an implementation error. BFX forgot to check the "Limit maximum daily withdrawals to 5%" checkbox during account set up with BitGone 
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
shes growing

https://blockchain.info/address/35emx395afKAKAr72VoePVbu3FJvxLPVny

there is somthing strangely satisfying about watching unconfirmed TX accumulate
legendary
Activity: 2833
Merit: 1851
In order to dump coins one must have coins
its really TO BAD, that bitgo didnt have some stupid logic saying if bitfinex asks for >1000Coins to be moved reject it.

It seems like a very obvious thing to do. Suspicious activity should trigger a lockdown and require manual intervention to OK it. The system shouldn't just go "yeah, no problem" when somebody asks to empty out half the Bitcoin vault.

But the vault contained separate lockboxes. They were cleaned out one after another after another.

All lock boxes "belong" to single entity, the if >X% accounts get emptied and if overall > X% gets taken out go into lock down mode should be the basic thing for any kind of security company 
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
its really TO BAD, that bitgo didnt have some stupid logic saying if bitfinex asks for >1000Coins to be moved reject it.

It seems like a very obvious thing to do. Suspicious activity should trigger a lockdown and require manual intervention to OK it. The system shouldn't just go "yeah, no problem" when somebody asks to empty out half the Bitcoin vault.

But the vault contained separate lockboxes. They were cleaned out one after another after another.
legendary
Activity: 2842
Merit: 1511
its really TO BAD, that bitgo didnt have some stupid logic saying if bitfinex asks for >1000Coins to be moved reject it.

It seems like a very obvious thing to do. Suspicious activity should trigger a lockdown and require manual intervention to OK it. The system shouldn't just go "yeah, no problem" when somebody asks to empty out half the Bitcoin vault.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
anyone know the address of where all the bitfinex coins got move to offhand? it would be fun to look at that TX  Tongue

https://blockchain.info/address/35emx395afKAKAr72VoePVbu3FJvxLPVny
no the hacked coins

Spokesman Zane posted a pastebin on Reddit. But it's a lot of addresses.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1012
but if bitgo auto signs every time BFX signs.... then all you really need is BFX keys and you can move the coins.

is this infact the reality of what was going on with this "shared key model." ? idk.. idk shit...

From everything I've read, that seems to be the case Adam. BitGo and BitFinex are both very keen to point out that none of the blame lies with BitGo. Finex apparently had a custom setup with BitGo, unlike any other BitGo customer.

Either BitGo simply signed everything requested by Finex, or the hackers were able to bypass/avoid any kind of security precautions that BitGo had in place.

In either case, it looks to me like BitGo is shit when it comes to security, which is supposed to be their job. They provided Finex with a system that had no security or their system was easily bypassed. Fail or fail.

Perhaps there is something else going on and I haven't read about it or it isn't public knowledge?
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner


Who's address is this and what is happening?

It looks like an address that was just created today, and there are a lots of coins going into it from a variety of addresses... What does it mean?
this is a whale finally deciding NOT to keep 1000's of bitcoin on different exchanges?

oh the my bullishness is coming back on full force!

.. whats the price at? better double it!

It's Bitfinex moving the coins it has left to one address according to Zane Tackett on reddit. He says they are moving the coins to their control, which makes me think they have all the keys to that address and have abandoned the shared key model.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4wiw3q/bitfinex_has_725k_btc_left_or_someone_just_stole/

their implementation of "shared key model." is obviously not good enough.

its really TO BAD, that bitgo didnt have some stupid logic saying if bitfinex asks for >1000Coins to be moved reject it.

i dont understand why they used multi sig if bitgo would simply go ahead and auto sign off any/everything.

F i dont understand wtf this "shared key model." ment. oh well...


seems obvious.. it meant that if BFX was hacked, that everyone shares in the losses .
I mean i dont understand the mutil sigs detials

like

to move coins required BFX key and bitgo keys
but if bitgo auto signs every time BFX signs.... then all you really need is BFX keys and you can move the coins.

is this infact the reality of what was going on with this "shared key model." ? idk.. idk shit...
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000


Who's address is this and what is happening?

It looks like an address that was just created today, and there are a lots of coins going into it from a variety of addresses... What does it mean?
this is a whale finally deciding NOT to keep 1000's of bitcoin on different exchanges?

oh the my bullishness is coming back on full force!

.. whats the price at? better double it!

It's Bitfinex moving the coins it has left to one address according to Zane Tackett on reddit. He says they are moving the coins to their control, which makes me think they have all the keys to that address and have abandoned the shared key model.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4wiw3q/bitfinex_has_725k_btc_left_or_someone_just_stole/

their implementation of "shared key model." is obviously not good enough.

its really TO BAD, that bitgo didnt have some stupid logic saying if bitfinex asks for >1000Coins to be moved reject it.

i dont understand why they used multi sig if bitgo would simply go ahead and auto sign off any/everything.

F i dont understand wtf this "shared key model." ment. oh well...


seems obvious.. it meant that if BFX was hacked, that everyone shares in the losses .
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
anyone know the address of where all the bitfinex coins got move to offhand? it would be fun to look at that TX  Tongue

https://blockchain.info/address/35emx395afKAKAr72VoePVbu3FJvxLPVny
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
anyone know the address of where all the bitfinex coins got move to offhand? it would be fun to look at that TX  Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner


Who's address is this and what is happening?

It looks like an address that was just created today, and there are a lots of coins going into it from a variety of addresses... What does it mean?
this is a whale finally deciding NOT to keep 1000's of bitcoin on different exchanges?

oh the my bullishness is coming back on full force!

.. whats the price at? better double it!

It's Bitfinex moving the coins it has left to one address according to Zane Tackett on reddit. He says they are moving the coins to their control, which makes me think they have all the keys to that address and have abandoned the shared key model.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4wiw3q/bitfinex_has_725k_btc_left_or_someone_just_stole/

their implementation of "shared key model." is obviously not good enough.

its really TO BAD, that bitgo didnt have some stupid logic saying if bitfinex asks for >1000Coins to be moved reject it.

i dont understand why they used multi sig if bitgo would simply go ahead and auto sign off any/everything.

F i dont understand wtf this "shared key model." ment. oh well...
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
In order to generate customer confidence they do have to disclose enough information, so that customers are going to be sufficiently content as to continue to use their services...

This will be there biggest challenge, going forward, to figure out a way to keep their customers.



**Rant about what security model they should have used**

I always thought the multi sig wallet they used was so that customers would hold a PrivateKey of there own, so that when users did a BTC withdraw or created an order  from there bitfinex wallet, bitfinex required a signed msg from this PrivateKey that only the customer held  ( i was thinking the PrivateKey & signing was being done client side using some fancy node.JS bitcoin wallet behind the scenes )

I mean this would seem like the logical thing to do, no way in hell could any move any coins without compromising everyone's personal computer AND bitfienx's itself.

this is what i thought was happening at bitfinex when i over heard somthing about them using a multi sig wallet for added security.

maybe if they used this kind of approach, this would make customers feel more secure.

if you can mathematically PROVE that my funds held at finex will not move unless MY PK is compromised, and simply require a signed msg from that PK to move funds (along with all the other login credentials. ), i will be 100% sure i can safely store bitcoin on this platform.
legendary
Activity: 2842
Merit: 1511
It's Bitfinex moving the coins it has left to one address according to Zane Tackett on reddit. He says they are moving the coins to their control, which makes me think they have all the keys to that address and have abandoned the shared key model.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4wiw3q/bitfinex_has_725k_btc_left_or_someone_just_stole/

It's going to be interesting seeing how many coins that address ends up with. At present, their BTC loss stands at about 62%.
sr. member
Activity: 298
Merit: 253


Who's address is this and what is happening?

It looks like an address that was just created today, and there are a lots of coins going into it from a variety of addresses... What does it mean?
this is a whale finally deciding NOT to keep 1000's of bitcoin on different exchanges?

oh the my bullishness is coming back on full force!

.. whats the price at? better double it!

It's Bitfinex moving the coins it has left to one address according to Zane Tackett on reddit. He says they are moving the coins to their control, which makes me think they have all the keys to that address and have abandoned the shared key model.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4wiw3q/bitfinex_has_725k_btc_left_or_someone_just_stole/
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