Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29217.

adamstgBit

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1037

Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: billyjoeallen on February 25, 2014, 09:22:41 PM

So this rally is about the removal of fear of coins from Gox being dumped on other exchanges anytime soon if ever. Makes sense.

So how can Roger Ver and Andreas Antonopolis both be Bitcoin Jesus? Bitcoin Jesi?

there not
Roger Ver = Bitcoin Jesus
Andreas Antonopolis = Bitcoin Genius

billyjoeallen

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1007

Hide your women

So this rally is about the removal of fear of coins from Gox being dumped on other exchanges anytime soon if ever. Makes sense.

So how can Roger Ver and Andreas Antonopolis both be Bitcoin Jesus? Bitcoin Jesi?

cbutters

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Quote from: derpinheimer on February 25, 2014, 09:14:42 PM

Quote from: cbutters on February 25, 2014, 09:11:49 PM

I hate to bring this up with the stigma... but is it just me or is the volume on btcchina creeping up?

You mean Huobi? BTCChina barely has any volume..

No I mean BTCChina... look at the 12H chart... volume was basically silent for all of january... been creeping up over the last week or so.

Loozik

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass

Quote from: portfail on February 25, 2014, 09:11:31 PM

Someone's gone missing with the second/third key.Either kidnapped or gone rogue,probably blackmailing
"technically speaking it's not "lost" just yet, just temporarily unavailable"

My guess too was when reading this that MT was blackmailed or something similar.

derpinheimer

legendary

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Quote from: cbutters on February 25, 2014, 09:11:49 PM

I hate to bring this up with the stigma... but is it just me or is the volume on btcchina creeping up?

You mean Huobi? BTCChina barely has any volume..

Loozik

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass

24 hours lapsed since halting the trading...

Time to bed. Hopefully tomorrows things will be clearlier.

cbutters

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

I hate to bring this up with the stigma... but is it just me or is the volume on btcchina creeping up?

portfail

newbie

Activity: 11

Merit: 0

Reading the chatlog i came up with a theory that looks increasingly probable to me.
(until i read prof7bit's explanation which came up while typing this and can be even closer to the truth but i can't comment on the technical side)

Someone's gone missing with the second/third key.Either kidnapped or gone rogue,probably blackmailing
"technically speaking it's not "lost" just yet, just temporarily unavailable"

This ties in with the "security concerns" the other guys will need his key also and "third parties involved"
Looks like he sees the coins not spent but he can't control them for some reason.

That can also explain how the document has some real figures and maybe things they were discussing among them if that is what he is admitting with "more or less" but "this document was not produced by MtGox".
[11:13] [01:09:51] Do you think it was leaked by someone purposely to hurt you personally or gox in general? <- I have some doubts

Mark has always appeared to me like a shy nerd,currently in deep trouble.
[11:22] How does that make you feel to hear or see people you bailed out yourself and stood up for over the years, turn on you like that?
[11:22] not good

Other variation on this is if he is in regulatory trouble (maybe something similar to Charley Shrem situation) which is preventing him from accessing the deposit box in which the keys are stored.

mzp

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 0

positive posts to read! The troops look a little beat up, but morale is high…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83bmsluWHZc

Walsoraj

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Ultranode

There isn't enough fiat on Stamp to sustain this rally. The order book only shows about 13 mill right now. Sure there is some off book too. But not likely near what Gox had before the malleability issue. I remember ~40 mill on book. I bet 2-3x of that off book.

Adrian-x

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1000

Quote from: MANofthePEOPLE on February 25, 2014, 08:41:47 PM

Quote from: Adrian-x on February 25, 2014, 08:23:14 PM

Quote from: proudhon on February 25, 2014, 07:59:30 PM

I've got a feeling the market behavior to the MtGox failure will be like the reaction to the Silk Road closure.

coming from my you I
LOL ed

I think so too, but shouldn’t mention it until my fiat clears hopefully before Friday. 750,000 XBT the market thought was sloshing around just got removed, from the Bitcoin pool.

Why do people keep saying they are gone? Just because I steal a coin from you it doesn't make it any less of a coin? What am I missing?

It isn’t missing, it is trading in the open market or is in cold storage, where ever it is, it’s been part of the status quo, because it wasn’t trading on Gox. That is the market equilibrium is unlikely to change anytime soon.

billyjoeallen

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1007

Hide your women

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on February 25, 2014, 08:55:36 PM

Quote from: prof7bit on February 25, 2014, 08:48:14 PM

¹) This is how I imagine their wallet worked (and how it fucked up):

User initiates withdrawal:

* debit amount from user account
* generate new private key for change address and create tx
* store tx in database (indexed by txid)
* store private key in database (indexed by address, foreign_key=txid)
* push tx to network

a week later (cron job)

* for all unconfirmed tx older than 1 week:
* credit BTC back to customer account
* delete "invalid" tx
* -> cascaded delete "unused" change address and its private key (ouch!)

run 2 years until wallet is dry, all supposed UTXO turn out to be STXO and all real UTXO are in nirvana already.

That scenario would be seriously bullish long term

Yes, if current prices do not reflect the true scarcity of coins in circulation. But we don't know for sure that's what really happened.

deadfi$h

full member

Activity: 125

Merit: 100

Quote from: prof7bit on February 25, 2014, 08:48:14 PM

Quote from: fonzie on February 25, 2014, 07:09:51 PM

Quote from: prof7bit on February 25, 2014, 07:08:12 PM

Quote from: fonzie on February 25, 2014, 06:35:56 PM

@thelema93

[10:58] Is that Crisis Strategy Draft even legit?
[11:04] more or less
[11:05] as the name suggests it's a draft, and it's a bunch of proposals to deal with the issue at hand, not things that are actually planned and/or done

which channel is this from?

http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-shit/179038-my-conversation-mark-karpeles-mtgox-2.html

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2014/02/25/mt-gox-ceo-says-on-internet-chat-hasnt-given-up/

From reading this chat log (if its authentic) I immediately come to the following conclusions:

They did not have a cold wallet, it was one huge hot wallet, implemented by MT.
Occasionally it lost (or failed to store correctly or deleted¹) private keys of its own change outputs ('not "lost" just yet, just temporarily unavailable')
He seems to believe the keys are still there somewhere buried deeply somewhere in his database server ('We haven't given up')

_____________________
¹) This is how I imagine their wallet worked (and how it fucked up):

User initiates withdrawal:

* debit amount from user account
* generate new private key for change address and create tx
* store tx in database (indexed by txid)
* store private key in database (indexed by address, foreign_key=txid)
* push tx to network

a week later (cron job)

* for all unconfirmed tx older than 1 week:
* credit BTC back to customer account
* delete "invalid" tx
* -> cascaded delete "unused" change address and its private key (ouch!)

run 2 years until wallet is dry, all supposed UTXO turn out to be STXO and all real UTXO are in nirvana already.

What kind of company wouldn't keep simple database backups though? Any company that runs a website would do that and definitely one that processes financial transactions.

That would be absolute insanity if MK could be that stupid.

analytics

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: Dragonkiller on February 25, 2014, 08:57:13 PM

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on February 25, 2014, 08:55:36 PM

Quote from: prof7bit on February 25, 2014, 08:48:14 PM

¹) This is how I imagine their wallet worked (and how it fucked up):

User initiates withdrawal:

* debit amount from user account
* generate new private key for change address and create tx
* store tx in database (indexed by txid)
* store private key in database (indexed by address, foreign_key=txid)
* push tx to network

a week later (cron job)

* for all unconfirmed tx older than 1 week:
* credit BTC back to customer account
* delete "invalid" tx
* -> cascaded delete "unused" change address and its private key (ouch!)

run 2 years until wallet is dry, all supposed UTXO turn out to be STXO and all real UTXO are in nirvana already.

That scenario would be seriously bullish long term

Yeah, I was under the impression that the coins had been stolen, but in this scenario, 750,000 coins have been permanently removed from the monetary base.

I seriously doubt they lost keys, this sounds like FUD and doesnt seem to match the stated words. It was explicitly stated coins were stolen. Either the trans. malleability or through an insider there. My guess is an insider at the company was involved in discovering it (bug) and hiding the thefts thereafter (coverup). Anyone who stole who thinks they will get away I think will be in for a rude awakening. The internal data on user accounts involved and IP's, btc addresses needs to be made public so the public can trace it. Almost seems certain an insider was involved (perhaps not Mark)...there is no way they wouldnt have noticed it without some coverup going on.

Ivanhoe

hero member

Activity: 841

Merit: 1000

4H MACD crossover in 3...2...1....

ChartBuddy

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 1823

1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Explanation

bitclown

full member

Activity: 185

Merit: 100

Quote from: Arcas on February 25, 2014, 08:53:09 PM

Silk Road and MtGox were providing about 90% of Bitcoin's bad publicity. Now they are both gone.

There's still a lot of sad stories to be written about the 0.75 million BTC that honest, clueless traders lost on Empty Gox. I'm extremely happy that Gox finally outgoxxed themselves, but were losses of this magnitude really "priced in"?

derpinheimer

legendary

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Quote from: seleme on February 25, 2014, 08:37:52 PM

Quote from: derpinheimer on February 25, 2014, 08:36:14 PM

Quote from: RicePicker on February 25, 2014, 08:34:34 PM

Quote from: derpinheimer on February 25, 2014, 08:32:03 PM

Quote from: TERA on February 25, 2014, 08:30:12 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

not to mention someone who sold 1k coins into buy wall at 550, he's gonna get butthurt pretty quick if he thought he would be able to buy back in cheaper

550 will be seen again, guaranteed.

You.. wanna bet on that?

If you are going to bet, bet on the market. If you believe that its not going to go past $550, buy buy buy then right now.

I just think saying we wont see 550 again is silly. I wont make much by betting on that in the market.

Actually, he said it will be seen again

Wow I need to get more sleep.. LOL!!

Dragonkiller

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Available Now!

Quote from: Spaceman_Spiff on February 25, 2014, 08:55:36 PM

Quote from: prof7bit on February 25, 2014, 08:48:14 PM

¹) This is how I imagine their wallet worked (and how it fucked up):

User initiates withdrawal:

* debit amount from user account
* generate new private key for change address and create tx
* store tx in database (indexed by txid)
* store private key in database (indexed by address, foreign_key=txid)
* push tx to network

a week later (cron job)

* for all unconfirmed tx older than 1 week:
* credit BTC back to customer account
* delete "invalid" tx
* -> cascaded delete "unused" change address and its private key (ouch!)

run 2 years until wallet is dry, all supposed UTXO turn out to be STXO and all real UTXO are in nirvana already.

That scenario would be seriously bullish long term

Yeah, I was under the impression that the coins had been stolen, but in this scenario, 750,000 coins have been permanently removed from the monetary base.

Spaceman_Spiff

legendary

Activity: 1638

Merit: 1001

₪``Campaign Manager´´₪

Quote from: prof7bit on February 25, 2014, 08:48:14 PM

¹) This is how I imagine their wallet worked (and how it fucked up):

User initiates withdrawal:

* debit amount from user account
* generate new private key for change address and create tx
* store tx in database (indexed by txid)
* store private key in database (indexed by address, foreign_key=txid)
* push tx to network

a week later (cron job)

* for all unconfirmed tx older than 1 week:
* credit BTC back to customer account
* delete "invalid" tx
* -> cascaded delete "unused" change address and its private key (ouch!)

run 2 years until wallet is dry, all supposed UTXO turn out to be STXO and all real UTXO are in nirvana already.

That scenario would be seriously bullish long term

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29217. (Read 26609064 times)