Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29508.

ArticMine

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

Quote from: MAbtc on February 19, 2014, 06:25:06 PM

Quote from: Vycid on February 19, 2014, 06:11:40 PM

So your thesis is that MtGox is not only insolvent, they have less than 64.8% of their deposits?

In the case of shutdown by regulators and bankruptcy, where are trading account holders in the line of creditors? Legit question -- I do not know. This is assuming that customer funds are not held in trust -- obviously if Gox is insolvent, this is the case.

If Gox did have 64.8% of deposits in such a situation, do you think trading account holders would receive 64.8% of their money? I don't.

And how many years later would they receive compensation? This is not a matter of straight probability.

One more issue here for those holding MTGox obligations denominated in BTC is that BTC could easily sky-rocket with respect to JPY while MTGox is in bankruptcy. So the BTC MTGox obligation holder may just get a few millibits on the BTC.

ArticMine

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

Quote from: Vycid on February 19, 2014, 06:11:40 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on February 19, 2014, 05:53:55 PM

The more I look at the MTGox situation the more I am convinced they are in serious financial trouble. It has all the indicators of a company delaying the inevitable. By the way I find that the market valuation of MTGoxBTC in terms of BTC currently at 0.648 at https://bitcoinbuilder.com/ very high.

So your thesis is that MtGox is not only insolvent, they have less than 64.8% of their deposits?

One of two things is going on here: a wealthy insider knows Gox is totally empty and is selling at any price, or people are being irrational and stupid as usual. I'm going with the latter.

I picked up 39 goxcoin at 0.54 yesterday. No concerns.

Yes. One reason is that MTGox has added payment providers recently but only for deposits and not for withdrawals. https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20131219.html, https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20131205.html

When you have problems with withdrawals supposedly because of procedures at the bank, why not not add MoneyPolo for withdrawals first? As for the BTC and now even JPY withdrawals issues. The indicators are getting clearer by the day.

Vycid

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

Quote from: MAbtc on February 19, 2014, 06:25:06 PM

Quote from: Vycid on February 19, 2014, 06:11:40 PM

So your thesis is that MtGox is not only insolvent, they have less than 64.8% of their deposits?

In the case of shutdown by regulators and bankruptcy, where are trading account holders in the line of creditors? Legit question -- I do not know. This is assuming that customer funds are not held in trust -- obviously if Gox is insolvent, this is the case.

If Gox did have 64.8% of deposits in such a situation, do you think trading account holders would receive 64.8% of their money? I don't.

And how many years later would they receive compensation? This is not a matter of straight probability.

It's a fair point. I was assuming, considering that Gox has been printing an obscene amount of money for many months in a row now without any visible growth in their business, that they do not hold external debt.

If that's not true, I'm still pretty sure account holders are a senior debt class. So the investors get their money after we get our money. I'm almost positive that's how it works for banks, at least, and I'm guessing it works similarly for exchanges.

The part where it gets unclear is whether Bitcoin debt will get treated as legal tender. If Gox does have debt, and the court rules that Bitcoin isn't legal tender, then the investors will get their money after the cash depositors but before the bitcoin depositors.

Kind of a fascinating scenario, really.

In any event, I expect to eventually get most of my bitcoins back, in the worst case, and that's not really so bad since I just doubled my coins by buying into Gox. And I wouldn't consider it a particularly bad thing that I won't have the option to panic sell those coins for a couple years. Takes some stress off.

Oh, yeah, and I doubled my coins without triggering a taxable event.

MAbtc

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 508

Quote from: Vycid on February 19, 2014, 06:11:40 PM

So your thesis is that MtGox is not only insolvent, they have less than 64.8% of their deposits?

In the case of shutdown by regulators and bankruptcy, where are trading account holders in the line of creditors? Legit question -- I do not know. This is assuming that customer funds are not held in trust -- obviously if Gox is insolvent, this is the case.

If Gox did have 64.8% of deposits in such a situation, do you think trading account holders would receive 64.8% of their money? I don't.

And how many years later would they receive compensation? This is not a matter of straight probability.

Davyd05

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Equus on February 19, 2014, 06:01:20 PM

So how long has CaVirtex been offering LTC?

a few hours

It was nice to hear that opposed to Cad regulations coming down on us.

Vycid

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

Quote from: ArticMine on February 19, 2014, 05:53:55 PM

The more I look at the MTGox situation the more I am convinced they are in serious financial trouble. It has all the indicators of a company delaying the inevitable. By the way I find that the market valuation of MTGoxBTC in terms of BTC currently at 0.648 at https://bitcoinbuilder.com/ very high.

So your thesis is that MtGox is not only insolvent, they have less than 64.8% of their deposits?

One of two things is going on here: a wealthy insider knows Gox is totally empty and is selling at any price, or people are being irrational and stupid as usual. I'm going with the latter.

I picked up 39 goxcoin at 0.54 yesterday. No concerns.

dreamspark

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

Price is climbing on bitcoinbuilder

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

EuroTrash: it looks extremely creepy to me, not funny at all. It looks very deranged to me...

But I guess it's just a matter of tastes

EuroTrash

hero member

Activity: 728

Merit: 500

Quote from: Rampion on February 19, 2014, 05:53:49 PM

Did you check the "about us"? Their biographies are exactly the same WORD BY WORD. It's like they are one person with two bodies, no unique experiences or motivations or whatever.

Quote

CAMERON WINKLEVOSS
Chief Executive Officer
@WINKLEVOSS

Cameron Winklevoss is a long-term investor in Bitcoin and other emerging technologies. In 2004, he graduated from Harvard University with an A.B. in Economics. In 2010, Mr. Winklevoss received a Masters of Business Administration from the Saïd Business School at the University of Oxford. Mr. Winklevoss represented the United States at the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, China.
TYLER WINKLEVOSS
President
@TYLERWINKLEVOSS

Tyler Winklevoss is a long-term investor in Bitcoin and other emerging technologies. In 2004, he graduated from Harvard University with an A.B. in Economics. In 2010, Mr. Winklevoss received a Masters of Business Administration from the Saïd Business School at the University of Oxford. Mr. Winklevoss represented the United States at the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, China.

How fucking creepy is that?

They are just trying to be funny. After all they built their public personas that way.

Equus

full member

Activity: 136

Merit: 100

Why the long face?

So how long has CaVirtex been offering LTC?

600watt

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 2106

Quote from: Rampion on February 19, 2014, 05:53:49 PM

Quote from: KeyserSoze on February 19, 2014, 05:50:42 PM

Quote from: Rampion on February 19, 2014, 05:45:58 PM

Quote from: KeyserSoze on February 19, 2014, 05:30:54 PM

Winklevii price index:
http://winkdex.com/#/

Nice find. When did this to live?

Today I think.
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/02/19/before-a-bitcoin-fund-comes-a-price-index/

Did you check the "about us"? Their biographies are exactly the same WORD BY WORD. It's like they are one person with two bodies, no unique experiences or motivations or whatever.

Quote

CAMERON WINKLEVOSS
Chief Executive Officer
@WINKLEVOSS

Cameron Winklevoss is a long-term investor in Bitcoin and other emerging technologies. In 2004, he graduated from Harvard University with an A.B. in Economics. In 2010, Mr. Winklevoss received a Masters of Business Administration from the Saïd Business School at the University of Oxford. Mr. Winklevoss represented the United States at the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, China.
TYLER WINKLEVOSS
President
@TYLERWINKLEVOSS

Tyler Winklevoss is a long-term investor in Bitcoin and other emerging technologies. In 2004, he graduated from Harvard University with an A.B. in Economics. In 2010, Mr. Winklevoss received a Masters of Business Administration from the Saïd Business School at the University of Oxford. Mr. Winklevoss represented the United States at the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, China.

How fucking creepy is that?

man, and they even look like twins ! Cheesy

ArticMine

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

The more I look at the MTGox situation the more I am convinced they are in serious financial trouble. It has all the indicators of a company delaying the inevitable. By the way I find that the market valuation of MTGoxBTC in terms of BTC currently at 0.648 at https://bitcoinbuilder.com/ very high.

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

Quote from: KeyserSoze on February 19, 2014, 05:50:42 PM

Quote from: Rampion on February 19, 2014, 05:45:58 PM

Quote from: KeyserSoze on February 19, 2014, 05:30:54 PM

Winklevii price index:
http://winkdex.com/#/

Nice find. When did this to live?

Today I think.
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/02/19/before-a-bitcoin-fund-comes-a-price-index/

Did you check the "about us"? Their biographies are exactly the same WORD BY WORD. It's like they are one person with two bodies, no unique experiences or motivations or whatever.

Quote

CAMERON WINKLEVOSS
Chief Executive Officer
@WINKLEVOSS

Cameron Winklevoss is a long-term investor in Bitcoin and other emerging technologies. In 2004, he graduated from Harvard University with an A.B. in Economics. In 2010, Mr. Winklevoss received a Masters of Business Administration from the Saïd Business School at the University of Oxford. Mr. Winklevoss represented the United States at the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, China.
TYLER WINKLEVOSS
President
@TYLERWINKLEVOSS

Tyler Winklevoss is a long-term investor in Bitcoin and other emerging technologies. In 2004, he graduated from Harvard University with an A.B. in Economics. In 2010, Mr. Winklevoss received a Masters of Business Administration from the Saïd Business School at the University of Oxford. Mr. Winklevoss represented the United States at the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, China.

How fucking creepy is that?

KeyserSoze

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500