Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 30657. (Read 26713645 times)
December 28, 2013, 09:17:11 PM
Panic sell everyone!! Btc will crash!! Let's buy back at 400 or when the funds that i deposited is already available on my account on monday!!
December 28, 2013, 09:02:01 PM
December 28, 2013, 09:00:44 PM
Fidelity offers BIT.
December 28, 2013, 09:00:15 PM
Thanks DieJohnny, for the thoughtful response.
You make a good point about trust and access....and yeah, if TrowePrice offers a bitcoin fund, folks will flock to it, and if BankAmerica offers a Bitcoin VISA folks might be willing to try it.
Which will probably happen, sooner or later the big boys are going to want a piece of the action.
I have noticed that Coinbase will let you print out a paper wallet - I understand the possibility of them hanging on to the keys, but it seems like a more "seamless" way to buy bitcoins for the newcomer.
But yes, if I could get that kind of service through one of my current brokers, I'd use them.
Thanks!
You make a good point about trust and access....and yeah, if TrowePrice offers a bitcoin fund, folks will flock to it, and if BankAmerica offers a Bitcoin VISA folks might be willing to try it.
Which will probably happen, sooner or later the big boys are going to want a piece of the action.
I have noticed that Coinbase will let you print out a paper wallet - I understand the possibility of them hanging on to the keys, but it seems like a more "seamless" way to buy bitcoins for the newcomer.
But yes, if I could get that kind of service through one of my current brokers, I'd use them.
Thanks!
December 28, 2013, 08:45:56 PM
This strikes me as an odd discussion....if I want to buy a share of a stock, I don't go to the pit on wall street and start waving my arms, I just log onto TrowePrice or Vanguard or whatever and set an order, they buy it and I'm good to go.
As far as I can tell, Coinbase does the same thing- yes, it would be nice to set limit orders etc., and I'm sure that will come, but basically it's a financial service that takes care of all the details.
DieJohnny, why didn't you send him to Coinbase to buy a few coins? Yes, Coinbase could be hacked, etc. but so could a Vanguard account - it's all about the reliability of the company, and the methods they use to safeguard my investment.
Yes, I get the whole "setting up a digital wallet safe from any intrusion" aspect....but most folks like myself are going to buy and sell and move bitcoins like we move stocks and bonds, through a service that handles the technical mumbo-jumbo.
Is there something I'm not understanding here?
As far as I can tell, Coinbase does the same thing- yes, it would be nice to set limit orders etc., and I'm sure that will come, but basically it's a financial service that takes care of all the details.
DieJohnny, why didn't you send him to Coinbase to buy a few coins? Yes, Coinbase could be hacked, etc. but so could a Vanguard account - it's all about the reliability of the company, and the methods they use to safeguard my investment.
Yes, I get the whole "setting up a digital wallet safe from any intrusion" aspect....but most folks like myself are going to buy and sell and move bitcoins like we move stocks and bonds, through a service that handles the technical mumbo-jumbo.
Is there something I'm not understanding here?
First, everyone in the USA has heard of TRowePrice. The level of trust for them is 1000 times greater than Coinbase, which I guarantee you nobody outside of Bitcoin world has ever heard of.
Second, the mass market of investors out there do not EVER log onto any site and do any trading, they call their trusted broker and ask him advice. Why do you think these investment companies spend millions on ads that investing is about trust, nothing more. Its because that is what most people want to do. Trust a big company and a familiar face.
I may be wrong on this but i think that if you buy and sell stocks and bonds yourself, then you don't represent the bulk of investors in the world.
You can wish trust upon the Bitcoin ecosystem but I assure you it is not there yet. Trust takes time OR requires names people already know.
I didn't recommend Coinbase because frankly I don't trust it or any exchange enough to recommend them as a safe haven for any of their investment dollars. Not a single exchange approaches the level of trust that you get by using a Federally backed entity that they are familiar with. I put my own money in these exchanges because I am built to not care, it is who I am-- I like rolling the dice. I am the outlier, not the masses.
Using a paper wallet was the only recommendation I felt safe enough and easy enough to offer to my family, maybe you would be different, this was my experience.
You are right though, if TRowePrice offered a Bitcoin fund, there would be a lot of takers.
December 28, 2013, 08:32:33 PM
Ah, now I'm starting to get it....part of the appeal of bitcoin is the complexity, just like the early microprocessor hobbyists.....(which I was one of).
I guess navigating wallet creation, protocols, security methods, etc. is the fun part for lots of folks on the forum, but if it's going to be widely accepted and used, access to the bitcoin system is going to have to be a "point and click" application just like paypal.
Fortunately, just like the micro revolution, I suspect businessmen will move in and make it usable for "the rest of us". It'll be much more boring for the bitcoin hobbyists, but lots better for the general populace.
I guess navigating wallet creation, protocols, security methods, etc. is the fun part for lots of folks on the forum, but if it's going to be widely accepted and used, access to the bitcoin system is going to have to be a "point and click" application just like paypal.
Fortunately, just like the micro revolution, I suspect businessmen will move in and make it usable for "the rest of us". It'll be much more boring for the bitcoin hobbyists, but lots better for the general populace.
It's really not that complex.
Still the things you're talking about are already happening. Just look at this example: http://www.bitcointrezor.com/
December 28, 2013, 08:30:25 PM
Ah, now I'm starting to get it....part of the appeal of bitcoin is the complexity, just like the early microprocessor hobbyists.....(which I was one of).
I guess navigating wallet creation, protocols, security methods, etc. is the fun part for lots of folks on the forum, but if it's going to be widely accepted and used, access to the bitcoin system is going to have to be a "point and click" application just like paypal.
Fortunately, just like the micro revolution, I suspect businessmen will move in and make it usable for "the rest of us". It'll be much more boring for the bitcoin hobbyists, but lots better for the general populace.
I guess navigating wallet creation, protocols, security methods, etc. is the fun part for lots of folks on the forum, but if it's going to be widely accepted and used, access to the bitcoin system is going to have to be a "point and click" application just like paypal.
Fortunately, just like the micro revolution, I suspect businessmen will move in and make it usable for "the rest of us". It'll be much more boring for the bitcoin hobbyists, but lots better for the general populace.
December 28, 2013, 08:26:07 PM
This strikes me as an odd discussion....if I want to buy a share of a stock, I don't go to the pit on wall street and start waving my arms, I just log onto TrowePrice or Vanguard or whatever and set an order, they buy it and I'm good to go.
As far as I can tell, Coinbase does the same thing- yes, it would be nice to set limit orders etc., and I'm sure that will come, but basically it's a financial service that takes care of all the details.
DieJohnny, why didn't you send him to Coinbase to buy a few coins? Yes, Coinbase could be hacked, etc. but so could a Vanguard account - it's all about the reliability of the company, and the methods they use to safeguard my investment.
Yes, I get the whole "setting up a digital wallet safe from any intrusion" aspect....but most folks like myself are going to buy and sell and move bitcoins like we move stocks and bonds, through a service that handles the technical mumbo-jumbo.
Is there something I'm not understanding here?
As far as I can tell, Coinbase does the same thing- yes, it would be nice to set limit orders etc., and I'm sure that will come, but basically it's a financial service that takes care of all the details.
DieJohnny, why didn't you send him to Coinbase to buy a few coins? Yes, Coinbase could be hacked, etc. but so could a Vanguard account - it's all about the reliability of the company, and the methods they use to safeguard my investment.
Yes, I get the whole "setting up a digital wallet safe from any intrusion" aspect....but most folks like myself are going to buy and sell and move bitcoins like we move stocks and bonds, through a service that handles the technical mumbo-jumbo.
Is there something I'm not understanding here?
Yep that's a better way to put it. Bitcoin isn't some weird internet money, it's just like an stock which will go boom boom boom to the moon and now suddenly everybody wants a piece of it
But, wait a moment, it will be cheaper soon
Now I'm off to bed before all the bulls come to throw stones at me...
hmm, we are not buying/selling at a loss. Simply: I do not understand your trading strategy.
December 28, 2013, 08:24:58 PM
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOzSm_gA_PUoG4O2lOC9xKkQNhnULOkKXIKApOK6DPlRfbfDW4
*throws stone* at Gandhi! At least I'm not worse than the British
*throws stone* at Gandhi! At least I'm not worse than the British
December 28, 2013, 08:18:56 PM
This strikes me as an odd discussion....if I want to buy a share of a stock, I don't go to the pit on wall street and start waving my arms, I just log onto TrowePrice or Vanguard or whatever and set an order, they buy it and I'm good to go.
As far as I can tell, Coinbase does the same thing- yes, it would be nice to set limit orders etc., and I'm sure that will come, but basically it's a financial service that takes care of all the details.
DieJohnny, why didn't you send him to Coinbase to buy a few coins? Yes, Coinbase could be hacked, etc. but so could a Vanguard account - it's all about the reliability of the company, and the methods they use to safeguard my investment.
Yes, I get the whole "setting up a digital wallet safe from any intrusion" aspect....but most folks like myself are going to buy and sell and move bitcoins like we move stocks and bonds, through a service that handles the technical mumbo-jumbo.
Is there something I'm not understanding here?
As far as I can tell, Coinbase does the same thing- yes, it would be nice to set limit orders etc., and I'm sure that will come, but basically it's a financial service that takes care of all the details.
DieJohnny, why didn't you send him to Coinbase to buy a few coins? Yes, Coinbase could be hacked, etc. but so could a Vanguard account - it's all about the reliability of the company, and the methods they use to safeguard my investment.
Yes, I get the whole "setting up a digital wallet safe from any intrusion" aspect....but most folks like myself are going to buy and sell and move bitcoins like we move stocks and bonds, through a service that handles the technical mumbo-jumbo.
Is there something I'm not understanding here?
Yep that's a better way to put it. Bitcoin isn't some weird internet money, it's just like an stock which will go boom boom boom to the moon and now suddenly everybody wants a piece of it
But, wait a moment, it will be cheaper soon
Now I'm off to bed before all the bulls come to throw stones at me...
December 28, 2013, 08:16:47 PM
Is there something I'm not understanding here?
bitcoin is the future.if you can't handle the concept of setting up a wallet and securing your funds.
you're going to die.
cheers!
December 28, 2013, 08:02:07 PM
December 28, 2013, 07:54:28 PM
This strikes me as an odd discussion....if I want to buy a share of a stock, I don't go to the pit on wall street and start waving my arms, I just log onto TrowePrice or Vanguard or whatever and set an order, they buy it and I'm good to go.
As far as I can tell, Coinbase does the same thing- yes, it would be nice to set limit orders etc., and I'm sure that will come, but basically it's a financial service that takes care of all the details.
DieJohnny, why didn't you send him to Coinbase to buy a few coins? Yes, Coinbase could be hacked, etc. but so could a Vanguard account - it's all about the reliability of the company, and the methods they use to safeguard my investment.
Yes, I get the whole "setting up a digital wallet safe from any intrusion" aspect....but most folks like myself are going to buy and sell and move bitcoins like we move stocks and bonds, through a service that handles the technical mumbo-jumbo.
Is there something I'm not understanding here?
As far as I can tell, Coinbase does the same thing- yes, it would be nice to set limit orders etc., and I'm sure that will come, but basically it's a financial service that takes care of all the details.
DieJohnny, why didn't you send him to Coinbase to buy a few coins? Yes, Coinbase could be hacked, etc. but so could a Vanguard account - it's all about the reliability of the company, and the methods they use to safeguard my investment.
Yes, I get the whole "setting up a digital wallet safe from any intrusion" aspect....but most folks like myself are going to buy and sell and move bitcoins like we move stocks and bonds, through a service that handles the technical mumbo-jumbo.
Is there something I'm not understanding here?
December 28, 2013, 07:51:26 PM
You do realize that now and for a long time from now bitcoin system will still be "creating money out of thin air".
And the US debt ceiling is just as rigid and final as the 21 million Bitcoin ceiling, right?
Plus the difficulty of mining bitcoins will increase whereas printing money is just as easy
December 28, 2013, 07:48:18 PM
You do realize that now and for a long time from now bitcoin system will still be "creating money out of thin air".
And the US debt ceiling is just as rigid and final as the 21 million Bitcoin ceiling, right?
December 28, 2013, 07:47:42 PM
Someone needs to make this forum idiot proof. I long for the days that BCTalk had a hold on new registrations. (this is not necessarily directed at you)
But it could be
there are a LOT of questions and statements that could be resolved by a small amount of research.
December 28, 2013, 07:39:20 PM
Interesting read:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/28/bitcoin-is-evil/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto&_r=1&
Even more interesting though, are the comments of the readers. Am I the only one here that thinks that Krugman is paid to stand for fiat money? His arguments find me completely indifferent.
Heh... probably talking to the wrong people (intentionally that is...).
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/28/bitcoin-is-evil/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto&_r=1&
Even more interesting though, are the comments of the readers. Am I the only one here that thinks that Krugman is paid to stand for fiat money? His arguments find me completely indifferent.
Quote
I have had and am continuing to have a dialogue with smart technologists who are very high on BitCoin — but when I try to get them to explain to me why BitCoin is a reliable store of value, they always seem to come back with explanations about how it’s a terrific medium of exchange. Even if I buy this (which I don’t, entirely), it doesn’t solve my problem. And I haven’t been able to get my correspondents to recognize that these are different questions.
Heh... probably talking to the wrong people (intentionally that is...).
He's also fundamentally missing it. A part of why it is a reliable store of value is connected to the value of it being a terrific medium of exchange. By carving out parts of his interlocutor's response categorically, shows that he hasn't taken a close enough look at it.
It is reliable.
It creates a public record of trade. Stored for posterity.
By using it we enter into these records. It connects us to each other.
It is fundamentally better in many important ways, even for governments, than what governments are getting from the central bankers. If that isn't valuable, what is?
My best reason would be "impossible to create money out of thin air". But he's all about "Federal Reserve’s role as actual dollar source, and its commitment not to allow deflation to happen." I mean WTF? Is he for real? They CONTROL the thing! Oh well...
December 28, 2013, 07:38:37 PM
Long term perspective is generally even more difficult to predict. Based on how peak/correction cycles played out historically, I would be extremely surprised if we've already seen the end of the correction. Late January/Early February is more likely based on how previous corrections played out wrt time. Price targets are difficult because it all depends on whether the December 18 low was really the bottom, or just an intermediate step in a larger more forceful downtrend, or alternatively, a long drawn out decline. I still see the possibility that daily SMA100 was active as support on that crash, and the final capitulation will be higher than the low of December 18, but that's not a strong conviction I hold, at best an informed guess.
It doesn't seem like you've factored in the kinds of changes - "mass-adoption" (or at least evolving mass-awareness thanks to increased media coverage), developing services, etc. - that have led to some calling this the "tipping point" for Bitcoin. Of course it is impossible to give precise mathematical indicators in this respect but qualitatively speaking things are not the same now as they were historically. That said, the December 18 low of $450 fits well in comparison with history.
We are nowhere close to mass adoption, not by a long shot. I just spent dinner with my extended family where there were five middle aged wealthy men attending (not overly wealthy, just have nice jobs, equity in their homes, investments, et cetera). Not a single one of them knew anything more than Bitcoin by name. NONE of them were interested at all in investing in Bitcoin, too risky, too strange, to difficult to even understand for them.
I spent 15 minutes discussing Bitcoin with the most open minded of the bunch. He wanted to know what he would do to even buy a single coin. Holy crap, what method was I going to suggest to this guy who can barely get Skype to work correctly. I chose a paper wallet and Local Bitcoins. He thought it was reasonable, however, i could tell by the look in his eyes there was no way in Hell he was going to invest a single dollar any time soon.
The masses ARE NOT early adopters, they will not do research, take a chance, learn about digital wallets, trust some web site exchange or anything of the sort. If it isn't offered by their broker, or banker, or something they can buy at the local Gold dealer, then they are not interested. BITCOIN right now seems a world away from this mass adoption. A WORLD AWAY.
We are still in speculative, niche phase that has a long way to go to play out. It is the biggest reason Bitcoin can fail because if another Crypto steps in and solves these access problems look out. Guys like those in my family DO NOT care about the virtues of Bitcoin's distributed, non-regulated, anti-govt protocol. They will invest in the first thing that is 1) accessible 2) available to them through standard channels 3) endorsed by things they trust: banks, govts, large companies.
That said the price may go to $2000 in the next month
, or $200....average person needs to hear about something several times over a period of time before the idea is planted. after hearing about another 1-2 "bubbles"/something else that attracts mainstream attention, they will begin researching it etc and might start investing. right now, a lot of people might have heard of bitcoins but most have no idea of what it actually is and the potential it has to change the world.
December 28, 2013, 07:36:23 PM
Someone needs to make this forum engrish
Fixed.
PS. Not necessarily directed at you
December 28, 2013, 07:34:08 PM
Long term perspective is generally even more difficult to predict. Based on how peak/correction cycles played out historically, I would be extremely surprised if we've already seen the end of the correction. Late January/Early February is more likely based on how previous corrections played out wrt time. Price targets are difficult because it all depends on whether the December 18 low was really the bottom, or just an intermediate step in a larger more forceful downtrend, or alternatively, a long drawn out decline. I still see the possibility that daily SMA100 was active as support on that crash, and the final capitulation will be higher than the low of December 18, but that's not a strong conviction I hold, at best an informed guess.
It doesn't seem like you've factored in the kinds of changes - "mass-adoption" (or at least evolving mass-awareness thanks to increased media coverage), developing services, etc. - that have led to some calling this the "tipping point" for Bitcoin. Of course it is impossible to give precise mathematical indicators in this respect but qualitatively speaking things are not the same now as they were historically. That said, the December 18 low of $450 fits well in comparison with history.
We are nowhere close to mass adoption, not by a long shot. I just spent dinner with my extended family where there were five middle aged wealthy men attending (not overly wealthy, just have nice jobs, equity in their homes, investments, et cetera). Not a single one of them knew anything more than Bitcoin by name. NONE of them were interested at all in investing in Bitcoin, too risky, too strange, to difficult to even understand for them.
I spent 15 minutes discussing Bitcoin with the most open minded of the bunch. He wanted to know what he would do to even buy a single coin. Holy crap, what method was I going to suggest to this guy who can barely get Skype to work correctly. I chose a paper wallet and Local Bitcoins. He thought it was reasonable, however, i could tell by the look in his eyes there was no way in Hell he was going to invest a single dollar any time soon.
The masses ARE NOT early adopters, they will not do research, take a chance, learn about digital wallets, trust some web site exchange or anything of the sort. If it isn't offered by their broker, or banker, or something they can buy at the local Gold dealer, then they are not interested. BITCOIN right now seems a world away from this mass adoption. A WORLD AWAY.
We are still in speculative, niche phase that has a long way to go to play out. It is the biggest reason Bitcoin can fail because if another Crypto steps in and solves these access problems look out. Guys like those in my family DO NOT going to care about the virtues of Bitcoin's distributed, non-regulated, anti-govt protocol. They will invest in the first thing that is 1) accessible 2) available to them through standard channels 3) endorsed by things they trust: banks, govts, large companies.
That said the price may go to $2000 in the next month
, or $200....agree
need someone to make bitcoin idiot proof and attract the masses
Someone needs to make this forum idiot proof. I long for the days that BCTalk had a hold on new registrations. (this is not necessarily directed at you)
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