Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking &amp; discussion - page 32681. (Read 26709945 times)

Quote from: crumbs on August 31, 2013, 04:06:02 PM

Quote from: Kazu on August 31, 2013, 04:08:47 PM

They aren't wasted because you get Bitcoins for them.

Nope, that's just a neat way of distributing the currency.

It's neat, but not efficient. A miner is left on as long as the bitcoins it produces are worth more than the power cost of producing them. In other words, in a (plausible) worst-case scenario, each bitcoin mined will cost just a fraction below the power burned to mine it. If the FED was working on that kind of margin, people might be even moar pissed Cheesy

My point was that the Bitcoin network's main purpose is not creating/distributing bitcoins.

My point is regardless of intended purpose, miners are mining for profit. That's why millions of dollars are being spent on developing ASICs which will burn trillions of KWs of energy -- or the total value of bitcoins they produce, whichever's greater Cheesy

Intent is only important to Baby Jesus.

The original conversation was about wasted resources. The poster "Kazu" suggested that the resources are not wasted because bitcoins are created in the process.

The resources are not wasted because they power a network which allows anyone, anywhere in the world, to transfer value to anyone, anywhere in the world, without requiring permission from a third party. It also allows individuals to store value without risk of seizure. The more resources the honest nodes employ, the more resources the dishonest nodes will require to attack the network. Since I value the properties of the network, I do not consider those resources employed by the honest nodes to be wasted.

None of this has anything to do with coin creation and distribution, nor those who profit from it.

I didn't realize we were quibbling over semantics. Nothing is wasted if someone derives something from it, even when the derived value is the simple joy of knowing how much you have wasted.

If the convenience of sending a dollar around the world is worth a hundred dollars of burnt electricity to you, who am i to argue? Value is subjective, you're correct.

crumbs

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...
Actually they sort of have. These costs are factored into the cost of the material from which the bill is made.

And, of course, we're talking dollar bills -- the cost of printing fives, tens & twenties doesn't go up proportionately. Perhaps we could petition the FED to make money last *loo0nger* -- that'll save us money Cheesy

Kazu

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Merit: 100

Quote from: Kazu on August 31, 2013, 03:56:00 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 31, 2013, 03:32:01 PM

They aren't wasted because you get Bitcoins for them.

Nope, that's just a neat way of distributing the currency.

It's neat, but not efficient. A miner is left on as long as the bitcoins it produces are worth more than the power cost of producing them. In other words, in a (plausible) worst-case scenario, each bitcoin mined will cost just a fraction below the power burned to mine it. If the FED was working on that kind of margin, people might be even moar pissed Cheesy

All bills $50 and below cost more to print than their face value.

Wow, didn't know that. A link?

Edit: "Answer
The printing and reproduction of the dollar bill is a task that is reserved for the US government. Details on the procedure are not in the public domain for obvious reasons. However, the estimated cost of one dollar bill has been placed at around 8 to 9 cents per dollar bill." -- not authoritative, but unless you have some better sauce, i'm going with that.

You aren't counting the fact that they have to re-print the bill every period of time. I was looking for a source until I found this: http://advancedriskology.com/the-day-i-bought-15000/. Then I had a really good time and figured I'd find a source later.

I'm certain that they haven't considered the cost from when the cotton seed is placed in soil, nor for what that soil could otherwise be used.

Actually they sort of have. These costs are factored into the cost of the material from which the bill is made.

crumbs

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Quote from: Kazu on August 31, 2013, 03:56:00 PM

Quote from: crumbs on August 31, 2013, 03:32:01 PM

They aren't wasted because you get Bitcoins for them.

Nope, that's just a neat way of distributing the currency.

It's neat, but not efficient. A miner is left on as long as the bitcoins it produces are worth more than the power cost of producing them. In other words, in a (plausible) worst-case scenario, each bitcoin mined will cost just a fraction below the power burned to mine it. If the FED was working on that kind of margin, people might be even moar pissed Cheesy

All bills $50 and below cost more to print than their face value.

Wow, didn't know that. A link?

Edit: "Answer
The printing and reproduction of the dollar bill is a task that is reserved for the US government. Details on the procedure are not in the public domain for obvious reasons. However, the estimated cost of one dollar bill has been placed at around 8 to 9 cents per dollar bill." -- not authoritative, but unless you have some better sauce, i'm going with that.

You aren't counting the fact that they have to re-print the bill every period of time. I was looking for a source until I found this: http://advancedriskology.com/the-day-i-bought-15000/. Then I had a really good time and figured I'd find a source later.

I'm certain that they haven't considered the cost from when the cotton seed is placed in soil, nor for what that soil could otherwise be used.

I'm certain they haven't considered the cost of creating the universe which contains the sun which makes the seeds grow either, what's your point?

Edit: When you buy a book, presume all the costs are covered, including the cost of growing the tree that makes the paper that the bookbinder uses to make the book.

crumbs

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Quote from: bobdude17 on August 31, 2013, 03:53:07 PM

They aren't wasted because you get Bitcoins for them.

Nope, that's just a neat way of distributing the currency.

It's neat, but not efficient. A miner is left on as long as the bitcoins it produces are worth more than the power cost of producing them. In other words, in a (plausible) worst-case scenario, each bitcoin mined will cost just a fraction below the power burned to mine it. If the FED was working on that kind of margin, people might be even moar pissed Cheesy

My point was that the Bitcoin network's main purpose is not creating/distributing bitcoins.

My point is regardless of intended purpose, miners are mining for profit. That's why millions of dollars are being spent on developing ASICs which will burn trillions of KWs of energy -- or the total value of bitcoins they produce, whichever's greater Cheesy

Intent is only important to Baby Jesus.

byronbb

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HODL OR DIE

Lots of order book dancing going on...

ChartBuddy

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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Walsoraj

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Ultranode

Sooo.. what happens at 150?

Probably rocket past +200, then once Ask-Sum is depleted we crash to new lows. Single digits, maybe .67 cents even

Kazu

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Activity: 168

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Quote from: crumbs on August 31, 2013, 03:32:01 PM

They aren't wasted because you get Bitcoins for them.

Nope, that's just a neat way of distributing the currency.

It's neat, but not efficient. A miner is left on as long as the bitcoins it produces are worth more than the power cost of producing them. In other words, in a (plausible) worst-case scenario, each bitcoin mined will cost just a fraction below the power burned to mine it. If the FED was working on that kind of margin, people might be even moar pissed Cheesy

All bills $50 and below cost more to print than their face value.

Wow, didn't know that. A link?

Edit: "Answer
The printing and reproduction of the dollar bill is a task that is reserved for the US government. Details on the procedure are not in the public domain for obvious reasons. However, the estimated cost of one dollar bill has been placed at around 8 to 9 cents per dollar bill." -- not authoritative, but unless you have some better sauce, i'm going with that.

You aren't counting the fact that they have to re-print the bill every period of time. I was looking for a source until I found this: http://advancedriskology.com/the-day-i-bought-15000/. Then I had a really good time and figured I'd find a source later.

bobdude17

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Sooo.. what happens at 150?

crumbs

full member

Activity: 210

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They aren't wasted because you get Bitcoins for them.

Nope, that's just a neat way of distributing the currency.

It's neat, but not efficient. A miner is left on as long as the bitcoins it produces are worth more than the power cost of producing them. In other words, in a (plausible) worst-case scenario, each bitcoin mined will cost just a fraction below the power burned to mine it. If the FED was working on that kind of margin, people might be even moar pissed Cheesy

All bills $50 and below cost more to print than their face value.

Wow, didn't know that. A link?

Edit:
"... Details on the procedure are not in the public domain for obvious reasons. However, the estimated cost of one dollar bill has been placed at around 8 to 9 cents per dollar bill." -- not authoritative, but unless you have some better sauce, i'm going with that.

Kazu

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Activity: 168

Merit: 100

They aren't wasted because you get Bitcoins for them.

Nope, that's just a neat way of distributing the currency.

It's neat, but not efficient. A miner is left on as long as the bitcoins it produces are worth more than the power cost of producing them. In other words, in a (plausible) worst-case scenario, each bitcoin mined will cost just a fraction below the power burned to mine it. If the FED was working on that kind of margin, people might be even moar pissed Cheesy

All bills $50 and below cost more to print than their face value.

crumbs

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Quote from: Kazu on August 31, 2013, 02:50:40 PM

They aren't wasted because you get Bitcoins for them.

Nope, that's just a neat way of distributing the currency.

It's neat, but not efficient. A miner is left on as long as the bitcoins it produces are worth more than the power cost of producing them. In other words, in a (plausible) worst-case scenario, each bitcoin mined will cost just a fraction below the power burned to mine it. If the FED was working on that kind of margin, people might be even moar pissed Cheesy

LightRider

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I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.

Quote from: World on August 31, 2013, 02:48:47 PM

Quote from: Wekkel on August 31, 2013, 02:32:41 PM

Quote from: World on August 31, 2013, 02:28:14 PM

Up to $250 per BTC
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283820.0;all

I don't see the connection with $250.

DeathAndTaxes is very good at math.I really like his posts.

Quote

For example 65 million difficulty gaining 75% per month for a year results in 50 billion difficulty. The electrical cost even at 1W/GH and $0.10 per kWh would >$250 per BTC.

This is actually pretty funny. The basis of a currency is how many resources must be wasted to make it. I like.

Waste and inefficiency is the basis for any monetary system. Capitalism thrives on overpricduction and overconsumpton. If you want a sane economic model, look into a resource based economy.

Kazu

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