Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 33171. (Read 26496942 times)
June 12, 2013, 07:22:20 AM
starting to get a little more exciting now
June 12, 2013, 07:19:41 AM
I'll go for *potentially* game changing.
I dream of a hardware miner/wallet that you'd use as your home ATM...plug and play, secure.
That's a pretty cool idea. However, that assumes that what is being kept secure, is still valuable. With this manipulation and no safeguards in place any big money player can destroy Bitcoin. I didn't realize that before, but now it is blatantly clear. Let's use any government that has $1 billion to spare.
They could build massive mining rigs and with the rest, purchase BTC slowly. It wouldn't take long before they would control enough BTC to just continually smash the markets with wave after wave of coordinated "dump attacks". All confidence would be would be lost. Current investors would flee into other currencies and investments. Potential investors would stay away from a corrupt and manipulated currency. It's actually a better Achilles heel than any regulation could dream of having.
So in the end, Bitcoin's greatest weakness, is it's very own principles of non-regulation. The irony is quite amusing.
The BTC ecosystem is still nascent and, as such, still very fragile. The attack you describe would be a good, if expensive way to hurt it but the opportunity window for it is closing as adoption increases.
June 12, 2013, 07:19:04 AM
There is some small ideas and big ideas to enforce BTC, though. We already gave Bitcointip in Haikko, and I am likely extending it to Punavuori (an area in the center part of Helsinki where about 5000-10000 people live). We will dole out free millibitcoins as bills, and inform all the restaurants there that if they serve their clients well, they will receive tips (because tips are already there in the hands of their clientele - we have give them out for free to all the inhabitants
)Then the restaurants can cash them in for euros, or redeem them for actual bitcoins. Or keep them in circulation as bitcoin-denominated change.
My idea is to start with 5, 10, 20 so very small notes that we give out for free and prepare that many do not care. But some will, and that's going to be fun
You gave away notes worth 5-20 Euro to 5,000-10,000 people?
That's a 75,000 Euro giveaway, right?
I don't see this helping Bitcoin as the notes can be readily converted into fiat. Only people already interested in Bitcoin will see the notes as BTC.
I guess the idea is to get them interested?
June 12, 2013, 07:16:27 AM
There is some small ideas and big ideas to enforce BTC, though. We already gave Bitcointip in Haikko, and I am likely extending it to Punavuori (an area in the center part of Helsinki where about 5000-10000 people live). We will dole out free millibitcoins as bills, and inform all the restaurants there that if they serve their clients well, they will receive tips (because tips are already there in the hands of their clientele - we have give them out for free to all the inhabitants
)Then the restaurants can cash them in for euros, or redeem them for actual bitcoins. Or keep them in circulation as bitcoin-denominated change.
My idea is to start with 5, 10, 20 so very small notes that we give out for free and prepare that many do not care. But some will, and that's going to be fun
You gave away notes worth 5-20 Euro to 5,000-10,000 people?
That's a 75,000 Euro giveaway, right?
I don't see this helping Bitcoin as the notes can be readily converted into fiat. Only people already interested in Bitcoin will see the notes as BTC.
June 12, 2013, 07:15:35 AM
Where is your panic buy, Adam? 
To be fair he did say $111 ... here she blows ...
June 12, 2013, 07:15:00 AM
$111 broken. Time to panic buy, for whoever is crazy enough to still hold fiat 
June 12, 2013, 07:14:22 AM
$111 broken. Time to panic buy, for whoever is crazy enough to still hold fiat
June 12, 2013, 07:12:37 AM
Where is your panic buy, Adam?
June 12, 2013, 07:11:58 AM
I'll go for *potentially* game changing.
I dream of a hardware miner/wallet that you'd use as your home ATM...plug and play, secure.
That's a pretty cool idea. However, that assumes that what is being kept secure, is still valuable. With this manipulation and no safeguards in place any big money player can destroy Bitcoin. I didn't realize that before, but now it is blatantly clear. Let's use any government that has $1 billion to spare.
They could build massive mining rigs and with the rest, purchase BTC slowly. It wouldn't take long before they would control enough BTC to just continually smash the markets with wave after wave of coordinated "dump attacks". All confidence would be would be lost. Current investors would flee into other currencies and investments. Potential investors would stay away from a corrupt and manipulated currency. It's actually a better Achilles heel than any regulation could dream of having.
So in the end, Bitcoin's greatest weakness, is it's very own principles of non-regulation. The irony is quite amusing.
Worst. Attack. Idea. Ever.
The attacker would be dumping free money until he/she runs out and then the system would continue to run as usual.
Indeed they are free to donate their money to the market. Then again, it isn't really their money to begin with is it?
BTC is so tiny that the FED could just buy enough BTC to make it skyrocket in en epic pump, then crash it to single digits, creating a few notable fortunes and ruining millions of people on the way. Burning people with BTC seems indeed more effective than simply banning it.
Still, they would be burning piles of money, this is an expensive stunt to perform, "affordable" only by an economic super-power willing to virtually destroy money to try to get rid of Bitcoin. BTC is still too small to deserve such kind of attention, if they decide to play the pump&dump game they really need to go till the end, waking up the sleeping monster
In a few years, not even the FED may afford such kind of attack. And if they do, it will be a hell of a ride and nice fight. Keep'em coming.
The idea is to decentralize even more by making the technology easier to use by a wider audience. A BTC blackbox, a BTC credit card etc (or rpietila's paper BTC IOUs - hmmm like Ripple
) are what's needed.We need to take the geek side out of the Bitcoin use. Make it easy to use so people can simply ignore the technology behind it and use it as they would any other currency (and each device should be a miner, to process transactions and secure the network). That's when mass adoption can really start.
OTOH, I also think that Bitcoin will be superseded, eventually, and possibly even by a GOV-launched coin (best way to beat BTC is to make it irrelevant), unless we reach critical mass within a short period of time (less than 10 years from introduction).
June 12, 2013, 07:08:11 AM
Still no volume. Perhaps the volume will come along if it keeps slowly grinding along towards 115 but I still don't trust this 'rally' and will keep watching from the sidelines.
I just hope there won't be another sunday dump which will make all this pointless.
You think there won't be any preemptive dumps?
June 12, 2013, 07:06:18 AM
Still no volume. Perhaps the volume will come along if it keeps slowly grinding along towards 115 but I still don't trust this 'rally' and will keep watching from the sidelines.
I just hope there won't be another sunday dump which will make all this pointless.
Not if you're the one pushing it up ready to dump it
Actually TBH if I were Mr Sunday Dumper, I would be doing exactly this, and on top of that, I would probably do a 'head-fake' this Sunday and buy instead of sell to catch anyone out who was anticipating a repeat. That would probably move the market up quite a bit. That presumes of course, that I have the luxury of time.
June 12, 2013, 07:02:51 AM
Still no volume. Perhaps the volume will come along if it keeps slowly grinding along towards 115 but I still don't trust this 'rally' and will keep watching from the sidelines.
I just hope there won't be another sunday dump which will make all this pointless.
June 12, 2013, 07:01:07 AM
June 12, 2013, 07:00:23 AM
Still no volume. Perhaps the volume will come along if it keeps slowly grinding along towards 115 but I still don't trust this 'rally' and will keep watching from the sidelines.
June 12, 2013, 07:00:07 AM
Broke 110 again, inb4 panic purchasing.
June 12, 2013, 06:57:46 AM
My IQ is 2.9-sigma, so it is very high (Mensa level is 2.0), but in itself it is meaningless because there are 100-thousands of as intelligent people around.
IQ is a hot potato so let's say my shoe size is -1.6 sigma (so small that it's hard to find) and my length is -1.0 sigma (quite short).
OK, all?
I was not criticising you either Risto
June 12, 2013, 06:57:23 AM
So.... we touched 110 and nothing happened?
We just broke through, keep up!
June 12, 2013, 06:56:18 AM
My IQ is 2.9-sigma, so it is very high (Mensa level is 2.0), but in itself it is meaningless because there are 100-thousands of as intelligent people around.
IQ is a hot potato so let's say my shoe size is -1.6 sigma (so small that it's hard to find) and my length is -1.0 sigma (quite short).
OK, all?
June 12, 2013, 06:50:38 AM
Buy as many bitcoins as you can, until once there is anything that you can do with bitcoins (and the price has risen dramatically as the impact)
Which could be never and that's looking more likely as more businesses snub Bitcoin for other options or even their own options.I think similar things were said in the early days of the internet. We are 4 years into the worlds largest social experiment and you know the answer?
Businesses want to make money. You said you are a capitalist, right. Well, if you could drop visa, mastercard, etc. and increase some of your sales profits by 2%-4%, why would you "snub" that?
From a purely economical point of view (no worries about government intervention), Bitcoin is GREAT for business. Adoption is another matter...
Coinseeker is right. There is a probability that:
- crypto will lose the battle to fiat
- BTC will lose in the battle between cryptos.
There is some small ideas and big ideas to enforce BTC, though. We already gave Bitcointip in Haikko, and I am likely extending it to Punavuori (an area in the center part of Helsinki where about 5000-10000 people live). We will dole out free millibitcoins as bills, and inform all the restaurants there that if they serve their clients well, they will receive tips (because tips are already there in the hands of their clientele - we have give them out for free to all the inhabitants
)Then the restaurants can cash them in for euros, or redeem them for actual bitcoins. Or keep them in circulation as bitcoin-denominated change.
My idea is to start with 5, 10, 20 so very small notes that we give out for free and prepare that many do not care. But some will, and that's going to be fun
June 12, 2013, 06:48:36 AM
So.... we touched 110 and nothing happened?
Jump to: