Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 5343. (Read 26709477 times)

Explanation

Good morning (in spirit, regardless of time zone).



I don't like the look of that last spike, might not mean people are moving wallet BTC to short on exchange, but something is up.

EDIT:

Hmm, perhaps moving BTC back from exchange to wallet, trading is over? That would be great.

Surely you don't think that fees will fall linearly 4x with 4mb blocks right? So how many minutes do you think it'll be, before 4mb blocks get back jammed with 1sat/byte transactions? And that will be the point where people will start making fun of you for trying to run a global currency network on such crappy low end PC. And now clearly you need to upgrade to at least 64gb ram and a 4tb ssd for 8mb blocks. And just few minutes after that will come a need for 8mb blocks with a mid tower, then 16mb, then 32mb with a high end server etc etc etc ...?

So the trade of is, you wipe out Pie nodes while ... achieving absolutely nothing  (or at max managed to drop the fees 25% for few months)

In any case, bitcoin is going the way of an El Salvadorian fisherman with an LN channel on a Pie node transacting his business for fraction of a cent. Surely this is not the end stage and there's plenty that still will need to be improved, but this is a best solution so far, if you think a global currency can keep every transaction on layer one while maintaining decentralization you're delusional.

I feel so bad for all the troubles that you are having with the king daddy, nutildah - especially since you are seeming to be splurging with your payment amounts, too.  

I wonder if your wallet is not very good at fee recommendations, or maybe you are using a fee recommendation service that is not very good at predicting what reasonable fees should be?  Have you used such fee recommendation services in the past?

Can we really blame either king daddy, or lil ole me for your transaction NOT going through as quickly as you would have preferred?

From your response, I take it that you do not want to switch to some other kind of coin?  

Have you concluded that you are using king daddy for the right kinds of transactions or the goals that you are trying to achieve? Or are you thinking that you have gone above and beyond with your extra 3 sats per byte in order to get prompt receipt of your funds into the receiving address?

I am thinking that hopefully, you can just make one last transaction and just get all your coins out of this nightmare in order that you don't have to deal with this stressful situation no more.  What do you think?  

What other options are there? Does the wallet that you are using /or the fee recommendation service have a customer service?  I am pretty sure that bitcoin does not have one, and I don't really feel qualified in that direction, but maybe I can talk with you and make you feel better about your decision to invest into bitcoin for other reasons..? or I could help you create a spreadsheet?  Maybe?

Like you suggested, this store of value concept just might not fly for some people because what good is going to come from something like having all your bitcoin value sitting there and storing such value in bitcoin, but then when it comes time to send such stored value bitcoin somewhere or to cash out in order to realize such stored value, the sending or cashening outening does not workening.  That would really suck, especially if were to need it quickly.. like in less than 5 hours.  amiNOTrite?

Maybe bitcoin is just broken.. completely broken, and it probably sucks for me too, since I have quite a bit of value in dee king daddy, relatively speaking?  

I am not sure whether I should panic at this moment, or maybe just sleep on it?  

The vast majority of the time when I have done my various transactions they have gone through without any meaningful issues.. sure sometimes they take longer than expected.. but hey.. maybe this time is different?  Perhaps?  Maybe transactions are not going to go through no more, even with a 3 sats per byte extra (like a tip)?

I am starting to run out of ideas, besides just crying.  Maybe someone else has some suggestions?


Should we just ignore the BIG blocker blokes?

so, here we are again, discussing block size while the next big bitcoin upgrade is just 140 signaling blocks away.

Explanation

CPB-directeur: Nederland moet bitcoin en andere cryptovaluta verbieden
The director of the Dutch Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis wants his 5 minutes of fame, saying government should ban Bitcoin and other crypto coins, because a crash is inevitable. Then he comes with the argument that the product has no intrinsic value. I guess the Euro will be banned first?
Meanwhile, I'm being taxed in the Netherlands just for owning Bitcoin.

I know one thing: if governments are afraid, Bitcoin is on the right track!

5 hours Jay.

Bitcoin is only a store of value because it can be used as a currency.

And a block did happen between my posts, still unconfirmed.

Its your fault.

I am not moving the goalposts.  Segwit passed and became a part of bitcoin in August 2017.  You are the one who seems to be suggesting that something might need to be done about that or that you are complaining about something that the blocks are not big enough that relate to issues from 2017.. .. so my who fucking cares should suggest to you that you have some kind of burden to show facts and logic for it to be relevant.  

Of course, I am not the only person here, so I may conclude that you have not provided sufficient facts and logic to be persuasive, but others might come to differing conclusions. But



It seems to me that I brought up a whole lot of good points regarding various burdens that are on you to show that there is some kind of issue or problem with bitcoin that needs to be fixed, which to me it seems that you have not done that, but maybe others are going to be persuaded by what I believe to be your ongoing nonsense.

Regarding my choice to respond, I will consider whether to respond or not, and at this point, I cannot think of anything more to say without being more repetitive than I already have been.  Accordingly, it seems to me that the ball is in your court, rather than in mine.. but whatever... you do you.  #nohomo


Maybe you should switch over to Bcash or Bcash SV.  I heard that their transactions are going through without any problems.  There might be some other shitcoins that you could also use that might meet your various transacting needs within the timeline that you would like and for the fees that you would like to pay.

 Perhaps? perhaps?


In the mean time, number go up?  Wen?

Man. Block confirmation times are so fucking wonky right now.

I put in a tx about 5 hours ago, set my sat/byte 3 sats above the recommended, and it still hasn't confirmed.

I've been watching it on the mempool observer. It's been above the 1 MB line every single block and still hasn't been confirmed.

All the while the mempool is falling. Its like everybody is avoiding my TX or something.

I'm ready to try something drastic like switch to big blocks.

Well OK maybe that sounds a bit crazy but somebody needs to get me the manager.

Quit moving the fucking goalposts*. You ask a question and when answered, you go off on another fucking tangent and act like you've made an excellent counter when you're just being a dick. If you don't care, stop replying. It's really that easy.


(For example, you say:)


But that's irrelevant. You were stating that people were upset that segwit wasn't the block size increase (promised in the Hong Kong agreement, signed by several core devs by the way) they wanted and I explained why. That segwit was passed in 2017? True but totally besides the point.

Your walls of text often have little point but that's doubly so when you fail to maintain a coherent thread of an argument. I won't be doing this for the rest of your dribble (I need to hit the sack in any case).

At this point, who fucking cares?   The ideas went through the BIP process in late 2015 and early 2016, code was written, reviewed and tested in early 2016 and middle of 2016, and in about November 2016 the segwit code was included and able to signal.. and had a year to either signal (wasn't it 95%?) or to have to be taken out after November 2017.. Anyhow, various shenanigans and proposals happened in 2017, and by August 2017, the code had achieved 95% signaling and it was locked in and activated in August 2017.  In other words, the code reached the 95% needed consensus.

Since August of 2017, there has been a lot of building on segwit, so if you want it reversed or modified, you have to go through the same or a similar consensus process to get it reversed or modified.  That's not going to happen because it seems to be doing its thing, it is getting built upon, and there is nothing broken about it, as far as I know (or care for that matter).


So what?  It was passed in August 2017 by more than 95% consensus.  It is now part of bitcoin, and people have been building and developing upon it for nearly 4 years.



So the 95% consensus was not real?  the 95% consensus did not happen?  or you are saying that peeps were tricked into agreeing to it, so it was fraudulent consensus?  What is the solution?  nullify segwit?  Does not seem very realistic to me.  Aren't we trying to deal with real scenarios rather than whining about past "could have beens"?



Sure there were a lot of vocal whiners that got increasingly loud starting in about 2017, and even continued quite a while after 2017 - even after they got their own lil forkening..  and sure there are still some straggler whiners, like ur lil selfie, Richy_T.



You are going over it because you are bitter, and you cannot get over it.



I doubt that my memory is perfect, yet who fucking cares what I remember.  If you believe that the history is relevant to getting whatever change that you would like to achieve, then pray tell.  You have the burdens of showing how that might be relevant, and maybe proposing what you would like to do about that now in order that we are going to be able to move forward rather than either whining about the past or whining about how our memories of the past might differ in various ways (that are supposedly relevant to current material issues, perhaps?).



I doubt that you put anything straight.  You just stated some various renditions regarding reasons that you believe that you and your fellow BIG blockers are supposedly victims of injustices.


It only seems to make a difference in the sense that you want to keep talking about it.



That argument seemed to have lost.  Segwit passed, but there was nothing like increasing the blocks that passed... so some of the diptwats decided to fork off into bcash.. which later forked again into bcash sv.. and both of those were opportunities to put your nonsense BIG blocker ideas to work.  From what I understand those to pieces of shit coins are just like bitcoin, except that they have BIG blocks.. What else could you want?



What does that have to do with anything related to bitcoin?  He's some dweeb involved in a shitcoin.. that happens to espouse your ideas of BIG blocks.  I am having some troubles understanding what point(s) if any you are wanting to make except whining about history that is long in the past.  Is there any modern day reason to discuss, including in this here thread?



I would think that part of getting consensus is to convince others to make whatever change that you are proposing.  So if you cannot convince anyone but yourself, then you are not going to get consensus in bitcoin, but you could start your own coin, I suppose.  Starting your own coin worked pretty well for Vitalik, didn't it?


So you are talking about something from 2016?  Not sure about what kicking out Gavin has much to do with anything that we should consider right now at this moment.  Are you trying to suggest that there is some kind of conspiracy to disallow disagreeing voices otherwise they get de-platformed?  Pretty vague accusations, if that is what you are wanting to suggest about something that happened in 2016 in terms of maybe your inability to bring something up now that is surely needed in bitcoin but you are having trouble getting your message out there?



I responded to you.  It's not like I am not cooperating.  I am probably your best friend, here.. because I am acknowledging what you are saying, even though I am largely proclaiming a vast amount of it to be lacking in persuasiveness.. at least so far.. .. but sure, others might differ in their opinions of your presentation of purported relevant information.



You can bring it up every day if you want..   I am not sure how well it will go over.  I am just giving my responses .. last I checked we were in a public thread.. or at least members of the forum can post so long as they do not get their posting privileges removed.


No.  I would prefer not to talk about shitcoins, and I believe that my above response speaks for itself in terms of why I mentioned those bcash shitcoins.


Ok.  No argument from me on that, even though I doubt that the purported "fail" is so "hard" as you are characterizing it to be, if there were any fail at all?...



Maybe bitcoin is not for people who are either getting damaged or they cannot find a use case for bitcoin?



I don't remember either not coping with dissenting voices or spinning off into a hissy fit.  That's news to me.  

I do have opinions on some topics, but not sure where you get that I am feeling threatened, either.

You might need a more specific example?      I probably should just let my various posts speak for themselves rather than going into more seeming irrelevance than you already seem to be leading.


You have some kind of proposal then?  I thought that submitting a BIP would be the right way to go forward with some kinds of proposals.  My way of dealing with a lot of the matters related to bitcoin is to figure out for myself if I am going to buy any or not and how much I am going to buy, so I have not participated in the BIP process because I am already happy with various ways that I use BTC, and it seems to be working pretty good for me so far.. of course, sometimes I do have to learn new things such as how to hold my coins or where to put them.



Again, we're in a public thread, so if you posted in the thread then anyone can respond to whatever you said or did not say or whatever any member wants to say that might be responsive to what you said or not.


I think that my various responses, so far, have been appropriate, adequate and within my discretion regarding what to write or not to write, and was not meant as any attempt to silence you or your bot, even if i believe you said a lot of dumb, whining about the past and irrelevant things, and even though I believe that you have failed and refused to provide evidence or logic why any of us should give any shits about your vague BIGblocker supposedly in good faith ongoing nonsense.  You still have rights to continue to say such ongoingly dumb things, and maybe after a while some of us might start to accuse you of trying to derail or shill the thread with such ongoing nonsense rather than really contributing anything of value... but then hey what are you shilling besides bitcoin naysaying and BIG blocker nonsense?  maybe it will start to make sense at some point, perhaps? perhaps? but I am having my doubts since you kind of seem to be stuck in the past nonsense and get stuck in the weeds of irrelevancies about supposedly being locked out rather than really presenting any current problem that bitcoin has or presenting some meaningful way forward.. or that might have some resonance with anyone besides yourself or maybe even taking that to some other thread .. because we have gone through a lot of that stuff already, and it does not all of a sudden become relevant because time has past but you still do not have facts or logic to show that it is an important topic.. so it seems to me.. at least as of the time of my typing this post.

That first PC is already plenty beefy. Pruning can reduce the storage requirements and UTXO checkpoints (if added) even moreso It's pretty much the specs of my VR rig (not including the GPU). If you want a record of every transaction on the chain, even spent ones, you'd need extra storage but that's niche for most people and not horribly expensive if you do.

Yes, one voice going it alone would make all the difference. It's not like they kicked Gavin out of the repository where previously he was previously the head maintainer. Except they did with a bullshit excuse.

Look, there's a discussion to be had and I'm going to say my piece. Just get over it. We can go back to your regularly scheduled walls of nonsense shortly. It only comes up every 2-3 months and doesn't last long.


Why are we talking about "shitcoins"? Are you trying to trap me into talking about them so you can accuse me of shilling for them? Hard fail on that. Not relevant. We are talking about Bitcoin here. The negatives of restricting the block size so small continue to bring about things like high fees and potentially worse, unpredictable fees. The stories of the problems these cause people are real.

You gotta learn to be able to cope with dissenting voices without spinning off into a hissy-fit. Why does it threaten you so much?

[By the way, you do know that BIPs are very centralized, right? This is a major problem I have with the small blocker side, they're quite happy with centralization when it suits them and it tends to only be a concern in hand-wavy ways when it is]

Moreover, I was responding to Hueristic's post https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57204534 . If you're trying to silence my voice, then fuck you and you have no right to poo-poo my statements about others being silenced with an attitude like that.

With what I was describing it could be set in the variables that 100mb blocks would be completely cost prohibited. Did you even read what I wrote? Maybe I should flow chart it for you so that you can grasp the variables that would make such a system live within a specific set of rules all of which are taken from a previous set of rules that already exist and therefore follow a similar trend without having the ability to change rapidly.


Nevermind after reading the responses its apparent this subject still can't be talked about without insults flying around.

but you can now buy a used small form factor like a dell for 200 bucks.

toss in 32gb ram.

a 2 tb ssd and probably go up to a 4 mb block. as long as you have at least 100mbs internet.

beyond that block size you need more power and faster internet.

but a pc with 128gb ram

 i7 core

4tb ssd and 200mbs internet

starts to become costly.

Explanation

Seems to me that your ongoing persistence on this topic strives to presume that something is actually broken in bitcoin, and that is not true.

If you want to make a proposal to change something that is already existing, then you have the burden to provide evidence to support your claims as to why such change is needed and preferable over the status quo and also to provide the logic and argument to persuade why a change is needed. 

If you cannot meet your burden of  proof (evidence) and burden of persuasion (logic) then the status quo continues.  Big blockers had the same problem in 2015/2016, and then even after a proposal was passed, coded and then tested, they changed their minds and said that they did not like it, but they did not present another proposal that was able to reach consensus... segwit reached consensus and those various block limit increase proposals did not get accepted then, and it seems even more doubtful that they will get accepted now because bitcoin seems to be working even better than it was working in 2015-2017 as far as I can see... -  unless you can provide evidence and logic to convince me otherwise, and actually who gives any shits what I think submit your BIP and go through the official channels so that your dumbass ideas that lack both evidence and logic can get discussed and agreed to.

In other words, why agree to a change that is not agreed to and you are not even going through the proper channels to try to get such a change considered... in other words, no one gives any fucks about your made up claims and  your whining about history in which you supposedly were not heard because that BIP system was there all along, and there was not evidence and logic to persuade.. and then the nonsense did get implemented on those other bullshit bcash chains, and wonder why no one is using those superior BIG block systems?  Surely not superior nor a better mouse trap because if it were true, after nearly 4 years for one of the bcash pieces of crap and nearly 3 years for the other bcash crap, you would think that those  BIG blocker versions of bitcoin would gain some traction besides just being scams?  Go figure why they have never amounted to shit, except means to deceive, confuse and mislead people (especially newbies) about bitcoin?

Segwit was presented as something that it wasn't. As people looked more and more into it, the problems became clear. It wasn't on-chain scaling. It increased the size per transaction, it moved certain parts of the transaction off-chain, it messed with the cost model of transactions, it required major changes to nodes and wallets and it didn't provide the increase in capacity promised. Even today, it only adds 30% to the paltry 1MB in actual use because lies and gaslighting. Yes, people weren't happy with this. Though I don't know why I'm having to go over this, you've got perfect memory of it all, right?


Just putting the record straight. But yes, doesn't make much difference now. "Big blockers" just wanted a bit of organic on-chain scaling while Bitcoin is in its growth phase. Though CSW is a tit who should be in jail.

No analogy bears too close a scrutiny.

Perhaps a better question would be "Assuming that we need a limit, what should that limit be". I would suggest that we should probably be at 16MB currently (which, note, does not mean that we will certainly have 16MB blocks) but I think we should be willing to consider expanding on that as we go.

Going from 1->2MB in 2015 would have allowed us to cautiously observe how such an expansion affected Bitcoin in a fairly controlled way. It would even have been possible to roll things back should it have affected things negatively (actually a soft fork). There's really nothing scary about 12MB/hr other than the n^2 issue with validating transactions with large number of inputs (and that had a work-around and has been solved since).

Marcus is wrong in saying that big blockers have locked Bitcoin in against forks. That was the outcome of Core refusing to take small steps or even entertain the discussion. It has also exposed a very strong centralization issue around Bitcoin's governance (though it's not clear that could have been avoided).