Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 6038.

sirazimuth

legendary

Activity: 3388

Merit: 3514

born once atheist

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 09:16:46 PM

Quote from: Torque on February 20, 2021, 09:06:06 PM

"Deficits don't matter."
"A college education is the only way to make it in this world."
"401Ks are the key to building retirement wealth."
"Rates going to zero, or even negative, are not a problem."
"Stocks can only go up."
"We can keep printing money forever, we own the printing press."
"Universal Basic Income will solve all of our problems."
"Bitcoin is a tool for criminals and drug dealers, a fraud, a scam, baby-brains squared...and it's going to zero."

Don't forget the "trickle-down effect". That's why the wealth divide is getting better.... Oh wait!

Speaking of lies in general...Don't forget the biggest, grandiose lie of all, sold to mankind's credulous stupidity for past 2000 years...
The almighty magic invisible sky fairy... pick your flavor ... many available.

GO BITCOIN

cAPSLOCK

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 5146

Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!

Quote from: lightfoot on February 20, 2021, 07:23:24 AM

Yup. There goes 57k.

I did pop by a bitcoin ATM and sold $1k at 55 yesterday. Mostly to see that the process worked and to feel some crispy fiat. Looks like I may have sold at the bottom again. :-)

Not sure i would call 55k the bottom. Wink

somac.

legendary

Activity: 2050

Merit: 1184

Never selling

Quote from: Torque on February 20, 2021, 09:06:06 PM

"Deficits don't matter."
"A college education is the only way to make it in this world."
"401Ks are the key to building retirement wealth."
"Rates going to zero, or even negative, are not a problem."
"Stocks can only go up."
"We can keep printing money forever, we own the printing press."
"Universal Basic Income will solve all of our problems."
"Bitcoin is a tool for criminals and drug dealers, a fraud, a scam, baby-brains squared...and it's going to zero."

Don't forget the "trickle-down effect". That's why the wealth divide is getting better.... Oh wait!

Torque

legendary

Activity: 3794

Merit: 5474

"Deficits don't matter."
"A college education is the only way to make it in this world."
"401Ks are the key to building retirement wealth."
"Rates going to zero, or even negative, are not a problem."
"Stocks can only go up."
"We can keep printing money forever, we own the printing press."
"Universal Basic Income will solve all of our problems."
"Bitcoin is a tool for criminals and drug dealers, a fraud, a scam, baby-brains squared...and it's going to zero."

somac.

legendary

Activity: 2050

Merit: 1184

Never selling

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 08:38:15 PM

Quote from: Biodom on February 20, 2021, 07:48:28 PM

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 07:27:55 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:52:56 PM

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 06:48:07 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:22:37 PM

3. Sell BTC covered calls

Hint: covered calls are a great way to sell you BTC, rather than the traditional sell at certain price point on normal exchange.

3. I like this. I imagine it is something like this: sell covered calls by posting btc collateral, and actually sell the btc at the strike price on expiry. Do you have any idea where that is possible?

You are correct. Deribit and FTX, are 2 places that I know off the top of my head. And you don't have to always post a full BTC as collateral, you can use margin, but then run risk of margin call.

There is of course the risk of a big price move in one month meaning you will miss out on a lot of capital appreciation.

Of course: a little like selling too early. But you do get advance money in return, after all. No free lunch and all that. I'm going to check the exchanges you suggested to get a feel for the premiums.

something like that.
You can sell 75K bitcoin calls, collect premium.
Then, if btc is lower than 75K at expiration, you keep BOTH your premium cash and your bitcoin, rinse and repeat.
If it is higher that 75K, then somebody basically buys your bitcoin at exactly 75K (plus $ premium that you collected).
The best thing, it is european style options (at least on ledger X, which is US-based), so your bitcoin would not be yanked from under you in the interim.
Not so good-you need to qualify with above $5 mil to sell options at intermediate odd prices (like 57, etc.).
Anybody who gets approved for the regular account could sell at 25, 50, 75K, now probably 100K as well.
I was considering selling some calls when btc was at $42K, very happy so far that I didn't.
EDIT: I checked and Dec 2021 75K calls have ~16K premium while 100K calls ~11K. Wow.
You can sell Dec 31 2021 200K calls and collect 3.8K in premium (on the bid)-exactly the lowest price in 2020.
The worst case scenario-you would sell at 200K plus 3.8K premium.
Lazer eyes.

Great post, Biodom. You're informative as usual. Thank you!

BTW @somac., I've checked FTX and they only seem to deal in futures - not options. Or maybe I have to sign up to see that?

FTX have the shitist UI ever (bit of an exaggeration). It took me a while to work out where their options were too, and they don't display an options chain either, you have to request a quote. Works well though, however, their premiums are a little lower. Here's a link.

https://ftx.com/options

And here's some more info on how the hell to get to that link and what the deal with finding the options prices are.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5316872

smartcomet

full member

Activity: 242

Merit: 101

Quote from: https://twitter.com/mskvsk/status/1363037316965675009

3535 $BTC has been bought yesterday by Canada Purpose Bitcoin ETF, the world's first #Bitcoin ETF.
Total: 6036.7 BTC

https://www.purposeinvest.com/funds/purpose-bitcoin-etf
AUM: 421.8M

d_eddie

legendary

Activity: 2520

Merit: 3038

Quote from: Biodom on February 20, 2021, 07:48:28 PM

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 07:27:55 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:52:56 PM

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 06:48:07 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:22:37 PM

3. Sell BTC covered calls

Hint: covered calls are a great way to sell you BTC, rather than the traditional sell at certain price point on normal exchange.

3. I like this. I imagine it is something like this: sell covered calls by posting btc collateral, and actually sell the btc at the strike price on expiry. Do you have any idea where that is possible?

You are correct. Deribit and FTX, are 2 places that I know off the top of my head. And you don't have to always post a full BTC as collateral, you can use margin, but then run risk of margin call.

There is of course the risk of a big price move in one month meaning you will miss out on a lot of capital appreciation.

Of course: a little like selling too early. But you do get advance money in return, after all. No free lunch and all that. I'm going to check the exchanges you suggested to get a feel for the premiums.

something like that.
You can sell 75K bitcoin calls, collect premium.
Then, if btc is lower than 75K at expiration, you keep BOTH your premium cash and your bitcoin, rinse and repeat.
If it is higher that 75K, then somebody basically buys your bitcoin at exactly 75K (plus $ premium that you collected).
The best thing, it is european style options (at least on ledger X, which is US-based), so your bitcoin would not be yanked from under you in the interim.
Not so good-you need to qualify with above $5 mil to sell options at intermediate odd prices (like 57, etc.).
Anybody who gets approved for the regular account could sell at 25, 50, 75K, now probably 100K as well.
I was considering selling some calls when btc was at $42K, very happy so far that I didn't.
EDIT: I checked and Dec 2021 75K calls have ~16K premium while 100K calls ~11K. Wow.
You can sell Dec 31 2021 200K calls and collect 3.8K in premium (on the bid)-exactly the lowest price in 2020.
The worst case scenario-you would sell at 200K plus 3.8K premium.
Lazer eyes.

Great post, Biodom. You're informative as usual. Thank you!

BTW @somac., I've checked FTX and they only seem to deal in futures - not options. Or maybe I have to sign up to see that?

somac.

legendary

Activity: 2050

Merit: 1184

Never selling

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 07:27:55 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:52:56 PM

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 06:48:07 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:22:37 PM

3. Sell BTC covered calls

Hint: covered calls are a great way to sell you BTC, rather than the traditional sell at certain price point on normal exchange.

3. I like this. I imagine it is something like this: sell covered calls by posting btc collateral, and actually sell the btc at the strike price on expiry. Do you have any idea where that is possible?

You are correct. Deribit and FTX, are 2 places that I know off the top of my head. And you don't have to always post a full BTC as collateral, you can use margin, but then run risk of margin call.

There is of course the risk of a big price move in one month meaning you will miss out on a lot of capital appreciation.

Of course: a little like selling too early. But you do get advance money in return, after all. No free lunch and all that. I'm going to check the exchanges you suggested to get a feel for the premiums.

Good luck with it.

Biodom

legendary

Activity: 3990

Merit: 4597

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 07:27:55 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:52:56 PM

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 06:48:07 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:22:37 PM

3. Sell BTC covered calls

Hint: covered calls are a great way to sell you BTC, rather than the traditional sell at certain price point on normal exchange.

3. I like this. I imagine it is something like this: sell covered calls by posting btc collateral, and actually sell the btc at the strike price on expiry. Do you have any idea where that is possible?

You are correct. Deribit and FTX, are 2 places that I know off the top of my head. And you don't have to always post a full BTC as collateral, you can use margin, but then run risk of margin call.

There is of course the risk of a big price move in one month meaning you will miss out on a lot of capital appreciation.

Of course: a little like selling too early. But you do get advance money in return, after all. No free lunch and all that. I'm going to check the exchanges you suggested to get a feel for the premiums.

something like that.
You can sell 75K bitcoin calls, collect premium.
Then, if btc is lower than 75K at expiration, you keep BOTH your premium cash and your bitcoin, rinse and repeat.
If it is higher that 75K, then somebody basically buys your bitcoin at exactly 75K (plus $ premium that you collected).
The best thing, it is european style options (at least on ledger X, which is US-based), so your bitcoin would not be yanked from under you in the interim.
Not so good-you need to qualify with above $5 mil to sell options at intermediate odd prices (like 57, etc.).
Anybody who gets approved for the regular account could sell at 25, 50, 75K, now probably 100K as well.
I was considering selling some calls when btc was at $42K, very happy so far that I didn't.
EDIT: I checked and Dec 2021 75K calls have ~16K premium while 100K calls ~11K. Wow.
You can sell Dec 31 2021 200K calls and collect 3.8K in premium (on the bid)-exactly the lowest price in 2020.
The worst case scenario-you would sell at 200K plus 3.8K premium.
Lazer eyes.

sirazimuth

legendary

Activity: 3388

Merit: 3514

born once atheist

Fun Fact..... If /when Bitcoin@ $57,042.0420420420.....A Tesla Model 3 (@$37,990) costs .666 Bitcoin.

Hey Elon...put that in your pipe and smoke it.....

Oh ffs!... it dropped below 56K...bitcoin is dead ...

d_eddie

legendary

Activity: 2520

Merit: 3038

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:52:56 PM

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 06:48:07 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:22:37 PM

3. Sell BTC covered calls

Hint: covered calls are a great way to sell you BTC, rather than the traditional sell at certain price point on normal exchange.

3. I like this. I imagine it is something like this: sell covered calls by posting btc collateral, and actually sell the btc at the strike price on expiry. Do you have any idea where that is possible?

You are correct. Deribit and FTX, are 2 places that I know off the top of my head. And you don't have to always post a full BTC as collateral, you can use margin, but then run risk of margin call.

There is of course the risk of a big price move in one month meaning you will miss out on a lot of capital appreciation.

Of course: a little like selling too early. But you do get advance money in return, after all. No free lunch and all that. I'm going to check the exchanges you suggested to get a feel for the premiums.

savetherainforest

hero member

Activity: 1876

Merit: 612

Plant 1xTree for each Satoshi earned!

Quote from: rdbase on February 20, 2021, 07:17:02 PM

Quote from: savetherainforest on February 20, 2021, 06:47:13 PM

Quote from: Gyrsur on February 20, 2021, 05:02:22 PM

who destroyed the poll with forbidden input?

Dunno man, you guys keep this argue of what price is what in how many shells, oysters, crayons, peanut butter slices... The fact is simple 1 million dogecoin is 1 million dogecoin.

The same goes for: 1 Bitcoin is worth 1 Bitcoin. Does it look like the banks will sell back the coins?? Answer: "NO!" ... they will just keep it and lend it to the n00bs as interest and they will keep on rolling trough their own digital currency that is endless and they say that they can do that because everything is backed-up by BTCiTcorn and they can't go bankrupt.

But you can't compare dogecoin to bitcoin.
That is just like arguing with elon that dogecoin is not bitcoin but just a coin created by someone who was bored one day and just did it for the sh*t and giggles in their basement. Cheesy

The first interview on a major news network with the creator of Dogecoin back at the beginning of 2018 said it all just a joke. Grin

https://youtu.be/Nuajz3DnEGQ

Has a bigger cult. Its all about the cult memember numbers. Cheesy

Its worthless if price is too high. It only matters if people believe in using it. Grin

rdbase

legendary

Activity: 2828

Merit: 1497

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: savetherainforest on February 20, 2021, 06:47:13 PM

Quote from: Gyrsur on February 20, 2021, 05:02:22 PM

who destroyed the poll with forbidden input?

Dunno man, you guys keep this argue of what price is what in how many shells, oysters, crayons, peanut butter slices... The fact is simple 1 million dogecoin is 1 million dogecoin.

The same goes for: 1 Bitcoin is worth 1 Bitcoin. Does it look like the banks will sell back the coins?? Answer: "NO!" ... they will just keep it and lend it to the n00bs as interest and they will keep on rolling trough their own digital currency that is endless and they say that they can do that because everything is backed-up by BTCiTcorn and they can't go bankrupt.

But you can't compare dogecoin to bitcoin.
That is just like arguing with elon that dogecoin is not bitcoin but just a coin created by someone who was bored one day and just did it for the sh*t and giggles in their basement. Cheesy

The first interview on a major news network with the creator of Dogecoin back at the beginning of 2018 said it all just a joke. Grin

https://youtu.be/Nuajz3DnEGQ

somac.

legendary

Activity: 2050

Merit: 1184

Never selling

Quote from: Elwar on February 20, 2021, 07:00:55 PM

I was given a few options on twitter for places where you can get loans of fiat for BTC collateral.

Closest I've seen is Hodl Hodl saying they would lend stablecoins and "Blockfi gives usd loans using btc as collateral".

Both things I will look into when going to buy property.

Yeah that is another way to do things. Taxes are lower on loans too, interest rates vs whatever capital/income taxes are in your location.

The loan will also be insignificant after another 4 years of BTC price rises.

somac.

legendary

Activity: 2050

Merit: 1184

Never selling

Quote from: Tweak25 on February 20, 2021, 07:04:28 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:52:56 PM

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 06:48:07 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:22:37 PM

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 06:05:05 PM

How about elaborating on that a little more, somac.? Wink

ELI5...

Ways to make an income from your current stash:

1. Lend your coins. celsius.network etc
2. Sell BTC futures
3. Sell BTC covered calls

Take your pick on which works best. And yes for some of those things you may have to deliver but, you are in it for the income, just buy the BTC back, even if it is at a higher a price, rinse and repeat.

Hint: covered calls are a great way to sell you BTC, rather than the traditional sell at certain price point on normal exchange.

1. Lending makes me very nervous. The counterparty risk won't let me sleep easily. My precioussss!! The good side is, it is unlike selling because you don't forfait your btc, but cash in interest - that's how it works, right?

2. Sell futures for cash seems a little more acceptable. It is tantamount to selling, though.

3. I like this. I imagine it is something like this: sell covered calls by posting btc collateral, and actually sell the btc at the strike price on expiry. Do you have any idea where that is possible?

You are correct. Deribit and FTX, are 2 places that I know off the top of my head. And you don't have to always post a full BTC as collateral, you can use margin, but then run risk of margin call.

There is of course the risk of a big price move in one month meaning you will miss out on a lot of capital appreciation.

Any guesses on how long it is until there's something close to an FDIC insured account that'll generate some interest?

All those options exceed my risk tolerance, but I am all about the never having to cash out / live off the interest lifestyle, if it can be swung.

No idea, but maybe in 4 years time BTC will be so highly valued that these options become doable for you.

Tweak25

jr. member

Activity: 30

Merit: 12

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:52:56 PM

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 06:48:07 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:22:37 PM

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 06:05:05 PM

How about elaborating on that a little more, somac.? Wink

ELI5...

Ways to make an income from your current stash:

1. Lend your coins. celsius.network etc
2. Sell BTC futures
3. Sell BTC covered calls

Take your pick on which works best. And yes for some of those things you may have to deliver but, you are in it for the income, just buy the BTC back, even if it is at a higher a price, rinse and repeat.

Hint: covered calls are a great way to sell you BTC, rather than the traditional sell at certain price point on normal exchange.

1. Lending makes me very nervous. The counterparty risk won't let me sleep easily. My precioussss!! The good side is, it is unlike selling because you don't forfait your btc, but cash in interest - that's how it works, right?

2. Sell futures for cash seems a little more acceptable. It is tantamount to selling, though.

3. I like this. I imagine it is something like this: sell covered calls by posting btc collateral, and actually sell the btc at the strike price on expiry. Do you have any idea where that is possible?

You are correct. Deribit and FTX, are 2 places that I know off the top of my head. And you don't have to always post a full BTC as collateral, you can use margin, but then run risk of margin call.

There is of course the risk of a big price move in one month meaning you will miss out on a lot of capital appreciation.

Any guesses on how long it is until there's something close to an FDIC insured account that'll generate some interest?

All those options exceed my risk tolerance, but I am all about the never having to cash out / live off the interest lifestyle, if it can be swung.

UnDerDoG81

legendary

Activity: 2186

Merit: 1213

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 06:22:37 PM

Quote from: UnDerDoG81 on February 20, 2021, 06:11:12 PM

Quote from: somac. on February 20, 2021, 05:58:39 PM

Quote from: UnDerDoG81 on February 20, 2021, 05:53:25 PM

These people who sell are always a step ahead. After 8 years of hodling I was ready to sell my first small amount BTC (not the one I bought Oct 2020) at $59444. And they knew many people will sell at 59k ish so they started the sell off at 57k Roll Eyes

Now I will rethink if I sell below $99k Cool

How about don't sell at all. At these price levels, there are ways to make an income of 10s of thousands USD a month on your exsisting stash without selling. This applies to stashes under 10 BTC too. Life is good at these levels.

That shock from the 2017/18 bull run dump still sits very deep. Even though the 2013/14 dump was bad as well, 2017/18 was a real shock. Taking profits in case of a surprising dump is not bad. I know we will pass 100k. But I believe we will see a bigger dump before we pass 60k. If 2013 cycle repeats the real run will be in the end of the year. And between March until end of summer it could be bearish. At the end, we are all just speculating. Some are good at it and some not.

Edit: I am also curious about that income you talking about.

I honestly understand, especially if you need money to buy a home or other need. My point really is that you shouldn't sell to buy a lambo or any stupid shit like that.

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 06:05:05 PM

How about elaborating on that a little more, somac.? Wink

ELI5...

Ways to make an income from your current stash:

1. Lend your coins. celsius.network etc
2. Sell BTC futures
3. Sell BTC covered calls

Take your pick on which works best. And yes for some of those things you may have to deliver but, you are in it for the income, just buy the BTC back, even if it is at a higher a price, rinse and repeat.

Hint: covered calls are a great way to sell you BTC, rather than the traditional sell at certain price point on normal exchange.

No I dont want to buy anything. Just want to reinvest since I am 100% invested in BTC. Only dont know in what to invest yet. My dream would be a passive income of $10k a month after taxes. I could live a great life with that amount in most countries I visit. No need for Lambos, Yachts and "stupid" things like that wich wont bring me any return besides 1 month of fun. Things get boring very fast. No matter how expensive they are. Yes, a cheaper 718 Porsche would be my dream. But I would get it 2nd hand and only if Bitcoin would hit 6 digits. And even then I would probably not buy one.

Currently I am running couple affiliate based websites and making about 3-4k a month. I can live with that. But its a highly risky business since Google pushes big websites on the front pages more and more and we small fishes fight to survive. So sooner or later I will run out of monthly income. Have to find some investments that deliver me a monthly passive income.

Edit: Tried to explain with this why I plan on selling small part of my BTC. So in case Bitcoin really fails, I would have something on the side. Yes, it will not fail. But what if something unexpected happens and we all watch it drop just like in 2017/18.

Elwar

legendary

Activity: 3598

Merit: 2386

Viva Ut Vivas

I was given a few options on twitter for places where you can get loans of fiat for BTC collateral.

Closest I've seen is Hodl Hodl saying they would lend stablecoins and "Blockfi gives usd loans using btc as collateral".

Both things I will look into when going to buy property.

somac.

legendary

Activity: 2050

Merit: 1184

Never selling

Quote from: d_eddie on February 20, 2021, 06:56:55 PM

Hero status fully deserved, somac.

Ha, I didn't notice. Thank you everyone and in particular The Dude.

d_eddie

legendary

Activity: 2520

Merit: 3038

Hero status fully deserved, somac.

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 6038. (Read 26712438 times)