whale tactics? - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

hd49728

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Quote from: Hydrogen on March 01, 2021, 10:34:06 AM

"Buying the dip" if the price rebounds.

Or "dead cat bounce" if the price doesn't rebound much at all.

The trouble with the strategy you're describing is once you've entered a sharply defined dump phase, prices usually don't rebound very far after confidence, faith and expectations are shattered by the sharp downtrend.

It normally takes time for market confidence to be restored after a strong dump. Then its much easier to generate a strong upward pump.

With the bull market, "dead cat bounce" can be striked out but you are right that in bear market, buying dips need to be apply very carefully. Most of dips cause dead cat bounces and if buyers don't take profit with short lasting bounces, they will end with loss and dead cats fall deeper and deeper.

In bear market, it will take months to see another dead cat bounces.

In this current bull market, dips are bought up strongly and healthy. They give opportunities to buy up the dips and enjoy bounces or hold to wait other higher records.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 11:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

"Buying the dip" if the price rebounds.

Or "dead cat bounce" if the price doesn't rebound much at all.

The trouble with the strategy you're describing is once you've entered a sharply defined dump phase, prices usually don't rebound very far after confidence, faith and expectations are shattered by the sharp downtrend.

It normally takes time for market confidence to be restored after a strong dump. Then its much easier to generate a strong upward pump.

serjent05

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 11:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Isn't this a buy low sell high tactic? I won't call it a pump and dump because there is no organization or group that triggers the increase in price in your given scenario. You stated that the increase in price appears naturally and no one is manipulating the trade either.

Obito

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 01, 2021, 04:55:14 AM

Your scenario works only in markets that are too small that one person with a relatively large amount of money can become the sole whale in that market and can perform such market manipulations. This is why the altcoin market is the breeding ground for pump and dump groups.
However this won't work in bitcoin market because of its bigger size. One whale can not perform such manipulations as you explained, even if multiple whales came together they still can't do it. All they can do is manipulate the market for smaller size in a smaller time frame. For example they could buy at $30k then when price reaches $40k manipulate the market and bring it back down to $38k but never to the previous bottom.
It's simply because of all the "other" whales and all the other traders in the market that keep buying bitcoin.

The reason that one whale can't perform this scheme on bitcoin market is because they don't have enough bitcoin to dump back to make a catastrophic wave but if in hypothetically one whale has what it takes to do that, I think that they will do it to make more money. Whales can even do a simple manipulation of dumping a considerable amount of bitcoin and shorting the prices. In conclusion, I have to disagree that it won't work on the bitcoin market, it's not it won't but can't because there isn't enough bitcoin for one whale to do it.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 11:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Why would selling it cause the price to fall, but buying it would not cause the price to rise?

The name for this tactic is "wishful thinking".

By the way, this is not "pump and dump". In a pump and dump scheme, the operator buys the asset when it is low and then spreads false and misleading information to cause others to buy. The operator dumps the shares on the buyers as the price rises. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump Buying and selling by itself is not "pump and dump".

pooya87

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Your scenario works only in markets that are too small that one person with a relatively large amount of money can become the sole whale in that market and can perform such market manipulations. This is why the altcoin market is the breeding ground for pump and dump groups.
However this won't work in bitcoin market because of its bigger size. One whale can not perform such manipulations as you explained, even if multiple whales came together they still can't do it. All they can do is manipulate the market for smaller size in a smaller time frame. For example they could buy at $30k then when price reaches $40k manipulate the market and bring it back down to $38k but never to the previous bottom.
It's simply because of all the "other" whales and all the other traders in the market that keep buying bitcoin.

davis196

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 11:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

This is not a tactic,this what all the "bears" actually do on the market.Selling BTC and buying at a lower price later.This is the opposite of what the "bulls" are going-Buying low and selling high.
If you are talking about lots short term day trades,with minimum profit margins,then we are talking about "scalping".
Those aren't "whale tactics". Usually,all the traders can be "bulls" or "bears" at some point,not only the whales.

dansus021

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Quote from: hd49728 on March 01, 2021, 02:02:40 AM

Quote from: mk4 on February 28, 2021, 11:10:36 PM

SNIP

not manipulating the market i mean i just saw the on binance app and

seeing this and there is whale picture on it

hd49728

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Quote from: mk4 on February 28, 2021, 11:10:36 PM

Quote from: dansus021 on February 28, 2021, 10:41:04 PM

Yes

its happen like everyday, check it https://whale-alert.io/ or just simply on binance using 2 BTC for market ordering considering as whale

Especially when talking about highly liquid trading pairs like BTC/USDT, good luck moving the price with only 2 BTC though. It would take A LOT more than 2 BTC to move to have a significant effect. With that low of a capital, your only chance with potentially manipulating prices is with low-cap altcoins.

Manipulate price of bitcoin with 2 BTC. Insane if it can be used nowadays. Huh

Any attempt to manipulate the market of bitcoin requires to have big capital, long time of preparation and magnificent set of skills. To direct and distort the technical indicators, it takes half of a month at least or 3 months to manipulate the trend.

Manipulators must know which indicators they can use to direct the chart and with less costs.

Lastly, they have to combine skills they have and seed their news to media. It is not a game for children. Grin

mk4

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Quote from: dansus021 on February 28, 2021, 10:41:04 PM

Yes

its happen like everyday, check it https://whale-alert.io/ or just simply on binance using 2 BTC for market ordering considering as whale

Especially when talking about highly liquid trading pairs like BTC/USDT, good luck moving the price with only 2 BTC though. It would take A LOT more than 2 BTC to move to have a significant effect. With that low of a capital, your only chance with potentially manipulating prices is with low-cap altcoins.

dansus021

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Quote from: ?? on ??

It is called Pump and dump, mate. It is as old as man, itself. Since time immemorial, even before cryptocurrencies came to the scene

Yes

its happen like everyday, check it https://whale-alert.io/ or just simply on binance using 2 BTC for market ordering considering as whale

Altcoinsintel

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Exchanges have algorithms that push the price way lower when someone tries to sell. Spoof orders disappear and hi frequency trading doesn't allow any such advantage to a whale. They can't make money in seconds as you may think. Whales may need months to execute a plan and even so it can always backfire. However with the help of exchanges usually everything goes smoothly as planned. Right?

thirdprize

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Quote from: qwk on February 28, 2021, 11:41:13 AM

Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 11:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Yes, it's called "Pump'n'Dump" and the maths don't add up to it being a viable business model.
The "manipulator" bears the cost of moving the market alone, but others will take the profits as well, so he will only receive a certain fraction of the profit minus fees.
Or, in simpler words: if you do that, you'll lose money.

Pump and dump is the opposite. That is inflating the market abs selling at the top. Completely different. You need the power to pump it which is the hard bit.

aoluain

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yes its a tactic but you would want to have a good understanding of the markets
and be able to read the various charts and signals otherwise you could end up
buying back at a higher price than you sold at

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: qwk on February 28, 2021, 11:41:13 AM

Yes, it's called "Pump'n'Dump" and the maths don't add up to it being a viable business model.
The "manipulator" bears the cost of moving the market alone, but others will take the profits as well, so he will only receive a certain fraction of the profit minus fees.
Or, in simpler words: if you do that, you'll lose money.

Depends on how much money you have, what you pump, for how long, when you pump and most certain - is Elon Musk your good friend. But yea this it not that easy as it seams to be. Lots of people earned fortune and than lose fortune playing god and sheeps game on the market.

qwk

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 11:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Yes, it's called "Pump'n'Dump" and the maths don't add up to it being a viable business model.
The "manipulator" bears the cost of moving the market alone, but others will take the profits as well, so he will only receive a certain fraction of the profit minus fees.
Or, in simpler words: if you do that, you'll lose money.

thirdprize

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If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Topic: whale tactics? - page 4. (Read 787 times)