Topic: What has really been behind china's economy - page 7. (Read 1055 times)

This is a problem inherent in all totalitarian or near-totalitarian countries. The fact is that in such countries information is used mostly for manipulation and propaganda. Take North Korea for example - there they flew on the sun and won all Olympics and world championships in all disciplines. Well, how else to keep the starving population in inhuman conditions in their hands - they must be restrained by such positive lies. And of course - their economic indicators are also "the highest in the world", and the whole world "lives much worse than North Korea"
Of course, China has not sunk to such a level, but it uses some of the "techniques" of information manipulation. For example, gold and currency reserves - were and remain completely closed information.... Once in the 20s they published it more or less openly, and that's it, the information is no longer available. But there is a lot of "beautiful data" about the economy and "the strong hand of Deng Xiaoning, leading China to world domination". By the way - the next term of Deng Xiaoping became possibly fatal for China.  Now the government has begun to restrict private business, total control is being introduced, freedoms that have not had time to fully develop are being curtailed, and all this is unlikely to benefit China, given its current critical problems in the economy.

I think I will rather stay in a country where my civil rights are protected and where I can still strike, if my employer abuse those rights. The Chinese government and their leaders ...run that country with an iron fist... and the citizens have very little freedom.

The economic data that are released are not verified and not transparent at all.... so the little bit of information that are released are most probably manipulated.

The sad part is that the Chinese people are happy with that.... and it works for them, but I do not want to live there for all the money in the world. 

The thing with China is that they do not disclose information regarding their country and government fully. I believe there are some articles stating that some, if not most, of the statistics produced pertaining to China and its economy were all made up (I would probably go back here and cite some sources myself). However, I think what's keeping China ahead of other countries is that China is serving as the manufacturing hub of the world. Most of the parts needed by big companies like Apple are sourced from China. For some who are not aware, despite some products stating that they are made in the US or other Western countries, you will see if you search that the majority of the parts needed for that specific product were made and gotten from China, it was just assembled in the US or the country it claimed to be made in. Moreover, education in China is really good and they are very strict in ensuring that children there are given more than what they need in terms of academics, I'm sure a lot of us have already heard how strict they are with academic achievements.

• Lying, there's a report already that they've lied about their statistics in their population so what's stopping them from lying about other things, they're secretive and they keep denying stuff that's already proven by multiple sources and censor their Internet, what kind of country who is honest about the stuff going on in their country have to hide that they censor their social media platforms heavily?
• Currying favors through bullying, China uses their large population and their production capabilities to make brands submit to their ideals, no celebrity or brand can talk shit about China without ever apologizing the next day.
• Corruption, no need to elaborate on this too much, Chinese buildings that they reported can be built in a day or weeks are held together by substandard products and expedited processes to skimp on the building funds so they can pocket more.
• Real estate in China is a good economic booster but at the same time their demise because people are buying properties in advance even though they don't exactly have any physical houses yet to be given to those buyers.
• Their currency yuan is exclusive iirc, meaning that it only circulates in the country and so it shows that their economy is actually growing.

These are not the facts, they're all the stuff that I've read and watched about economics throughout the years so I could be entirely wrong about all of these. I welcome any corrections .

The answer is simple, China is the manufacturing hub of the world right now so they are managing to keep it that way as long as possible We can't deny that fact most countries are still dependent on China for products which includes big tech giants like Apple so I can get the clear picture why they are ahead of other countries. And for the record surely they are going to surpass every nation as soon as possible.

And China is no different from other countries where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer so GDP growth doesn't reflect on the entire 1.4 billion people but it definitely the reflection of the top 1% or whatever it is.

GDP calculation and market cap calculation are same things and means very little. For example -

A country has 999 residents living in poverty and one billionaire. So as per the GDP calculation, their per capita income is 1 million.

Similarly, a cryptocurrency has 1000 units in the market and one unit got sold at 1 million. The market cap of that cryptocurrency becomes 1 billion.

Both are flawed!

Well, I am not an expert in Asian economics or geopolitics but if anyone asked me what is behind China´s success I would say it is about production, education and development of technologies.

They are major producers of almost every product I can think of, I am sure you all have stumbled with the fact many things have the "Made in China" phrase engraved on them, they remain to be highly competitive which only helps them economically. Perhaps that competition exist in detriment of the life style of workers, but that is a different topic.

On the other hand, they have fairly good education programs, if we ignore that those are probably politicized so the youth would obey and respect the CCP, they are seemly also quite competent when comes to development of science.

Also, Canada & USA are quite vulnerable to drug trafficking and the entrance of fentanyl and other synthetic drugs, in China there are harsh penalties against traffickers, usually death. Keeping drugs as far as the streets seems to be a priority for them.

First of all, echoing the previous comments, you can't trust data from CCP. Then, you can search the following keywords "Why GDP is not a good measure of economic growth" and you'll find a lot of articles explaining the problem with GDP as a metric. Anyway, it doesn't mean the China economy is so bad that it would lead to revolution or whatever. I'm just saying that they got hit hard by COVID and they aren't superpower like their propaganda as well. They have a big economy, but the fact that they also have the #1 population, will scream a poor GDP per capita. So most people are still poor by 1st world standards.

To get the answer - just read up on China, over the last 50 years. I will tell you very primitively and simplistically
In the beginning - a huge but backward, agrarian-oriented country. No offense, there's nothing wrong with that. But they managed to become almost the second economy of the world.
So what went wrong in China, like other third world countries?
China started offering its territory as a site for manufacturing. That was the first stage, and it started to work. Yes, the country had a communist dictatorship (no, not at the level of North Korea, of course), but they realized that they could make money and develop their economy. Many western manufacturers came to the country, built their factories, and got good labor, and cheap labor.
Then manufacturers realized that it is possible to produce not only primitive goods, but also high-tech products. Plus - the AMAZING position for reducing logistics costs in the Africa-Asia-Oceania region.
And so it began - everyone who could not help themselves came to China and brought technology! And the technological revolution in China began. New technologies, whole production facilities were brought to China for decades, local specialists were trained.....
And that's what jump-started all other sectors of the economy. China from resource-agrarian China became a technological giant with a well-developed industry.
But this is very simplistic

Rich countries do have debts in China. If China falls all the rest will fall as well just as the US will fall, the rest of the West may also crumble.

So many reports that are not really accurate as we are in economic warfare and sanctions are getting out of hand but the real things are happening right there. Diplomats visiting China to ask China to buy their treasury bonds so why are they asking China to buy their debts? France and Germany are about to flip to China.

Yes, there's no denying with those successful companies outside China that are doing well and contributes to China's GDP and growth. And for sure that they're also backed by the CCP and they have their share back to the mainland. But with all of the stuff that's going outside their country, if we're going to talk about things inside, there's a lot that could have been manipulated already when reported to the mass media.
Another incident are the following below, I wouldn't go into detail but there's something that's happening there that we'll never know.

• Why Chinese can't withdraw their money deposited in banks
• Chinese depositors left in dark as three local banks freeze deposits
• Small banks in China are running into trouble. Savers could lose everything

Although that news was from last year, it's not that far and I'm still trying to look for some updates.

I agreed with your point as if we see at the bigger picture and try to compare the GDP of China with all other countries besides the fact that China is facing deflationary situation and other countries are facing inflationary situation then if we would compare the numbers and stats then we will definitely find China as the biggest  seller or exporter. China is famous for making all kinds of thing at any cost. For example if we say we need a memory card at the cost of only $2 then they will make that for you and if we ask them to make a memory card for $20 then they will also make that for you. People are so hard working that home industries has grown so much in china that now products are more and consumer are less in the market. Which is causing yuan to lose value and now they are trying hard to maintain that. And I think it will be manages easily.

Thanks for the verification as I was also confused to read this because from pat few days I have reading that China is facing some severe financial problems like deflation, no buying of things. And people of there are trying hard to sell there products which are in abundant form. Yuan will slowly lose its value. And still OP was saying the GDP of China has improved in compared to Canada or some other country. He might having this discussion from some another angle but things are really not so go there roo because where inflation could put the financial status of a country at risk there deflation also has bad impact and it could effect the import and export plus selling will be lesser then before.

China us a country that is well disciplined and principled, they control their own system from within and also try to manage themselves without depending on any other country for sustainability, they encourage their local production and develope nee inventions, their productivity is very high and competitive, all these are part of what constitute to the growth of their economy and they make their law very strict against any importation of foreign items than what they locally produced from their own country, we can also see their population growth as part of what make their economy boom because they plan and control their population, as you can see the massive growth from their GDP.

GDP means nothing to people. its a useless stat that is made by using debt as an asset to project any countries "power" in the world rankings

here is the thing. if 2 countries never changed its PRODUCTION of goods and services.. the numbers can change upto 15% just by having the numbers calculated different by simply seeing a different forex rate

to add to this
when countries own bonds of other countries and are receiving 1-5% interest. again doing nothing adds 1-5%
then adding more 'money print' cash into circulation adds a few percent on too.. all without any goods or service production increase

so in short. stop caring about GDP it means nothing is not based on anything meaningful and can be manipulated on many factors that dont affect real life tangible change

Though it is true that human labor is the key for China, there is the other side where automation also runs at full capacity within China. Another important aspect is outsourcing. This is not done by China but the entire global network depends on China's power of acting as a contract-based entity meaning everyone manufactures from China and they assemble within China. Imagine the amount of money they get from other nations. They produce cheap and other nations need to pay the tax toll all the time. No wonder why they also turned into deflation this time.

Things are getting worse for ever nation out there. China is one mysterious country with the truth hidden all the time.

I can agree with you about the fact that, china would want to control whatever that is going out on the media space, but you can as well point out to the fact that, they have lots of companies owned by Chinese in other countries that are doing very well, in my country for instance, there are lot's of Chinese companies doing very well, for instance is EECC, a frontline construction giant in my country, that is just one out of a lot, some are also into oil and gas. So to large extent, this investments are generating a lot to the growth of their GDP,

If you take time to study the history of many of these powerful countries like China, you would understand that their success and growth dates back to previous monarchs or leaders. They have many of their citizens migrate to Europe and the Western countries to study and develop their knowledge. They come back home and use the knowledge to better their economy.
Their growth is a result of long term plan followed consistently, intentionally and with great discipline.
Anyone wondering how they just happen to have a good economy should care much to know about its history, wars, natural disasters and outbreaks it has had to fight through as a country to be where it is today.
Still it remains one of the best commercial hubs in the world.

I want you to think outside the box. Maybe they're able to maintain their status afloat even if it's known that the majority is suffering from the global crisis. But it's possible that even with the side motion of their economy, they're able to control what's going to come in and out with the media since their government is controlled by the CCP. So, data and numbers can be modified and they're only allowed to project what's good inside and outside the country.

For example: THE FALL OF EVERGRANDE: A CASE STUDY OF CHINA’S FINANCIAL TURMOIL IN 2022 AND THE IMPLICATION TO CHINA-BOUND INTERNATIONAL CAPITAL IN 2023 AND BEYOND

That incident surely have a big impact to their economy and probably they're tailoring it as if nothing is negatively happening to them and they're in control. But it can't also be denied that during the covid-19 pandemic height, they're able to spread their investments since majority of the stocks from that time were low. Well, go back to the first sentence of what I've said.

China is an industrial country and they have found ways to make use of their human resources to their favor, so far this move has worked out very well for them. Also they have strict laws unlike most Western country and this laws allows the government detect majorly how This are ran in the country with the willing or unwilling cooperation of their citizens.

Also china is a country that has invested in lots of countries especially in the developing countries mostly through loans or building/purchase of industries in those countries this gives china revenues and long term profits

China doesn't disclose clear data to the outer world. The manipulated data or data gathered by the agencies weren't that perfect. The calculation made based on the data revealed shows China's economy is strong. The small scale industries in the country were the key for the development of the country's economy. For China population served as a big issue and now different policies to control population have given effective result.

Soon after the COVID, the country hit hard in all sectors. But no clear information gets revealed to the outer world. China's economy needs to be kept aside, because the way they create export and import market is different from other countries.