What is your opinions about simulated reality games?

KTChampions

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Quote from: iv4n on April 13, 2022, 11:19:40 AM

Quote from: RyanSmith23421 on April 13, 2022, 09:36:57 AM

I feel like its not worth it... its just an easy way to continue with a sample game

Maybe you and I like the real game more than a simulation, but simulation games have their audience. They have more than that, TV shows, commentators, a lot of people are behind all that! So I wouldn’t say it’s not worth it, maybe it’s not big yet, but I think it has the potential to grow in the future! Simply people like simulations, there are many simulation games around, and I guess with technology these games will be better and more wanted!

It would be interesting to test this audience for addiction and compare the percentage of addicts with the percentage of addicts among regular betters. I have a lot of confidence that among the fans of simulated games, the percentage of addicts will be much higher - after all, they go to simulated games simply because they cannot wait for the next regular game to start.

madnessteat

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Quote from: Boristhecat on April 13, 2022, 08:25:38 AM

Quote from: madnessteat on April 08, 2022, 02:50:40 PM

Quote from: Boristhecat on April 08, 2022, 12:26:17 PM

^

So your words have a rational basis, but most bettors will choose to bet on real games in which the outcome of the match can be more accurately predicted because we can observe in real time the athletic form of players, injuries, reshuffles, etc. I could be wrong but it seems to me that in simulated reality games, probability has a greater role and therefore it is an increased risk.

Of course, most real bettors choose to bet on real sporting events, as they place bets based not on the numbers that bookmakers draw, but on the information they collect about teams and analyze. But some bettors who are actually gamblers will bet on anything, even simulation of real games. But the question under discussion is different - how similar is the simulation to reality? I cannot give any specific answer to this question, since here we need to analyze a large amount of data from simulations that have already happened.

It is difficult to answer this question. I never bet on simulated reality games because my gut tells me that I can be easily cheated and I won't even get a negative experience with it. That's why I prefer to bet on the real game and even in case of losing I will be sure that nobody cheated me and I analyzed the outcome of the match incorrectly myself.

dothebeats

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Quote from: JohnBitCo on April 13, 2022, 11:48:53 AM

Quote from: iv4n on April 13, 2022, 11:19:40 AM

Quote from: RyanSmith23421 on April 13, 2022, 09:36:57 AM

I feel like its not worth it... its just an easy way to continue with a sample game

Maybe you and I like the real game more than a simulation, but simulation games have their audience. They have more than that, TV shows, commentators, a lot of people are behind all that! So I wouldn’t say it’s not worth it, maybe it’s not big yet, but I think it has the potential to grow in the future! Simply people like simulations, there are many simulation games around, and I guess with technology these games will be better and more wanted!

Although Simulation games are not so popular but still they are liked by many people.

Since we are discussing this from the gambling point of view, do we have any bets on simulated games? I haven't heard of any.

What do you mean by any bets on simulated games? There are some platforms that offer these events on their lineups, though the events in which you can bet on is very limited. I myself have never seen such a line on Pinnacle or Nitrogensports that I can bet on. Most of the time, that section of the platform is empty. On rare occasions that it ever gets bet on, I only see the results on betslips that people are sharing and that's it.

JohnBitCo

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Quote from: iv4n on April 13, 2022, 11:19:40 AM

Quote from: RyanSmith23421 on April 13, 2022, 09:36:57 AM

I feel like its not worth it... its just an easy way to continue with a sample game

Maybe you and I like the real game more than a simulation, but simulation games have their audience. They have more than that, TV shows, commentators, a lot of people are behind all that! So I wouldn’t say it’s not worth it, maybe it’s not big yet, but I think it has the potential to grow in the future! Simply people like simulations, there are many simulation games around, and I guess with technology these games will be better and more wanted!

Although Simulation games are not so popular but still they are liked by many people.

Since we are discussing this from the gambling point of view, do we have any bets on simulated games? I haven't heard of any.

iv4n

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Quote from: RyanSmith23421 on April 13, 2022, 09:36:57 AM

I feel like its not worth it... its just an easy way to continue with a sample game

Maybe you and I like the real game more than a simulation, but simulation games have their audience. They have more than that, TV shows, commentators, a lot of people are behind all that! So I wouldn’t say it’s not worth it, maybe it’s not big yet, but I think it has the potential to grow in the future! Simply people like simulations, there are many simulation games around, and I guess with technology these games will be better and more wanted!

RyanSmith23421

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I feel like its not worth it... its just an easy way to continue with a sample game

Boristhecat

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Quote from: madnessteat on April 08, 2022, 02:50:40 PM

Quote from: Boristhecat on April 08, 2022, 12:26:17 PM

^

So your words have a rational basis, but most bettors will choose to bet on real games in which the outcome of the match can be more accurately predicted because we can observe in real time the athletic form of players, injuries, reshuffles, etc. I could be wrong but it seems to me that in simulated reality games, probability has a greater role and therefore it is an increased risk.

Of course, most real bettors choose to bet on real sporting events, as they place bets based not on the numbers that bookmakers draw, but on the information they collect about teams and analyze. But some bettors who are actually gamblers will bet on anything, even simulation of real games. But the question under discussion is different - how similar is the simulation to reality? I cannot give any specific answer to this question, since here we need to analyze a large amount of data from simulations that have already happened.

delfastTions

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Quote from: uneng on April 09, 2022, 03:50:36 PM

It totally contrasts with the achievements of crypto gambling industry for gamblers, which is heavily backed by the provably fair feature, raising transparency on this environment to a new level never seen before at land based casinos.

I've recently begun to question the honesty of algorithms that we're told are based on the principles of provable fairness. I now think that some ingenious developer has already created such algorithms that are, as it were, provably fair, and as soon as their execution begins, they seem to become not too fair. Provable fair is increasingly becoming a trademark and a marketing ploy to generate additional income, in my opinion.

fullhdpixel

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on April 07, 2022, 11:04:13 AM

Quote from: perla on April 07, 2022, 08:10:49 AM

It looks like majority of us do not trust this kind of game and it is very nice since it only shows that we improved and not easy to believe just like before. We are now looking at things carefully and looking to verify it and if we can't verify it then we stay away on it for good.

Maybe we don't believe in this kind of game because we can't imagine what it's like to play using aids such as glasses or something else. But if the technology can continue to develop and more companies try to introduce it to the public, I think people will be curious and want to try it. It may take some time for people to accept this kind of game and if it really appeals to them, this trend will replace the old one.

I don't like what perla said there, that sounds like a disrespect to this game. The reason why most don't like it is because it is not as popular as the classic games that we saw on gambling sites but if more people have been exposed to it maybe they will also play this game and they can potentially like it but we can't say that it will then replace the other games, no that's not gonna happen because there are features that can only be found on other games but not on this one.

This game is real so why will someone won't believe on it? Or they don't believe that they can win on this type of game? well how will they know if they will just comment and not trying it?

uneng

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Quote from: Boristhecat on April 08, 2022, 12:26:17 PM

If we do not have an exact mathematical model of the game, then of course we cannot fully verify the correctness of the results obtained.

Yes. It's so hard to find informations about the developers behind the algorithms and the algorithms themselves. This betting category is really shady. They say hundreds or thousands of previous games results of each team are taken into consideration when programming the algorithm, what I suppose it's being constantly done in real time, increasing even more the possibility of manipulation by the operators to favour one side or another.

It totally contrasts with the achievements of crypto gambling industry for gamblers, which is heavily backed by the provably fair feature, raising transparency on this environment to a new level never seen before at land based casinos.

delfastTions

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Quote from: perla on April 07, 2022, 08:10:49 AM

It looks like majority of us do not trust this kind of game and it is very nice since it only shows that we improved and not easy to believe just like before. We are now looking at things carefully and looking to verify it and if we can't verify it then we stay away on it for good.

But it's true. In recent years, we, Internet users, have become so accustomed to the flow of lies and disinfection that we have become indifferent to this. I don't believe any news 100%. Especially if the news is about politics or about some achievements of science and technology. For example, how we are all deceived about pandemics - how can we understand whether the virus was artificially created by the Americans or is it of natural origin Huh

As a result, everyone got confused, they lied and simply want to earn more and lie, lie, lie, endlessly. Sad

madnessteat

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Quote from: Boristhecat on April 08, 2022, 12:26:17 PM

^

So your words have a rational basis, but most bettors will choose to bet on real games in which the outcome of the match can be more accurately predicted because we can observe in real time the athletic form of players, injuries, reshuffles, etc. I could be wrong but it seems to me that in simulated reality games, probability has a greater role and therefore it is an increased risk.

Boristhecat

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Quote from: bitbollo on April 06, 2022, 01:11:49 PM

Quote from: Boristhecat on April 06, 2022, 12:31:01 PM

Proper simulations should give results that, on large amounts of data, will be indistinguishable from the results of non-simulated games. That is, regardless of whether you really toss 10 dice or simulate this process, with a certain number of tosses, you should get 10 sixes.
Still, when I think about the mathematical background of the process, I understand that I will never bet on simulated games, because it may be almost the same with a "live" game, but in a live game, the better and the bookmaker compete in predicting an unknown event and in simulated games, the bookmaker is initially on the side that controls all possible outcomes.

ready to be denied:
is this really the case in these kinds of games?
as far as I know, for this type of bets / matches there is no process that allows you to independently verify the final result.
or something that help to understand how the final result has been determined.
likewise in Dice you can verify your roll.... here you can verify what happens?
if between a "super favorite" and a "very poor" team the result is always a bit obvious ... if this not happens how can we verify these results? More over, the result is determined by what kind of calculations?

If we do not have an exact mathematical model of the game, then of course we cannot fully verify the correctness of the results obtained. But hypothetically it can be done. For example, it is unlikely that the favorite plays 1000 times better than the outsider - this is contrary to the sports league system. Therefore, if, for example, in 2000 games, an outsider has never defeated a favorite, then this should raise huge questions.

jostorres

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Quote from: hahay on April 06, 2022, 11:55:12 AM

I don't know anything about this game but I think, if the type of game grows over time then it's likely a trusted service. At least as long as the user or player doesn't have a problem then we can just rely on it, different if there are many players who complain then that will be a consideration too. About something that is set or not I think it depends on how high the win rate of the other players is, if they still get a win in a few rounds then at least we can say something fair or not.

Trust is not mainly about the game but its also on the platform that we are playing. Some says that this game is not provably fair not unlike to most crypto games like dice that we can verify their fairness. Playing this game on a trusted platform will still not make sense then? because you can still lose but that's how gambling work right?

It's about losing and winning. If you think you are skillful enough and you play mainly for the profit then this game is clearly not for you. You said its about the win rate? win rate helps determine if which is best to bet but at the end, a low win rate player will still have a chance to win the match but it doesn't mean that it was not fair.

wxa7115

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Quote from: delfastTions on April 07, 2022, 07:50:54 AM

Quote from: Boristhecat on April 06, 2022, 12:31:01 PM

Still, when I think about the mathematical background of the process, I understand that I will never bet on simulated games, because it may be almost the same with a "live" game, but in a live game, the better and the bookmaker compete in predicting an unknown event and in simulated games, the bookmaker is initially on the side that controls all possible outcomes.

Unfortunately, we all live in a world filled with lies and fakes. Sad

So the development of the whole civilization in the 21st century has gone on.
See, for example, how we are presented with news about the situation in Syria or Ukraine. In this news, there are only fakes and staged scenes.
So it is obvious that those programmers who write programs for online casinos probably insert some kind of scripts into the codes, allowing in some cases to slightly "correct" the results of the draws. Moreover, they are masked quite strongly so that it is difficult to determine and prove it.
I don't even doubt it.

And even if they do not the possibility that this could be possible is all what is necessary for us to reject those games, after all is not that the reason we are invested in bitcoin in the first place? Governments have the power to print as much fiat as they want and they always promise they are never going to abuse such power.

But what is what we see through history every single time? Governments abusing their power to print fiat, something which we saw during the pandemic and it is the main source of inflation around the world, even if governments want to blame this on supply issues, the price of oil or the war at Ukraine, so it is better to stay away from those games just on principle alone.

ethereumhunter

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Quote from: perla on April 07, 2022, 08:10:49 AM

It looks like majority of us do not trust this kind of game and it is very nice since it only shows that we improved and not easy to believe just like before. We are now looking at things carefully and looking to verify it and if we can't verify it then we stay away on it for good.

Maybe we don't believe in this kind of game because we can't imagine what it's like to play using aids such as glasses or something else. But if the technology can continue to develop and more companies try to introduce it to the public, I think people will be curious and want to try it. It may take some time for people to accept this kind of game and if it really appeals to them, this trend will replace the old one.

madnessteat

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Quote from: goldkingcoiner on April 07, 2022, 10:13:43 AM

^

As history shows, attackers find bugs even in the code, which has been checked by more than one well-known auditing organization. Nothing better than open source and vulnerability reward programs has been invented yet. That's why I advocate open source code which can be tested by anyone who understands it.

goldkingcoiner

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Quote from: madnessteat on April 06, 2022, 11:27:25 AM

Quote from: AicecreaME on April 06, 2022, 07:18:56 AM

^

For gamblers to trust this kind of algorithms, their code must be open to all. Until it is not, there will be no trust.

If rigged matches can be found in big sports, it is impossible to completely rule out possible cheating by simulated reality game providers. But the most interesting thing is that we are unlikely to ever know the answer to the main question - how often they are abused.

I can understand your concerns with what you are saying but would an open source code really be such a good idea? In fact, that might be bad opsec in of itself. I am no expert on code opsec but I think the better option would be to keep your code secret but always audited, if possible, by verified auditors for code.

At some point in the future, once they have gone through many audits and then they decide to show everyone the code, some single hacker could find a nice loophole in the code and that will be the end of whichever platform used that code.

perla

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It looks like majority of us do not trust this kind of game and it is very nice since it only shows that we improved and not easy to believe just like before. We are now looking at things carefully and looking to verify it and if we can't verify it then we stay away on it for good.

delfastTions

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Quote from: Boristhecat on April 06, 2022, 12:31:01 PM

Still, when I think about the mathematical background of the process, I understand that I will never bet on simulated games, because it may be almost the same with a "live" game, but in a live game, the better and the bookmaker compete in predicting an unknown event and in simulated games, the bookmaker is initially on the side that controls all possible outcomes.

Unfortunately, we all live in a world filled with lies and fakes. Sad

So the development of the whole civilization in the 21st century has gone on.
See, for example, how we are presented with news about the situation in Syria or Ukraine. In this news, there are only fakes and staged scenes.
So it is obvious that those programmers who write programs for online casinos probably insert some kind of scripts into the codes, allowing in some cases to slightly "correct" the results of the draws. Moreover, they are masked quite strongly so that it is difficult to determine and prove it.
I don't even doubt it.

Topic: What is your opinions about simulated reality games? (Read 1002 times)