What will happen with Bitcoin if it never scales? - page 18.

classicsucks

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Quote from: wck on April 03, 2017, 09:31:51 PM

Quote from: quake313 on March 29, 2017, 02:20:26 PM

If you read Core's road map they want it to be able to scale both on chain and off when necessary. They just want it done slowly and safely as possible.

Huh?

This is what you are calling a roadmap? https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011865.html

Blockstream/Core made it clear that they didn't want Bitcoin to scale, thereby forcing people onto the Lightning Network. Since the Lightning Network doesn't really exist yet (and there are many unanswered questions about its security and viability), the markets responded by moving volume over to altcoins. Bitcoin dominance has been cliff-diving in 2017, today it's 56%: http://coinmarketcap.com/charts/#btc-percentage

Bitcoin has a lot of inertia due to name recognition, services, and hype, but eventually it will slow down as it becomes less useful. With the mempool reaching new all-time highs as we speak, we should be seeing a lot of unhappy bitcoin users in the next week. Some of them will flee to alts, and others will leave the space entirely.

hardtime

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This is going to be a tough issue if it never does scale as I would think that another currency would take the rains, maybe ETH? You never really know on something like this, but the one thing that I do know is that people on the BTC network are sick and tired of paying such high fees and are probably close to just simply cashing out and just using another method of payment all the time rather then keeping their bitcoin like they're doing now and paying like $1.30 for one transaction.

I do hope it scales though, as I see that as the only chance for Bitcoin to be able to be seen as a currency that is going to be able to hold some sort of foothold when it comes to the masses accepting and using it as a whole. If it doesn't people are just going to find something that will suit their needed, like anything else in the world this is how it works.

dothebeats

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Quote from: salemon on May 04, 2017, 11:21:01 PM

Quote from: mining1 on May 04, 2017, 07:01:31 PM

Quote from: Abiky on March 29, 2017, 01:31:52 PM

What do you think that might happen with Bitcoin if no scalable solution becomes accepted?

I said this more than once. If bitcoin doesn't manage to scale this year, and ethereum will keep developing and getting adoption from institutions and corporations as it curently does, there's 50-75% it will replace btc by the year's end. Mark my words.

And what awaits then the mass owner of Bitcoin coins, if they all expect a Rainbow future for their capital. This does not affect the price of Bitcoin in the coming years?

It would of course, at a large scale. If bitcoin would never scale, some other coins might take the spot who already has the lead in terms of adoption and development e.g. LTC or ETH. However, what coin would replace bitcoin that I have no clue about since I'm still wary about ETH rise and LTC seemed to be too far off the charts.

salemon

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Quote from: mining1 on May 04, 2017, 07:01:31 PM

Quote from: Abiky on March 29, 2017, 01:31:52 PM

What do you think that might happen with Bitcoin if no scalable solution becomes accepted?

I said this more than once. If bitcoin doesn't manage to scale this year, and ethereum will keep developing and getting adoption from institutions and corporations as it curently does, there's 50-75% it will replace btc by the year's end. Mark my words.

And what awaits then the mass owner of Bitcoin coins, if they all expect a Rainbow future for their capital. This does not affect the price of Bitcoin in the coming years?

mining1

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Quote from: Abiky on March 29, 2017, 01:31:52 PM

What do you think that might happen with Bitcoin if no scalable solution becomes accepted?

I said this more than once. If bitcoin doesn't manage to scale this year, and ethereum will keep developing and getting adoption from institutions and corporations as it curently does, there's 50-75% it will replace btc by the year's end. Mark my words.

deisik

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Quote from: Abiky on May 03, 2017, 12:54:43 PM

Quote from: deisik on April 29, 2017, 01:57:21 AM

Bitcoin will likely stagnate

And eventually a new Bitcoin will be born which will have these issues fixed (as well as a lot of others like PoW), with the old dying off eventually. Personally, I'm more curious why no one hasn't yet implemented instant payments in an altcoin. I heard that Dash was doing something like that but folks here quickly dispersed my suspicions. Litecoin was going for that too, but Wu and company seem to have halted this process as well

Yes. That's what I've thought it would happen in the future, if Bitcoin doesn't overcome its issues. Another altcoin will take over for sure, addressing key issues that are essential towards mainstream adoption. When it becomes scalable and fungible enough, while taking in consideration its decentralization, it will become a huge success surpassing BTC's market cap, if it also adapts a limited supply.

There are many cryptocurrency which are having issues towards getting the approval of the miners for SegWit, but if a new coin comes released with SegWit into its code, then it would become much easier for the scalable solution to become accepted there, as it would have a small hashrate at start. Thus, the bigger the hashrate a cruptocurrency's network has, the difficult it would be to gain the necessary consensus for SegWit to become active. I think that is why Bitcoin and other alts haven’t gotten any luck so far.

Still, Litecoin is closer towards SegWit activation, and it will be very beneficial to the cryptocurrency if it becomes a reality. Just my opinion.

I don't think that this will help Litecoin much

It has been around for ages, and people already got used to it being a second grade cryptocurrency. When (and if) SegWit gets activated in Litecoin, people would rather think of it as a testing ground for Bitcoin, not as its own endeavor toward its own Bitcoin-free future. Apart from that, Segwit itself can only be considered as an interim solution. A Bitcoin killer coin should look more toward instant, ping-time payments and with low costs at that

Abiky

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Quote from: deisik on April 29, 2017, 01:57:21 AM

Bitcoin will likely stagnate

And eventually a new Bitcoin will be born which will have these issues fixed (as well as a lot of others like PoW), with the old dying off eventually. Personally, I'm more curious why no one hasn't yet implemented instant payments in an altcoin. I heard that Dash was doing something like that but folks here quickly dispersed my suspicions. Litecoin was going for that too, but Wu and company seem to have halted this process as well

Yes. That's what I've thought it would happen in the future, if Bitcoin doesn't overcome its issues. Another altcoin will take over for sure, addressing key issues that are essential towards mainstream adoption. When it becomes scalable and fungible enough, while taking in consideration its decentralization, it will become a huge success surpassing BTC's market cap, if it also adapts a limited supply.

There are many cryptocurrency which are having issues towards getting the approval of the miners for SegWit, but if a new coin comes released with SegWit into its code, then it would become much easier for the scalable solution to become accepted there, as it would have a small hashrate at start. Thus, the bigger the hashrate a cruptocurrency's network has, the difficult it would be to gain the necessary consensus for SegWit to become active. I think that is why Bitcoin and other alts haven’t gotten any luck so far.

Still, Litecoin is closer towards SegWit activation, and it will be very beneficial to the cryptocurrency if it becomes a reality. Just my opinion.

countryfree

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Anyone having Swiss francs in his wallet?

I do. It's a strong and very stable fiat currency. Switzerland is a small country, and it's currency is well regarded by all investors, holding its value among the US dollar or the Euro from much larger economies.

I hope BTC will become like the Swiss franc.

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Quote from: Abiky on March 29, 2017, 01:31:52 PM

What do you think that might happen with Bitcoin if no scalable solution becomes accepted?

And mass adoption just in a dream and more bitcoin traders will be looking for the fast transaction through off-chain.

Quote from: Abiky on March 29, 2017, 01:31:52 PM

Will it remain as a store of value, while other altcoins take the lead for everyday transactions? Or will another cryptocurrency take its place as the top in marketcap?

I think so, More people are interested using off-chain transaction to be his bitcoin scalability solution. With 15 minutes and you can deliver off-chain transaction just in some minutes rather than using bitcoin transaction, 15 minutes for a single confirmation.

Quote from: Abiky on March 29, 2017, 01:31:52 PM

I would like to know your thoughts about this, as the ongoing scaling debate will further limit Bitcoin from reaching new heights. As for me, I believe that the Bitcoin community would come up at a resolution somehow to put an end to this issue, and make the pioneer cryptocurrency great again. What do you think?

Bitcoin must learn a lot from litecoin and how are they doing it.
But I will strongly disagree about UASF.

Quote from: HEWRA on April 30, 2017, 04:59:38 PM

I dont think what can we do if segwit won't happen and hardfork also.
The blockchain will be way too slow, and fees are too high to use btc for everyday use.

Just the voters will give impact to the consensus. We are the spectators.

HEWRA

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I dont think what can we do if segwit won't happen and hardfork also.
The blockchain will be way too slow, and fees are too high to use btc for everyday use.

Cryptonite310

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Quote from: Abiky on March 29, 2017, 01:31:52 PM

What do you think that might happen with Bitcoin if no scalable solution becomes accepted?

Will it remain as a store of value, while other altcoins take the lead for everyday transactions? Or will another cryptocurrency take its place as the top in marketcap?

I would like to know your thoughts about this, as the ongoing scaling debate will further limit Bitcoin from reaching new heights. As for me, I believe that the Bitcoin community would come up at a resolution somehow to put an end to this issue, and make the pioneer cryptocurrency great again. What do you think?

BitCoin surely has the largest community and I think they can find a solution to this problem. But if it never get's resolved, you basically answered your own question. It will remain as a store of value, and other alt coins out there will take the lead because they can work better as a currency.

BitCoin can't be both a long term store of value, and an every day currency. I think the BitCoin community needs to choose a route, and stick to it.

AngryDwarf

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BTC market dominance now down to 59.5%. I guess that's what happens.

The_Dark_Knight

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Quote from: Abiky on March 29, 2017, 01:31:52 PM

What do you think that might happen with Bitcoin if no scalable solution becomes accepted?

Will it remain as a store of value, while other altcoins take the lead for everyday transactions? Or will another cryptocurrency take its place as the top in marketcap?

I would like to know your thoughts about this, as the ongoing scaling debate will further limit Bitcoin from reaching new heights. As for me, I believe that the Bitcoin community would come up at a resolution somehow to put an end to this issue, and make the pioneer cryptocurrency great again. What do you think?

If bitcoin never scales and another coin does then I think that coin will eventually become the dominant coin, that is why it is important to keep pushing bitcoin forward with new innovations, in the world of technology if you stay stagnant then other projects will eventually overtake you.

Kemarit

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Alts coins are already attracting new users who have been disappointed with the current scaling war and I think this will continue if sooner than we think. Currently, bitcoin is no longer a choice of doing micro-payments because of its high transaction fees. Imagine if I want to send money back home as remittance, I would rather used other payment methods rather than used bitcoin because of high fees. We need this issues resolved so that bitcoin can scales up and be adopted globally, otherwise the general public will look for other alternatives.

bartolo

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If bitcoin never scaled we would have a problem, bitcoin would lose some of its interest and this would affect its adoption level as there are other coins that don´t have its problems by now and that could be presented as an alternative. However, despite the scalability debate that is still in place, I think that there will eventually be a solution because in the end the worst solution would be that there were no solution.

tobacco123

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I am certain that bitcoin will scale soon... but if it doesn't, other alt-coin will take over. Eth is a potential candidate but I think it also has problem- too easy to scale (centralization).

Obito

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I think if bitcoin never scales the bitcoin will not be used by many people. Because that will not be useful for everyone and it is not applicable to be converted into their money currency. If bitcoin will not be scaled many people will not pursue to use the bitcoin.

maydna

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Quote from: Abiky on March 29, 2017, 01:31:52 PM

What do you think that might happen with Bitcoin if no scalable solution becomes accepted?

Will it remain as a store of value, while other altcoins take the lead for everyday transactions? Or will another cryptocurrency take its place as the top in marketcap?

I would like to know your thoughts about this, as the ongoing scaling debate will further limit Bitcoin from reaching new heights. As for me, I believe that the Bitcoin community would come up at a resolution somehow to put an end to this issue, and make the pioneer cryptocurrency great again. What do you think?

i think altcoin can not be in the top of marketcap as bitcoin is the leader of cryptocurrency and bitcoin is like a path for the others. i think altcoin is like a helper for bitcoin and support for bitcoin in cryptocurrency. without altcoin, bitcoin is nothing and all of crypto currency is related with each others. in trading for example, if bitcoin is down, altcoin will be up and if we trade btc-altcoin, we have makes profit in bitcoin and we can also increase our bitcoin amount. but if bitcoin is down, altcoin will be down, so we can buy altcoin again and sell it in high price.

JorisK

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IMHO I don't see a problem here as the coin doesn't necessarily need to scale, it can function without block size/application improvements. But without scaling, i think it would change Bitcoins use dramatically. Small transactions will be taken over by altcoins, and BTC will more likely take the status of digital gold.

What i'm more worried about is Bitcoins ongoing centralization. Its ecosystem should be as decentral as possible, yet it is more and more being taken over by a few persons controlling monstrous minepools, and with that a ton of consensus power. The reason Bitcoin is still alive is because we trust in a few important things: it's reliable development team, its security and the fact that it is decentral. The last one worries me a bit, as the coin gets more and more centralized, even geographically.
BTCs development should be in the hands of the people, not in the hands of a few mighty miners that control enormous mine pools. They own enormous consensus power and seem to prioritize their own interest (making money) in front of ethics.

hajimasan

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Quote from: Abiky on March 29, 2017, 01:31:52 PM

What do you think that might happen with Bitcoin if no scalable solution becomes accepted?

Will it remain as a store of value, while other altcoins take the lead for everyday transactions? Or will another cryptocurrency take its place as the top in marketcap?

I would like to know your thoughts about this, as the ongoing scaling debate will further limit Bitcoin from reaching new heights. As for me, I believe that the Bitcoin community would come up at a resolution somehow to put an end to this issue, and make the pioneer cryptocurrency great again. What do you think?

I don't think any altcoin can take place of the bitcoin .
It is because the most of the users in the bitcoin market or you can say cryptocurrency market are dependent upon the bitcoin value and also you can see only few of the altcoins are dependent upon the USD or Another Fiat ( not upont bitcoin fully) .
But most of the altcoins have the value in the price of the bitcoin Satoshi , so here chances to replace the bitcoin by altcoins is impossible .
Since it is another matter that people start to use altcoins than what they have interest in the bitcoin.
And here I think this is start for the bitcoin , Because here the prediction of the bitcoin for the increase in the price of 10k$ in 2021 can't be only the Prediction , after this prediction more and more people are going in the bitcoin Investment for the future .

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