Topic: What will happen with Bitcoin if it never scales? - page 21. (Read 11417 times)

that is your power.

If there's a network split you can dump the version you don't like and trade it for the version you see value in.

I agree, the biggest problem that is driving people away from bitcoin is  the transactions and fee, bitcoin has been for a long time the leader of the cryptocurrency and it will stay that way, but with these problems that it is facing today the alt coins are trying to catch up to it, although they are not as popular as bitcoin, but bitcoin is not accepted in all online shops, but there are many investments in it like debit cards which allows us to use it like regular money.

I think even there he was wrong, unless of course in a trivial way: EVERY monetary asset ultimately fades away.  The only question is: over what time scale ?  10 years ?  50 years ?  500 years ?  The only monetary assets that have a millennia-long history of store of value are gold and to a lesser extend, silver, and some precious stones.  But even precious stones are not eternal.  Obsidian used to be one of the most valuable precious stones in early civilisations, for millennia.  Now, it is very secondary.  Diamonds are now considered precious.  1000 years ago, they weren't.

But no human-created monetary belief system beyond these have ever stood the test of time.  So ultimately, bitcoin will be worthless.  The question is only: when ?  10 years from now ?  50 years from now ?  500 years from now ?

Before that time, bitcoin will be worth something.  And no, it will NEVER be the "money of the world".  Nothing ever is.  Even the dollar is not "the money of the world" although it came close during a few decades after WW II.   The dollar is NOT backing China's economy, Europe's economy.  It is essentially the currency of petrol.

So, apart from the obvious "sooner or later bitcoin will go to 0", bitcoin will not be zero, nor everything.  It will find its niche, until it is replaced, which can take quite some time.  Like all money.

Of course, at a future point in time, one may ask whether some or other cryptomonetary system that has some roots in bitcoin and is more successful, "is" bitcoin, even if one wouldn't recognize it as such. 

" Something that ceased to update/upgrade will never be valuable in technology, they will become obsolete and forgotten."

I agree

I don't think that it'll necessarily affect bitcoin's status as a store of value.

The reasoning behind this is that you don't need something to be a functional currency to be a store of value. For example gold and silver, are they divisible? No. Are they interchangeable? Not really, as you have to go to such trouble to verify each bar's purity.

But yet, mankind still perceives gold and silver as the ultimate store of value.

The same with bitcoin in my opinion, even if it doesn't scale, it'll be digital gold.

If there are no scalable solution then we are left with one solution and that is to change POW to proof of stake or POW. That way all bitcoin holders can participate as long as they have a desktop wallet. If this will be implemented we will no longer rely on the big miners rather all of us will become stakers and bitcoin will become more stable than it ever has.

people will still use it as a speculative tool like gold, to store wealth, and someone will still use it as a currency with the merchants that are accepting it, will remain without any much doubt a niceh market

but if you think about it, if few people will begin to use it, the fee shoudl decrease over time, thus making it usable again

Scaling is not the push factor here, but rather who will be behind the wheel of this experiment. I would rather limp along with a congested network, than having a network that are not secure. < BU dev's have already shown that they cannot secure the code >

People will leave if they know their money is not secure. They did this with all the services and exchanges that were hacked.

The scaling can still be substituted on the 2cnd Tier < Off-chain services > if it is really a problem. The internet runs on TCP/IP, but everything happens on the Application levels. < This is the level with the highest impact for the users >

Can you teach me how am I (a user) actually control Bitcoin?

Because as far as I know, the only "control" I have in Bitcoin is just to buy and sell it and nothing more.

Maybe in the future bitcoin will remain as a stock and currency .
When used as a stock the price when goes up will be of high price , well trading is not for all people.
Currency is being used as a majority by all who are using bitcoins .maybe they earn it through signature campaign , sell it so that they get the fiat.

From what ive seen around here. I think bitcoin scaling problem is just one big scheme or in other words a power grab method on who takes control this digital currency.
But have they forgotten that the one who controls bitcoin is the users itself,  now the miners, community are really mess up bcoz of BU and Cores power grab methods and affecting us normal users.

I guess this BTU will overcome the superiority of bitcoin if bitcoin will no longer scalable. People will turn on using other Altcoins that is worth of their time, and is worth to invest their money, because there is no use to use something that don't have value anymore, it is just a waste of time, hoping for something that won't never happen.

But, I am sure that this come will not come in bitcoin, maybe it will, but it will take a longer time before this thing could happen. Bitcoin solidity is not that easy to penetrate by others Altcoin power, bitcoin is still the superior amongst them.

Because it retains its value. Because its value isn't impacted by country or geo-political risk. Because its supply is finite (once mined). Because its supply isn't influenced susceptible to nefarious manipulation. Because Casascius coins are shiny like gold!

If we ever agree that it has no value, it will have no value. Just like the Dollar...the only reason it has value is because we all agree that it does.

Bitcoin value comes solely from it being listed and traded in the exchanges (Mt. Gox previously).
Bitcoin value is nothing without an exchange (never mind even if it has infinite scalability).
And the values of securities (stocks, options, ETFs, commodities, etc) listed and traded in exchanges are based entirely on falsehood, where value tagged on any particular security is made up and illusory).

If Satoshi's prediction is correct, there are only two possible outcome: (1) zero volume (death) of bitcoin and (2) large volume (mainstream), in 20 years' time (by 2028?). If bitcoin never scales and the volume can't go up, it will die.

How much of this is true, and how much of it is "greater fool game" ?   By this, I mean: suppose that bitcoin has reached its "full scale", whatever that is.  Suppose that bitcoin's use is more or less stable for 10 years and that there is no real hope for greater adoption (because everyone has already adopted it, or because it found its niche, or whatever).  How many people do you think are willing to KEEP bitcoin as an investment, that is, as a secure store of value in the long term ?  And how many people were simply in bitcoin because they were hoping for "moon" and ended up not finding a greater fool to pay them 10 times the price they bought it for ?

For instance, suppose that one would know that in 2025, bitcoin's price is still in the $1000 - $1500.  How many people in bitcoin right now, would think that that is great as a store of value, that they can keep their value unharmed for 8 years (investment) ; how many would sell their coins immediately if they would know that bitcoin was still in the same ballpark 8 years from now ?

If the former, you are right, many people consider bitcoin as a long-term store of value.  If the latter, bitcoin's market cap is nothing else but a bobbal of hot air driven by a greater fool game that collapses from the moment that there's no more moon in sight.

(altcoins are even worse, BTW).

i think if bitcoin remains at 3tps while competitors grow beyond that in actual volume, the first thing you'll see will be a massive exodus to other cryptocurrencies, driven both by demand for actual usage of cryptocurrency as well as speculation.

Bitcoin will continue running but there will be a massive and unrelenting bear trend driven by these fundamentals.
Within a short time, it will become much less profitable to mine, and most miners will quit or move to other coins... difficulty level and network hashrate will drop heavily,
which will kill any delusions people may have had about it being 'gold 2.0' since it won't even be the most secure coin any longer.

Bitcoin will always be the first, so it has the brand, ...there will be a window of opportunity for it to make a comeback (not to #1 necessarily, but at least somewhat competitive) but the longer it goes without scaling, the more the brand will be tarnished until it will become a 'myspace', a has-been in the eyes of the crypto world.

We are at the point where scaling needs to be solved in the next few years.
Bitcoin will stay king for now, but another coin with faster transaction times and better optimized blockchain could definitely take over.

Confirmation time and sending fees are probably the two biggest obstacles for a crypto coin that aims for mass adoption.
(Aside from security and privacy obviously.)

It will become obsolete. As for a store of value, it depends on enough people wanting to buy it.

Now, why would anyone buy it? That's the question.