What's in the game, after all? - page 3.

Betwrong

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Quote from: Ucy on March 15, 2020, 09:52:00 AM

~Gambling in my opinion is simply taking big risk. Adequate knowledge and preparation reduce the risk. If you win consistently with low risk then you definitely not gambling.

If by "low risk" you mean small bets, small enough so that all of them combined add up to an amount you can afford to lose, I agree with you. However, gamblers usually imply a different meaning to the phrase "betting with low risk", namely it means betting with "high winning probability" to them. And that's definitely gambling because expected payouts are low compared to the size of your bet, and the feeling that you can consistently win this way is an illusion.

Quote from: Ucy on March 15, 2020, 09:52:00 AM

Occasionally betting with what you can afford to lose in luck-based games doesn't really qualify as big risk.

Absolutely agree with you on this. In fact, I feel like you know everything I said above, so I wrote it rather in case others might read it, to avoid a possible confusion.

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Quote from: Becky666 on March 15, 2020, 10:11:46 AM

Quote from: doctor877 on February 23, 2020, 11:12:35 AM

I see the fun-filled gamblers as those who have control over the game, no pressure , no anxiety , no fear. They simply take whatever outcomes they see. Most times these kinds of people are winners. When they take it as fun not for the money. But anytime there is a switch, the reverse can be the case.

That's the truth fellas, personally, I get involved into gambling as processe of getting fun from the games and also getting been entertain while gambling. I have never take gamble as a means to earn money but as a process to have fun with friends and family around me. I do gamble with my siblings also and this has been one of my best time with love ones. So, the outcome of the game is fun with friends and families

I don't think it is uncommon

What you refer to here is a way of communication and socializing spiced up by a certain element of risk inherent to any game (though not necessarily a game of chance like dice). For instance, Bill Gates is said to be playing poker with Warren Buffett, and they obviously stake something to make the game more interesting and exciting for them (probably, a million there and a million here)

In this manner, it is definitely about the process itself, as well as what you are exactly looking for in, and getting from, that process. However, things are different when you are playing online (read, alone), and the answer may be not that straightforward as to why you are gambling at all, provided you are playing for something other than money (or the scent of money, as it were)

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Quote from: doctor877 on February 23, 2020, 11:12:35 AM

I see the fun-filled gamblers as those who have control over the game, no pressure , no anxiety , no fear. They simply take whatever outcomes they see. Most times these kinds of people are winners. When they take it as fun not for the money. But anytime there is a switch, the reverse can be the case.

That's the truth fellas, personally, I get involved into gambling as processe of getting fun from the games and also getting been entertain while gambling. I have never take gamble as a means to earn money but as a process to have fun with friends and family around me. I do gamble with my siblings also and this has been one of my best time with love ones. So, the outcome of the game is fun with friends and families.

Ucy

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Quote from: Betwrong on March 09, 2020, 08:34:13 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 07, 2020, 11:19:36 AM

~
As a rule, we take our successes as something granted, something we have been born for. On the other hand, we are prone to strongly exaggerate our failures and setbacks feeling miserable, disappointed and resentful as if luck played a dirty trick on us. In short, we feel deceived
~

Since we tend to apply this approach to almost anything in life, I think gambling can be of some help in understanding very important things.

When we come to realize that we lose mainly not because of the bad luck, but rather because of the house edge and our bad money management, the things we didn't consider before, we can also comprehend that we fail exams and job interviews mainly because of our lack of knowledge and experience, and we can start improving ourselves instead of blaming all our failures on bad luck.

(Note: You can't improve anything in luck based games except the obvious commitment to not stake more than you can afford to lose).

Exactly.
Something as easy/simple as farming could be considered gambling without proper knowledge on farming. I guess the proper word for what we call gambling here is betting/prediction market. Gambling in my opinion is simply taking big risk. Adequate knowledge and preparation reduce the risk. If you win consistently with low risk then you definitely not gambling. Occasionally betting with what you can afford to lose in luck-based games doesn't really qualify as big risk.

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on March 11, 2020, 12:47:23 PM

Quote from: Betwrong on March 11, 2020, 10:28:24 AM

Can it be then that addicted gamblers are acting against the way nature made us? Because they don't care about possible negative developments, and, at the same time, they have exaggerated emotional response to potential wins. Not to real ones, which would be quite natural, but to those that haven't occurred yet(and may never occur before they lose their bankroll), wins they cherish only in their imagination

In fact, I have already raised the very same question in the past

And more importantly, I even answered it, though I'm not sure if the answer will make you happy. The truth is, casinos turn the tables in their favor and make nature work against the gamblers. It is exactly their overreaction that saved their ancestors a few hundred thousand years ago in the depths of Africa which is now working against them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldXUIMzw9A

Especially the trigger-happy ones

Yeah, I think I will never agree to the notion that casinos are some evil monsters living from destroying people's lives. To me what they are doing is providing platform for entertainment and taking a fee for that.

Some people say that food stores arrange products in such a way so that customers would buy as much unnecessary stuff as possible, which leads to obesity in some cases. Same goes for the clothing shops playing music that makes you buy more. But to me they are just stores where I can buy food and clothes. I don't blame them for trying to make more money, and I'm grateful that they exist.

But that's me, I respect other people's views, of course. I just think I have the right to my own opinion on this matter.

Kurokonobasuke

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I just play game for my personal entertainment because it helps me to removed all my problems in life by just keep winning in every game that I joined. I just keep playing because it war very enjoying when my ideal strategies gives me a win. If I didn't win in once game it boosts me to think another strategies that will surely win in the next game. Victory gives me happiness because I proved to myself on what can I do, so that my self-esteem are getting higher.

deisik

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Quote from: Betwrong on March 11, 2020, 10:28:24 AM

Can it be then that addicted gamblers are acting against the way nature made us? Because they don't care about possible negative developments, and, at the same time, they have exaggerated emotional response to potential wins. Not to real ones, which would be quite natural, but to those that haven't occurred yet(and may never occur before they lose their bankroll), wins they cherish only in their imagination

In fact, I have already raised the very same question in the past

And more importantly, I even answered it, though I'm not sure if the answer will make you happy. The truth is, casinos turn the tables in their favor and make nature work against the gamblers. It is exactly their overreaction that saved their ancestors a few hundred thousand years ago in the depths of Africa which is now working against them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldXUIMzw9A

Especially the trigger-happy ones

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on March 09, 2020, 09:46:08 AM

~
It is the way nature made us

To survive, we had to be excessively cautious of anything that was potentially dangerous to us. That's why most things which we consider beneficial don't cause such an exaggerated emotional response compared to things that are likely to hurt us. In simple terms, we are wired to overreact in response to negative events and developments as this is essentially a result of natural selection. Better safe than sorry

Interesting. Can it be then that addicted gamblers are acting against the way nature made us? Because they don't care about possible negative developments, and, at the same time, they have exaggerated emotional response to potential wins. Not to real ones, which would be quite natural, but to those that haven't occurred yet(and may never occur before they lose their bankroll), wins they cherish only in their imagination.

deisik

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Quote from: Betwrong on March 09, 2020, 08:34:13 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 07, 2020, 11:19:36 AM

~
As a rule, we take our successes as something granted, something we have been born for. On the other hand, we are prone to strongly exaggerate our failures and setbacks feeling miserable, disappointed and resentful as if luck played a dirty trick on us. In short, we feel deceived

Since we tend to apply this approach to almost anything in life, I think gambling can be of some help in understanding very important thingse

It is the way nature made us

To survive, we had to be excessively cautious of anything that was potentially dangerous to us. That's why most things which we consider beneficial don't cause such an exaggerated emotional response compared to things that are likely to hurt us. In simple terms, we are wired to overreact in response to negative events and developments as this is essentially a result of natural selection. Better safe than sorry

Quote from: Betwrong on March 09, 2020, 08:34:13 AM

Note: You can't improve anything in luck based games except the obvious commitment to not stake more than you can afford to lose

Things are more complicated than that, but you already know it

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on March 07, 2020, 11:19:36 AM

~
As a rule, we take our successes as something granted, something we have been born for. On the other hand, we are prone to strongly exaggerate our failures and setbacks feeling miserable, disappointed and resentful as if luck played a dirty trick on us. In short, we feel deceived
~

Since we tend to apply this approach to almost anything in life, I think gambling can be of some help in understanding very important things.

When we come to realize that we lose mainly not because of the bad luck, but rather because of the house edge and our bad money management, the things we didn't consider before, we can also comprehend that we fail exams and job interviews mainly because of our lack of knowledge and experience, and we can start improving ourselves instead of blaming all our failures on bad luck.

(Note: You can't improve anything in luck based games except the obvious commitment to not stake more than you can afford to lose).

Eugenar

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The only good thing that you may acquire in the gambling is entertainment and fun, and money as well if you have luck on that day, but do you think you are the only winner on that day if you win the prize or the reward? Actually all gambling sites are the same, and the winner is only the owner of the websites, they are the one who win because of all the bet you put in the game, it is very impossible to win the gambling if it doesn't requires you to use skills and knowledge.

It is better to play gambling in those game that requires your skills and knowledge, like blackjack, etc. those are the games that have more chance to win than the game that only rely on your luck, or the game that you are only waiting for the outcome and you don't do any skills or apply knowledge.

The worst thing about it is you may become so addicted to it, in way that you don't care anymore to the things around you, you are only focused on the gambling, you became unproductive.

Best Dreams

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Quote from: Betwrong on March 07, 2020, 05:18:33 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 27, 2020, 07:53:12 AM

~Indeed, your chances for a win are lower the higher the multiplier, therefore you are expecting to lose most of your bets, and when you win it feels like good luck to you. When you bet on a lower multiplier, your chances to win are higher, therefore you hope to win most of your bets. But when you fail, you start to blame luck and call it bad luck

I well remember when I was only starting my gambling career(if I may use the word "career" being not a professional gambler), and was exploring various gambling strategies, I was always blaming my failures on bad luck, and when I was winning I thought it was because of my skill. The fun part is that it wasn't poker even, it was dice ffs!

Gambling is a game that simply has no set rules of strategies and laws that govern the game. So everyone plays it in his or her own style and according to their intellectual levels and sharpness of mind. This is why people blame winning and losing on fate, skills, greed etc. most of the times.

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Quote from: Betwrong on March 07, 2020, 05:18:33 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 27, 2020, 07:53:12 AM

~Indeed, your chances for a win are lower the higher the multiplier, therefore you are expecting to lose most of your bets, and when you win it feels like good luck to you. When you bet on a lower multiplier, your chances to win are higher, therefore you hope to win most of your bets. But when you fail, you start to blame luck and call it bad luck

I well remember when I was only starting my gambling career(if I may use the word "career" being not a professional gambler), and was exploring various gambling strategies, I was always blaming my failures on bad luck, and when I was winning I thought it was because of my skill. The fun part is that it wasn't poker even, it was dice ffs!

This seems to be a widespread and omnipresent mental bias

As a rule, we take our successes as something granted, something we have been born for. On the other hand, we are prone to strongly exaggerate our failures and setbacks feeling miserable, disappointed and resentful as if luck played a dirty trick on us. In short, we feel deceived

Because of this, the wins (in dice or anywhere else) don't have as strong an effect on us as our losses. So when we lose, it often feels like the end of the world for us. To put it another way, we are highly prone to overreaction, and still more so with respect to negative events, outcomes and developments

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on February 27, 2020, 07:53:12 AM

~Indeed, your chances for a win are lower the higher the multiplier, therefore you are expecting to lose most of your bets, and when you win it feels like good luck to you. When you bet on a lower multiplier, your chances to win are higher, therefore you hope to win most of your bets. But when you fail, you start to blame luck and call it bad luck

I well remember when I was only starting my gambling career(if I may use the word "career" being not a professional gambler), and was exploring various gambling strategies, I was always blaming my failures on bad luck, and when I was winning I thought it was because of my skill. The fun part is that it wasn't poker even, it was dice ffs!

doctor877

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At times the feeling of togetherness with your friends and fellow gamblers is what matters to some people, while some just enjoy the feeling of being the best gambler even though there is no monetary gain but they feel at the top of the world. That's how it is. Gambling for money is a one way thing while gambling for fun can be diversified.

deisik

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Quote from: Betwrong on February 27, 2020, 07:26:55 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 26, 2020, 10:25:45 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on February 26, 2020, 08:34:32 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 25, 2020, 12:25:48 PM

~
It proves that with higher multipliers you are more susceptible to bouts of bad luck.

Idk, to me bad luck is when you bet with 95% win chance and lose. When I bet with 0.01% win chance(which I frequently do), I don't consider it bad luck when I lose, tbh. That's why I almost never bet with 50%+ win chance, I don't want to give that bad luck a chance

Opinions obviously vary

As I got it, you consider the whole process statically, i.e. you weigh your chances for the next roll only. In other words, if you expect to lose but win (like with a very low multiplier), it is good luck to you. Conversely, if you expect to win but lose (with a very high multiplier), it is bad luck.~

Actually, it's the other way around.

And although I feel like you knew what I meant, and you just accidentally miswrote it, I want to clarify it for others, who might read this thread

My fault, thanks for the correction (edited my post)

I should have written "high multiplier" instead of "low multiplier", and vice versa. Indeed, your chances for a win are lower the higher the multiplier, therefore you are expecting to lose most of your bets, and when you win it feels like good luck to you. When you bet on a lower multiplier, your chances to win are higher, therefore you hope to win most of your bets. But when you fail, you start to blame luck and call it bad luck

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on February 26, 2020, 10:25:45 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on February 26, 2020, 08:34:32 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 25, 2020, 12:25:48 PM

~
It proves that with higher multipliers you are more susceptible to bouts of bad luck.

Idk, to me bad luck is when you bet with 95% win chance and lose. When I bet with 0.01% win chance(which I frequently do), I don't consider it bad luck when I lose, tbh. That's why I almost never bet with 50%+ win chance, I don't want to give that bad luck a chance

Opinions obviously vary

As I got it, you consider the whole process statically, i.e. you weigh your chances for the next roll only. In other words, if you expect to lose but win (like with a very low multiplier), it is good luck to you. Conversely, if you expect to win but lose (with a very high multiplier), it is bad luck.~

Actually, it's the other way around.

And although I feel like you knew what I meant, and you just accidentally miswrote it, I want to clarify it for others, who might read this thread.

When someone is betting with a low win chance(a high multiplier/payout), and loses, we can't call it bad luck, because losing was pretty much expected with like 1% win chance or lower. So, you shouldn't feel bad after losing such a bet.

Betting with a high win chance(a low multiplier/payout) is a different story entirely. When you bet $100 with 90% win chance, expecting to win $10("It's 90% win chance after all!"), and you lose your $100, that's a bad luck, and you have all the reasons to feel bad about the outcome.

That's why I prefer betting with very low win chance: if I win, I win big, and I'm glad about it; and when I lose, it's not a tragedy, and it's not a bad luck even, as I explained earlier. Bad luck has no chances of striking you if you are betting with high odds.

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Quote from: STT on February 26, 2020, 06:11:09 PM

50/50 isnt bad luck, its fair game as it can go either way

It is never 50/50 (or 49.5/50.5 given the typical house edge)

And it is never so (unless you make a few million rolls) specifically because of the randomness of the game. I mean games of chance like dice. You can make a few thousand rolls and still see the effect of luck. But luck is never fair unless you consider fair when luck is on your side. But then you will have to cope with bad luck, which should feel double unfair to you as no luck at all would be simply unfair from your perspective

STT

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50/50 isnt bad luck, its fair game as it can go either way.

Quote

they are gambling is because of the money

Money isnt the main reason for anything is a better argument because people are motivated unequally. I think money is a good representative and proxy for a number of other things wanted and because money can be used on anything it amplifies the attraction to winning by representing all hopes in one. So its hard to resist that but still I think we have underlying reasons for gambling and sometimes the win reward is from the lucky factors and defying odds, this can be greater then the money which does have to be spent to actually do anything.

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Quote from: Betwrong on February 26, 2020, 08:34:32 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 25, 2020, 12:25:48 PM

~
It proves that with higher multipliers you are more susceptible to bouts of bad luck.

Idk, to me bad luck is when you bet with 95% win chance and lose. When I bet with 0.01% win chance(which I frequently do), I don't consider it bad luck when I lose, tbh. That's why I almost never bet with 50%+ win chance, I don't want to give that bad luck a chance

Opinions obviously vary

As I got it, you consider the whole process statically, i.e. you weigh your chances for the next roll only. In other words, if you expect to lose but win (like with a very high multiplier, meaning a low win chance), it is good luck to you. Conversely, if you expect to win but lose (with a very low multiplier, meaning a high win chance), it is bad luck. But what you expect to get is what you are expected to get anyway, luck aside (pardon the seeming tautology)

I, on the other hand, think of the whole process more in terms of losing streaks rather than single rolls. In this way, if I see a longer losing streak than I would expect on any given multiplier, it is bad luck to me (and vice versa). But with higher multipliers (lower chances) you are going to see greater variance, and that means both shorter and longer losing streaks (bad luck on the loose) than what you would otherwise expect

Topic: What's in the game, after all? - page 3. (Read 4813 times)