What's in the game, after all? - page 6.

deisik

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Quote from: Betwrong on February 10, 2020, 09:24:13 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 10, 2020, 04:34:00 AM

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Further, it is definitely not about many times or multiple times, not even speaking about countless times. I don't deny the fact that you can win big time a few times (pardon the pun) but it is not like you (or whoever) are constantly winning insane amounts of cash all the time. So yes, it is possible to win 7 times (though it is highly suspicious with lotteries), but do you really think it proves that you can beat the odds all the time?

I think it proves that someone, can be beating the odds for a pretty long period of time, long enough to consider himself a pro in this business, and to be considered as such by others

Let's focus on what we know best, i.e. gambling

The point is, the longer you play, the more your losses will match the pattern defined by the house edge. You can win insane amounts a dozen times but only if the total count of your rolls is not much higher. If the number of your bets hits millions and keeps rising, there is less and less chance you are going to be that outlier you are talking about (unless you use martingale and earn dust)

The sad truth is that even if 10 billion people roll 10 billion times each, all of them will be losing because we are dealing here with one dynamic, i.e. the effect of the house edge, massively overriding another dynamic, i.e. a natural tendency of random events to have statistical outliers (what your point comes down to). In other words, you would need like 10 billion billion people rolling under 1 million times each to find that extremely lucky one

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on February 10, 2020, 09:15:16 AM

I consider that having the discipline and controlling ourselves are the things that we need to have. Without these things, gambling can be addicting, and it is hard to escape from gambling if we don't have a strong mind. If we can prevent from addicting, that would be the benefit for you because you don't have to spend all the money on gambling.

All the controls and discipline you have mentioned for a gambler to have will definitely help them to realize what is there in gambling like whether to continue or not. I mean if you have control on your gambling then you may not continue it when you are facing frequent losses. Gamblers must take time to analyze why they gamble. If they find it is good for their heath and funds then they continue. But, I doubt how many gamblers are doing self analysis once in a while.

Quote from: ethereumhunter on February 10, 2020, 09:15:16 AM

I also a gambler, but I know how to treat gambling, and I don't want to become addicted to gambling.

How long you are a gambler. I ask this because no gambler may know themselves as an addicted or not. They do think themselves that they are not addicted to gambling but the way how they gamble and how often they gamble will show that they are actually addicted or not.

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Quote from: deisik on February 10, 2020, 04:34:00 AM

~
Further, it is definitely not about many times or multiple times, not even speaking about countless times. I don't deny the fact that you can win big time a few times (pardon the pun) but it is not like you (or whoever) are constantly winning insane amounts of cash all the time. So yes, it is possible to win 7 times (though it is highly suspicious with lotteries), but do you really think it proves that you can beat the odds all the time?

I think it proves that someone, can be beating the odds for a pretty long period of time, long enough to consider himself a pro in this business, and to be considered as such by others. And this applies not only to gambling. Why do you think those TV healers used to be so popular in the past, and are popular even now in some regions? That is because, with millions of viewers, some people do feel better after watching the telecast, and some people even get well shortly afterwards, either because of the placebo effect, or because they would get well anyway by that time. Unlikely events can happen within a group of millions of people, but one should be an idiot to count on it.

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Quote from: TitanGEL on February 07, 2020, 08:24:30 AM

There are gamblers who got addicted because they do not have good psychology where they cannot control their own greed. Lack of discipline is also the cause of greediness and addiction. Gamblers who stuck in addiction think that they can easily escape that kind of situation but they are wrong because it takes time, effort and confidence. I'm just a mere gambler who seeking enojoyment in playing different gambling games, I also have limitation in order to control myself.

I consider that having the discipline and controlling ourselves are the things that we need to have. Without these things, gambling can be addicting, and it is hard to escape from gambling if we don't have a strong mind. If we can prevent from addicting, that would be the benefit for you because you don't have to spend all the money on gambling. I also a gambler, but I know how to treat gambling, and I don't want to become addicted to gambling.

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Quote from: Betwrong on February 09, 2020, 10:39:58 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 07, 2020, 02:59:50 AM

Given enough rolls and spins, anyone is going to lose due to the house edge unless there is a bug, and they slowly milk the casino without being noticed. So with every spin or roll the chances are in fact decreasing and not rising for him to win big constantly. The implication is that this effect totally offsets the possibility of an extreme outlier like "3-4 gamblers winning big 5-10 years in a row given enough gamblers" (read, it doesn't happen in real life)

But why do you think so? Just because we don't know such people doesn't mean they don't exist. I mean, can you prove your point with applying some math? If it were even theoretically impossible, how would you explain people winning lotteries multiple times?

Well, let's start with the fact that it is not "multiple times"

It should be a couple times, several times, many times, numerous times, or even countless times. "Multiple times" is a common colloquial usage nowadays but it doesn't make it more correct, as you seem to be looking to improve your English (the same is equally applicable to "multiple winners", while we are at it). Multiple refers to many instances of the same thing or parts of that thing, but it can't refer to different times or periods of time, no matter how many or few

Further, it is definitely not about many times or multiple times, not even speaking about countless times. I don't deny the fact that you can win big time a few times (pardon the pun) but it is not like you (or whoever) are constantly winning insane amounts of cash all the time. So yes, it is possible to win 7 times (though it is highly suspicious with lotteries), but do you really think it proves that you can beat the odds all the time?

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Quote from: deisik on February 07, 2020, 02:59:50 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on February 06, 2020, 09:28:17 AM

However, with hundreds of millions(1.6 billion, by some estimations) people gambling each year, there have to be deviations from the general rule, and it can be 50, or even 100 people, who win big from playing dice(or another luck based game) during a particular year. And 3-4 gamblers(out of 1.6 billion) winning big 5-10 years in row is also possible. And, whatever they might think, the reason for their winnings was pure luck, and not their strategies, witchcraft, prayers or whatever. And the sooner they understand it, the more money they will save

I understand where you are coming from and leading to

Basically, you proceed, either consciously or intuitively, from the theory (law) of large numbers, and assume that given enough trials everything becomes possible (read, someone winning all the time). But it actually proves the exact opposite. To be more specific, it tells us that the casino will be winning long-term, even if it may lose some money in a single roll of dice or spin of a roulette. It is like two infinities with one winning over the other the longer you play

Given enough rolls and spins, anyone is going to lose due to the house edge unless there is a bug, and they slowly milk the casino without being noticed. So with every spin or roll the chances are in fact decreasing and not rising for him to win big constantly. The implication is that this effect totally offsets the possibility of an extreme outlier like "3-4 gamblers winning big 5-10 years in a row given enough gamblers" (read, it doesn't happen in real life)

But why do you think so? Just because we don't know such people doesn't mean they don't exist. I mean, can you prove your point with applying some math? If it were even theoretically impossible, how would you explain people winning lotteries multiple times?

Quote from: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/31/harvard-prof-on-odds-of-winning-multiple-lotteries-like-these-people.html

In fact, there are many recent stories of people who have been lucky enough to win the lottery multiple times — whether it’s a $1,000 prize or a $1 million jackpot.

Not all of those multiple winners understand that they were just extreme outliers. And they start writing books, and giving tips on how to win etc., like the guy from the link below, for example:

Quote from: https://www.jpost.com/PromoContent/Finance/How-to-Win-the-Lottery-7-Time-Lottery-Winner-Reveals-His-Nine-Tips-498640

How to Win the Lottery - 7 Time Lottery Winner Reveals His Nine Tips

But I think that they are no smarter than any other gambler, and that the only thing that helped them to win was luck, and not their brain.

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Quote from: Debonaire217 on February 09, 2020, 03:06:12 AM

Quote from: AicecreaME on February 09, 2020, 02:47:31 AM

People fail to notice what their weaknesses because they are focusing on other's people business, that is why it leads to their own disadvantage, which is they failed to correct or to learn from their own mistakes. They are busy getting in people's life while they are ignoring the fact that they also needs help, they act tough behind of all the losses they are having everyday when they are playing gambling, but they are destroying themselves inside.

In the world of gambling, it seems that you're on your own, but the fact that you need to learn a lesson too should be considered. In this case, you might as well seek help from people who have experience that you could use, in order to bet and win with higher percentage.

Nope, I am totally good. What I'm talking about here is the people addicted in gambling, I know I've explained it well but I guess you misunderstood everything that I've said, you could re-read it though.

Quote from: Debonaire217 on February 09, 2020, 03:06:12 AM

In my experience, I also tend to ask others gambling life, how often they lose and how much they gain, with these, if I bet, I could apply all the lesson they've provided and the rest would be discovered by me.

Good for you, because that is more better than shouldering all of the stress you have in gambling. But I think you couldn't use their advices at all potential because they are them and you are you, what is going to happen to you when you gamble is different from the people you asked what to do.

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Quote from: deisik on February 07, 2020, 09:08:32 AM

All in all, people do not only fail to learn from the mistakes of others, they also fail to learn from their own mistakes

And people like them will just stop gambling if they learned from their mistakes but there will be some people who will become stupid for a moment and will try their luck again in gambling hoping that they will win on it.

I don't see that as a "fail" but I think its pure greediness. They don't want them to learn from it because they only have one goal and it is to win. They aren't learning from their mistakes because they want to win. They are getting eaten by greed. They will just stop and learn when they realize their fault or they don't have money to use to gamble.

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Quote from: blckhawk on February 06, 2020, 08:58:57 PM

There are other types of games in relation to gambling. Rolling dice might not be the most entertaining one. Some types of gambling games that could entertain a gambler is betting on something, like in horse racing. The anticipation is what drives them to be thrilled. Other type of games include card games, some with few mechanics, but is still based on luck.

What I see that can also entertain a user is the interaction he gets on gambling. Chat rooms and such also adds to the entertainment and enjoyment they feel.

Indeed, Dice might not be the most entertaining game, however it can be the game that gives the most profits.
Apart from the profits, it is a game that it is understood easily by anyone.
That's why all casinos have this game and a lot of users are playing it.

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Quote from: AicecreaME on February 09, 2020, 02:47:31 AM

People fail to notice what their weaknesses because they are focusing on other's people business, that is why it leads to their own disadvantage, which is they failed to correct or to learn from their own mistakes. They are busy getting in people's life while they are ignoring the fact that they also needs help, they act tough behind of all the losses they are having everyday when they are playing gambling, but they are destroying themselves inside.

In the world of gambling, it seems that you're on your own, but the fact that you need to learn a lesson too should be considered. In this case, you might as well seek help from people who have experience that you could use, in order to bet and win with higher percentage.

In my experience, I also tend to ask others gambling life, how often they lose and how much they gain, with these, if I bet, I could apply all the lesson they've provided and the rest would be discovered by me.

AicecreaME

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Quote from: deisik on February 07, 2020, 09:08:32 AM

All in all, people do not only fail to learn from the mistakes of others, they also fail to learn from their own mistakes

People fail to notice what their weaknesses because they are focusing on other's people business, that is why it leads to their own disadvantage, which is they failed to correct or to learn from their own mistakes. They are busy getting in people's life while they are ignoring the fact that they also needs help, they act tough behind of all the losses they are having everyday when they are playing gambling, but they are destroying themselves inside.

To simply put this thing up, humans are very fragile being, the feelings we have inside are the one which gets us into trouble, that is why self-management is very important to all of the individuals, especially when it comes to addiction.

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Quote from: deisik on January 10, 2020, 04:16:41 PM

What do people actually feel when gambling with motives other than purely financial? What do they get out of it? My take is that they are feeling in control of their fate, even if only for very brief moments. Simply put, that they are not losers, and luck is on their side, at least sometimes. Indeed, we all know that this feeling is fleeting and false overall, but it is so nice and pleasant that we are ready to pay for it, up to a point where we get addicted to it

I don't think it's realistic to say that when you gamble you are in control of your fate, the fact is you are not unless you are a high caliber gambler, the dice or the card and the house edge is in control of the game and it's your choice which is based on guess and luck will get you the outcome, you are not really in control because you are hoping to win.

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Quote from: bitcoinst on February 06, 2020, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 05, 2020, 08:38:11 AM

However, this is how it may play out in the end (pun intended as well). I mean people lose big time and that teaches them a lesson, the hard way, that is. So they end up "personally grown" in a sense (not all but many). A few years ago I lost like 1.5 BTC in one losing streak at PD, and I guess that taught me something. The point is, if we can use such an experience in other areas of our lives (transfer it), it may be worth the buck (lost) after all

That's right. Our brain is designed in such a way that only our own mistakes help us to learn and develop. The main question is how each individual relates to their own mistakes

That's the real problem

And our brains are in fact designed in such a way that we are prone to repeat our own mistakes again and again. When it comes to making a decision, especially in stressful, complex and out of time situations, we are bound to rely on our feelings as a fallback and contingency option because we may not have time to make an informed decision based entirely on rational considerations

We just happen to feel right about something, and that gives way to all sorts of delusions, misconceptions and logical fallacies. All in all, people do not only fail to learn from the mistakes of others, they also fail to learn from their own mistakes as that requires a conscious and strenuous effort of rewiring one's brains and behavioral patterns -- a feat that very few of us are capable of

TitanGEL

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Quote from: Mumbeeptind1963 on February 07, 2020, 07:50:12 AM

Quote from: blckhawk on February 06, 2020, 08:58:57 PM

There are other types of games in relation to gambling. Rolling dice might not be the most entertaining one. Some types of gambling games that could entertain a gambler is betting on something, like in horse racing. The anticipation is what drives them to be thrilled. Other type of games include card games, some with few mechanics, but is still based on luck.

What I see that can also entertain a user is the interaction he gets on gambling. Chat rooms and such also adds to the entertainment and enjoyment they feel.

Yes you may have fun here as well, chat rooms are good , you will meet new people, new friends, that can share their strategies in the game as well it can be helpful , it can be helpful if you will gain that, having a mentor is good in the game.

Quote from: Ucy on February 07, 2020, 03:57:27 AM

I guess the *bad thing* you are referring to is the addiction. Well, many first time lottery player for example, likely won't get addicted in their first games. So, one would wonder what could cause a lottery player to get addicted? Maybe sound, greed, cute images, colors,. etc? I think some "fun/pleasurable" things attached to the lottery definitely could cause someone to become a regular player despite not winning or improving.

Addiction will only happen if and only if the gambler is very greedy, well it is given that sometimes we are being like that, and we cannot stop ourselves but we must! that is the root of the addiction, it can lead to that if you only be happy and have fun in gambling then being greedy will take out in the game.

There are gamblers who got addicted because they do not have good psychology where they cannot control their own greed. Lack of discipline is also the cause of greediness and addiction. Gamblers who stuck in addiction think that they can easily escape that kind of situation but they are wrong because it takes time, effort and confidence. I'm just a mere gambler who seeking enojoyment in playing different gambling games, I also have limitation in order to control myself.

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Quote from: blckhawk on February 06, 2020, 08:58:57 PM

There are other types of games in relation to gambling. Rolling dice might not be the most entertaining one. Some types of gambling games that could entertain a gambler is betting on something, like in horse racing. The anticipation is what drives them to be thrilled. Other type of games include card games, some with few mechanics, but is still based on luck.

What I see that can also entertain a user is the interaction he gets on gambling. Chat rooms and such also adds to the entertainment and enjoyment they feel.

Yes you may have fun here as well, chat rooms are good , you will meet new people, new friends, that can share their strategies in the game as well it can be helpful , it can be helpful if you will gain that, having a mentor is good in the game.

Quote from: Ucy on February 07, 2020, 03:57:27 AM

I guess the *bad thing* you are referring to is the addiction. Well, many first time lottery player for example, likely won't get addicted in their first games. So, one would wonder what could cause a lottery player to get addicted? Maybe sound, greed, cute images, colors,. etc? I think some "fun/pleasurable" things attached to the lottery definitely could cause someone to become a regular player despite not winning or improving.

Addiction will only happen if and only if the gambler is very greedy, well it is given that sometimes we are being like that, and we cannot stop ourselves but we must! that is the root of the addiction, it can lead to that if you only be happy and have fun in gambling then being greedy will take out in the game.

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Quote from: doomistake on February 06, 2020, 12:35:13 PM

Correct.

There is this saying or lyrics in a song saying that you should be afraid of not trying than risking something, so basically, even if we lose any amount of money in gambling, the most important thing to look or to realize is the fact that we gave it a try. The result might be devastating for us that could cause depression or frustration, but we just need to look on silver linings in life to gives us hope after a mistake (is it?).

I do see every life opportunity as a learning experience. Bad or good, and gambling, is definitely one I learnt a lot about myself from. I know that I do not really have good discipline,,, and I learnt also I can offer support to friends and that I truly have friends as we have helped each other through times of stress (gambling related).

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Quote from: SquallLeonhart on February 06, 2020, 12:59:26 PM

Quote from: doomistake on February 06, 2020, 12:35:13 PM

There is this saying or lyrics in a song saying that you should be afraid of not trying than risking something, so basically, even if we lose any amount of money in gambling, the most important thing to look or to realize is the fact that we gave it a try. The result might be devastating for us that could cause depression or frustration, but we just need to look on silver linings in life to gives us hope after a mistake (is it?).

Probably you are misunderstanding that saying. You must try something it is already proven for your betterment in your life. It means you should not try what is already proven injurious to your health and wealth. You should afraid of doing those proven bad things and trying them is not just risking but it is like playing with snake even after knowing what will a snake do.

You may put your efforts in something to innovate something which is risking your efforts and it will be welcome by everyone and you should not bother about the final outcome; here that saying fits more appropriately. You are welcome to risk on something rather than being lazy but those try should not be on already proven bad things.

I guess the *bad thing* you are referring to is the addiction. Well, many first time lottery player for example, likely won't get addicted in their first games. So, one would wonder what could cause a lottery player to get addicted? Maybe sound, greed, cute images, colors,. etc? I think some "fun/pleasurable" things attached to the lottery definitely could cause someone to become a regular player despite not winning or improving.

deisik

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Quote from: Betwrong on February 06, 2020, 09:28:17 AM

However, with hundreds of millions(1.6 billion, by some estimations) people gambling each year, there have to be deviations from the general rule, and it can be 50, or even 100 people, who win big from playing dice(or another luck based game) during a particular year. And 3-4 gamblers(out of 1.6 billion) winning big 5-10 years in row is also possible. And, whatever they might think, the reason for their winnings was pure luck, and not their strategies, witchcraft, prayers or whatever. And the sooner they understand it, the more money they will save

I understand where you are coming from and leading to

Basically, you proceed, either consciously or intuitively, from the theory (law) of large numbers, and assume that given enough trials everything becomes possible (read, someone winning all the time). But it actually proves the exact opposite. To be more specific, it tells us that the casino will be winning long-term, even if it may lose some money in a single roll of dice or spin of a roulette. It is like two infinities with one winning over the other the longer you play

Given enough rolls and spins, anyone is going to lose due to the house edge unless there is a bug, and they slowly milk the casino without being noticed. So with every spin or roll the chances are in fact decreasing and not rising for him to win big constantly. The implication is that this effect totally offsets the possibility of an extreme outlier like "3-4 gamblers winning big 5-10 years in a row given enough gamblers" (read, it doesn't happen in real life)

blckhawk

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There are other types of games in relation to gambling. Rolling dice might not be the most entertaining one. Some types of gambling games that could entertain a gambler is betting on something, like in horse racing. The anticipation is what drives them to be thrilled. Other type of games include card games, some with few mechanics, but is still based on luck.

What I see that can also entertain a user is the interaction he gets on gambling. Chat rooms and such also adds to the entertainment and enjoyment they feel.

SquallLeonhart

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Quote from: doomistake on February 06, 2020, 12:35:13 PM

There is this saying or lyrics in a song saying that you should be afraid of not trying than risking something, so basically, even if we lose any amount of money in gambling, the most important thing to look or to realize is the fact that we gave it a try. The result might be devastating for us that could cause depression or frustration, but we just need to look on silver linings in life to gives us hope after a mistake (is it?).

Probably you are misunderstanding that saying. You must try something it is already proven for your betterment in your life. It means you should not try what is already proven injurious to your health and wealth. You should afraid of doing those proven bad things and trying them is not just risking but it is like playing with snake even after knowing what will a snake do.

You may put your efforts in something to innovate something which is risking your efforts and it will be welcome by everyone and you should not bother about the final outcome; here that saying fits more appropriately. You are welcome to risk on something rather than being lazy but those try should not be on already proven bad things.

Topic: What's in the game, after all? - page 6. (Read 4813 times)