When will the USA pay their debts, if ever? - page 14.

Robert Paulson

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Quote from: bl4kjaguar on September 26, 2014, 02:52:37 PM

Quote from: krodmandoon on September 26, 2014, 01:29:06 PM

it is the debt that backs the fiat.

If there is so much debt...

Why haven't the creditors foreclosed on America?

because America is still able to continue rolling over its debt because China continues to pump those cheap loans like a dealer to a drug addict.
basically China is now in control, if America upsets China in anyway, those loans are gone, along with the American economy.

krodmandoon

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Quote from: bl4kjaguar on September 26, 2014, 02:52:37 PM

Quote from: krodmandoon on September 26, 2014, 01:29:06 PM

it is the debt that backs the fiat.

If there is so much debt...

Why haven't the creditors foreclosed on America?

because...man...America is an idea....you can't forclose on an idea.

The creditors would lose money in this instance because not only are they our financiers but they are also our biggest trade partner.

bl4kjaguar

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Quote from: krodmandoon on September 26, 2014, 01:29:06 PM

it is the debt that backs the fiat.

If there is so much debt...

Why haven't the creditors foreclosed on America?

krodmandoon

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it is the debt that backs the fiat.

Robert Paulson

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Quote from: cryptofan5 on September 26, 2014, 12:44:32 AM

I think they can keep printing money for many years and major conflicts like against islamic state for example, only help the economy. As many countries owe money to the US as US owes to them, so in the end the national debt is kind of balanced.

you have no idea what your talking about.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/international/intinv/intinvnewsrelease.htm

"The U.S. net international investment position at the end of the second quarter of 2014 was -$5,445.1 billion (preliminary) as the value of U.S. liabilities exceeded the value of U.S. assets (chart 1, table 1)."

America is a net debtor and owes the world 5.4 trillion dollars.

not only that but it continues to only get worse, America has a trade deficit of about 40 billion $ a month with the rest of the world

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

if no one agrees to loan the money, America can't pay for its imports anymore.

cryptofan5

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I think they can keep printing money for many years and major conflicts like against islamic state for example, only help the economy. As many countries owe money to the US as US owes to them, so in the end the national debt is kind of balanced.

BTCfan668

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Quote from: blatchcorn on September 25, 2014, 06:30:25 AM

Who does the USA owe all this money to?

Mostly to foreign governments (China is our biggest creditor but there are other large governments that we owe a lot of money to).

Another creditor of note is the social security trust fund. It owns trillions of dollars of treasuries which can be redeemed when expenditures exceed FICA taxes

blatchcorn

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Who does the USA owe all this money to?

Grand_Voyageur

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Quote from: Chompa on August 24, 2014, 04:04:43 AM

When will the USA pay their debts, if ever?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

A country owning a reserve currency is not in a dire straits need to repay it's debts like HIPC (High Indebted Poor Country) countries. Maybe if China become too hostile...things could change a bit.

greeneye222

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Only they will know.. Maybe it wont be paid by money at all. Maybe it will be paid by services, and I mean "secret" services.

vitaminwater

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The debts valuation is in US currency so they don't have to. It's in their best interests not to, at least for the time being

BTCfaucetTIME

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Quote from: gigEls on September 14, 2014, 10:52:45 AM

Quote from: lihuajkl on August 29, 2014, 09:53:09 PM

The Fed will keep printing dollar to keep their balance sheet under controlled. The debt ceiling will be raised again and again. At least they can make the creditors believe they can pay back when due.

Maybe for now, but at some point creditors realize they are not going to get their money. Living above ones means isn't sustainable.

Governments actually can, in theory continue to issue debt in perpetuity as long as their GDP grows faster then the amount of total debt. If GDP grows faster then the total debt as a percentage of total national income will decrease, thus making it easier to service.

phanhan

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According to my opinion.
Follow me, Money is debt. Money is created by issuing loans.
If the debt is paid off there is no money, it is designed to never be paid off.

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wasserman99

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Quote from: zorke on September 13, 2014, 02:22:11 AM

Quote from: lyth0s on September 13, 2014, 01:50:07 AM

Quote from: itsAj on August 30, 2014, 11:10:54 PM

Quote from: bl4kjaguar on August 30, 2014, 10:11:47 PM

Quote from: itsAj on August 30, 2014, 09:46:48 PM

Quote from: lyth0s on August 29, 2014, 10:44:53 PM

Quote from: lihuajkl on August 29, 2014, 09:53:09 PM

The Fed will keep printing dollar to keep their balance sheet under controlled. The debt ceiling will be raised again and again. At least they can make the creditors believe they can pay back when due.

Exactly. Debt will always raise faster since we have to pay the federal reserve interest for every dollar printed. This means that we can never, ever pay off our national debt. If the debt ceiling is ever truly capped, then our economy collapses and becomes crushed under the debt (there will always be more debt than actual dollars). This is why the US credit rating is under fire every time there is even discussion about "not increasing the debt ceiling".

The debt ceiling is only capped by statue, as long as congress continues to raise the ceiling the US government's ability to borrow will generally continue. If the market were to decide that the US would not be able to make good on it's debt then it would be shut out of the debt market.

The reason why we are unable to pay off our national debt now is because we are running a budget deficit (spending more money then the government is receiving in tax revenue), once the government starts to run a budget surplus (spending less money then receiving in tax revenue), then the national debt will be able to start to get paid off.

Are you sure that you are not just repeating government-sponsored tax myth? The government has many income streams...

You understand completely the national debt? Is that because you are an expert?

A complete government and (taken over by government) syndicated news media blackout has existed for over 60 years, DUE TO THE MONEY INVOLVED!

http://cafr1.com/GovernmentDebt.html

More about the media cover-up:
http://cafr1.com/knowthescore.html

I am not sure what you are talking about. The definition of a budget surplus is when more money is taken in via revenues (mainly taxes) then is spent via government expenditures. I did not say anything about how easy this would be.

Our debt could never be paid off in USD. The US Treasury borrows money from the federal reserve bank of New York and pays back an interest rate. Only way to pay back the interest is to borrow more money from the fed. It is a perpetual debt cycle, it can never, ever be paid off.

This is not true. If the government collects more in taxes then they spend in expenditures then the debt would be paid down. If this is done in high enough amounts then the debt would be paid off.

The fact that the treasury borrows some of the money from the federal reserve does not have anything to do with anything

This is technically correct, however the amount we have borrowed in the past 6 years is so much that it will take decades of big surpluses to pay off all of our national debt. The reality is that we have simply spent to much money while Obama has been in office.

bl4kjaguar

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Quote from: botany on September 14, 2014, 04:07:42 AM

Quote from: bl4kjaguar on September 13, 2014, 01:13:30 PM

"GROSS" INCOME of government is now 1/3rd "TAX" income and 2/3rds NON-TAX income derived from: return on INVESTMENTS and money generated from government Enterprise projects.
http://cafr1.com/

Are you talking about the US government?
I couldn't find the information in the link above...

Search for the first word, "Gross", and read through all of those sections.

Quote

In the USA the state truly owns everything, but through walls of well masked corporate veils created over the decades. (Scary point is: The US local and federal government is now run and maintained primarily by attorneys. Your elected officials, almost ALL attorneys)

gigEls

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Quote from: lihuajkl on August 29, 2014, 09:53:09 PM

The Fed will keep printing dollar to keep their balance sheet under controlled. The debt ceiling will be raised again and again. At least they can make the creditors believe they can pay back when due.

Maybe for now, but at some point creditors realize they are not going to get their money. Living above ones means isn't sustainable.

CryptoCarmen

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Quote from: Chompa on August 24, 2014, 04:04:43 AM

When will the USA pay their debts, if ever?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

I thought havening debts is American style of life.

botany

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Quote from: bl4kjaguar on September 13, 2014, 01:13:30 PM

"GROSS" INCOME of government is now 1/3rd "TAX" income and 2/3rds NON-TAX income derived from: return on INVESTMENTS and money generated from government Enterprise projects.
http://cafr1.com/

Are you talking about the US government?
I couldn't find the information in the link above...

bl4kjaguar

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

"GROSS" INCOME of government is now 1/3rd "TAX" income and 2/3rds NON-TAX income derived from: return on INVESTMENTS and money generated from government Enterprise projects.
http://cafr1.com/

More details on how government secretes your tax dollars:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040708041151/http://www.cafrman.com/

zorke

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Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: lyth0s on September 13, 2014, 01:50:07 AM

Quote from: itsAj on August 30, 2014, 11:10:54 PM

Quote from: bl4kjaguar on August 30, 2014, 10:11:47 PM

Quote from: itsAj on August 30, 2014, 09:46:48 PM

Quote from: lyth0s on August 29, 2014, 10:44:53 PM

Quote from: lihuajkl on August 29, 2014, 09:53:09 PM

The Fed will keep printing dollar to keep their balance sheet under controlled. The debt ceiling will be raised again and again. At least they can make the creditors believe they can pay back when due.

Exactly. Debt will always raise faster since we have to pay the federal reserve interest for every dollar printed. This means that we can never, ever pay off our national debt. If the debt ceiling is ever truly capped, then our economy collapses and becomes crushed under the debt (there will always be more debt than actual dollars). This is why the US credit rating is under fire every time there is even discussion about "not increasing the debt ceiling".

The debt ceiling is only capped by statue, as long as congress continues to raise the ceiling the US government's ability to borrow will generally continue. If the market were to decide that the US would not be able to make good on it's debt then it would be shut out of the debt market.

The reason why we are unable to pay off our national debt now is because we are running a budget deficit (spending more money then the government is receiving in tax revenue), once the government starts to run a budget surplus (spending less money then receiving in tax revenue), then the national debt will be able to start to get paid off.

Are you sure that you are not just repeating government-sponsored tax myth? The government has many income streams...

You understand completely the national debt? Is that because you are an expert?

A complete government and (taken over by government) syndicated news media blackout has existed for over 60 years, DUE TO THE MONEY INVOLVED!

http://cafr1.com/GovernmentDebt.html

More about the media cover-up:
http://cafr1.com/knowthescore.html

I am not sure what you are talking about. The definition of a budget surplus is when more money is taken in via revenues (mainly taxes) then is spent via government expenditures. I did not say anything about how easy this would be.

Our debt could never be paid off in USD. The US Treasury borrows money from the federal reserve bank of New York and pays back an interest rate. Only way to pay back the interest is to borrow more money from the fed. It is a perpetual debt cycle, it can never, ever be paid off.

This is not true. If the government collects more in taxes then they spend in expenditures then the debt would be paid down. If this is done in high enough amounts then the debt would be paid off.

The fact that the treasury borrows some of the money from the federal reserve does not have anything to do with anything

Topic: When will the USA pay their debts, if ever? - page 14. (Read 20979 times)