When will the USA pay their debts, if ever? - page 15.

lyth0s

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1000

World Class Cryptonaire

Quote from: itsAj on August 31, 2014, 12:10:54 AM

Quote from: bl4kjaguar on August 30, 2014, 11:11:47 PM

Quote from: itsAj on August 30, 2014, 10:46:48 PM

Quote from: lyth0s on August 29, 2014, 11:44:53 PM

Quote from: lihuajkl on August 29, 2014, 10:53:09 PM

The Fed will keep printing dollar to keep their balance sheet under controlled. The debt ceiling will be raised again and again. At least they can make the creditors believe they can pay back when due.

Exactly. Debt will always raise faster since we have to pay the federal reserve interest for every dollar printed. This means that we can never, ever pay off our national debt. If the debt ceiling is ever truly capped, then our economy collapses and becomes crushed under the debt (there will always be more debt than actual dollars). This is why the US credit rating is under fire every time there is even discussion about "not increasing the debt ceiling".

The debt ceiling is only capped by statue, as long as congress continues to raise the ceiling the US government's ability to borrow will generally continue. If the market were to decide that the US would not be able to make good on it's debt then it would be shut out of the debt market.

The reason why we are unable to pay off our national debt now is because we are running a budget deficit (spending more money then the government is receiving in tax revenue), once the government starts to run a budget surplus (spending less money then receiving in tax revenue), then the national debt will be able to start to get paid off.

Are you sure that you are not just repeating government-sponsored tax myth? The government has many income streams...

You understand completely the national debt? Is that because you are an expert?

A complete government and (taken over by government) syndicated news media blackout has existed for over 60 years, DUE TO THE MONEY INVOLVED!

http://cafr1.com/GovernmentDebt.html

More about the media cover-up:
http://cafr1.com/knowthescore.html

I am not sure what you are talking about. The definition of a budget surplus is when more money is taken in via revenues (mainly taxes) then is spent via government expenditures. I did not say anything about how easy this would be.

Our debt could never be paid off in USD. The US Treasury borrows money from the federal reserve bank of New York and pays back an interest rate. Only way to pay back the interest is to borrow more money from the fed. It is a perpetual debt cycle, it can never, ever be paid off.

bl4kjaguar

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

My point is that you can be spending MORE money than you receive in tax revenue, and still have a surplus.

Why?

Look at the CAFRs!

itsAj

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: bl4kjaguar on August 30, 2014, 11:11:47 PM

Quote from: itsAj on August 30, 2014, 10:46:48 PM

Quote from: lyth0s on August 29, 2014, 11:44:53 PM

Quote from: lihuajkl on August 29, 2014, 10:53:09 PM

The Fed will keep printing dollar to keep their balance sheet under controlled. The debt ceiling will be raised again and again. At least they can make the creditors believe they can pay back when due.

Exactly. Debt will always raise faster since we have to pay the federal reserve interest for every dollar printed. This means that we can never, ever pay off our national debt. If the debt ceiling is ever truly capped, then our economy collapses and becomes crushed under the debt (there will always be more debt than actual dollars). This is why the US credit rating is under fire every time there is even discussion about "not increasing the debt ceiling".

The debt ceiling is only capped by statue, as long as congress continues to raise the ceiling the US government's ability to borrow will generally continue. If the market were to decide that the US would not be able to make good on it's debt then it would be shut out of the debt market.

The reason why we are unable to pay off our national debt now is because we are running a budget deficit (spending more money then the government is receiving in tax revenue), once the government starts to run a budget surplus (spending less money then receiving in tax revenue), then the national debt will be able to start to get paid off.

Are you sure that you are not just repeating government-sponsored tax myth? The government has many income streams...

You understand completely the national debt? Is that because you are an expert?

A complete government and (taken over by government) syndicated news media blackout has existed for over 60 years, DUE TO THE MONEY INVOLVED!

http://cafr1.com/GovernmentDebt.html

More about the media cover-up:
http://cafr1.com/knowthescore.html

I am not sure what you are talking about. The definition of a budget surplus is when more money is taken in via revenues (mainly taxes) then is spent via government expenditures. I did not say anything about how easy this would be.

bl4kjaguar

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: itsAj on August 30, 2014, 10:46:48 PM

Quote from: lyth0s on August 29, 2014, 11:44:53 PM

Quote from: lihuajkl on August 29, 2014, 10:53:09 PM

The Fed will keep printing dollar to keep their balance sheet under controlled. The debt ceiling will be raised again and again. At least they can make the creditors believe they can pay back when due.

Exactly. Debt will always raise faster since we have to pay the federal reserve interest for every dollar printed. This means that we can never, ever pay off our national debt. If the debt ceiling is ever truly capped, then our economy collapses and becomes crushed under the debt (there will always be more debt than actual dollars). This is why the US credit rating is under fire every time there is even discussion about "not increasing the debt ceiling".

The debt ceiling is only capped by statue, as long as congress continues to raise the ceiling the US government's ability to borrow will generally continue. If the market were to decide that the US would not be able to make good on it's debt then it would be shut out of the debt market.

The reason why we are unable to pay off our national debt now is because we are running a budget deficit (spending more money then the government is receiving in tax revenue), once the government starts to run a budget surplus (spending less money then receiving in tax revenue), then the national debt will be able to start to get paid off.

Are you sure that you are not just repeating government-sponsored tax myth? The government has many income streams...

You understand completely the national debt? Is that because you are an expert?

A complete government and (taken over by government) syndicated news media blackout has existed for over 60 years, DUE TO THE MONEY INVOLVED!

http://cafr1.com/GovernmentDebt.html

More about the media cover-up:
http://cafr1.com/knowthescore.html

itsAj

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: lyth0s on August 29, 2014, 11:44:53 PM

Quote from: lihuajkl on August 29, 2014, 10:53:09 PM

The Fed will keep printing dollar to keep their balance sheet under controlled. The debt ceiling will be raised again and again. At least they can make the creditors believe they can pay back when due.

Exactly. Debt will always raise faster since we have to pay the federal reserve interest for every dollar printed. This means that we can never, ever pay off our national debt. If the debt ceiling is ever truly capped, then our economy collapses and becomes crushed under the debt (there will always be more debt than actual dollars). This is why the US credit rating is under fire every time there is even discussion about "not increasing the debt ceiling".

The debt ceiling is only capped by statue, as long as congress continues to raise the ceiling the US government's ability to borrow will generally continue. If the market were to decide that the US would not be able to make good on it's debt then it would be shut out of the debt market.

The reason why we are unable to pay off our national debt now is because we are running a budget deficit (spending more money then the government is receiving in tax revenue), once the government starts to run a budget surplus (spending less money then receiving in tax revenue), then the national debt will be able to start to get paid off.

lyth0s

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1000

World Class Cryptonaire

Quote from: lihuajkl on August 29, 2014, 10:53:09 PM

The Fed will keep printing dollar to keep their balance sheet under controlled. The debt ceiling will be raised again and again. At least they can make the creditors believe they can pay back when due.

Exactly. Debt will always raise faster since we have to pay the federal reserve interest for every dollar printed. This means that we can never, ever pay off our national debt. If the debt ceiling is ever truly capped, then our economy collapses and becomes crushed under the debt (there will always be more debt than actual dollars). This is why the US credit rating is under fire every time there is even discussion about "not increasing the debt ceiling".

itsAj

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: botany on August 29, 2014, 10:06:25 PM

Quote from: giveBTCpls on August 29, 2014, 01:04:54 PM

There are 2 ways:

-You stop printing money magically and refuse to pay the debt = you get fucked (argentina)
-You keep playing the printing money game and pray to god shit doesnt crash = (USA)

There is a difference between Argentina and the USA.
The USA borrows in USD and can print USD.
Argentina borrows in USD and can print only Peso.

This is a very good point. The fact that Argentina has a reputation of defaulting on their loans (scamming their debtholders) they have had difficulty lending money in anything other then dollars and that is disputed anywhere else then in US courts. This fact is going to prevent Argentina from borrowing on terms favorable to them (borrowing on terms that makes it easy for them to scam).

lihuajkl

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1000

The Fed will keep printing dollar to keep their balance sheet under controlled. The debt ceiling will be raised again and again. At least they can make the creditors believe they can pay back when due.

knight22

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1000

--------------->¿?

Quote from: botany on August 29, 2014, 10:06:25 PM

Quote from: giveBTCpls on August 29, 2014, 01:04:54 PM

There are 2 ways:

-You stop printing money magically and refuse to pay the debt = you get fucked (argentina)
-You keep playing the printing money game and pray to god shit doesnt crash = (USA)

There is a difference between Argentina and the USA.
The USA borrows in USD and can print USD.
Argentina borrows in USD and can print only Peso.

Exact. Also the USD is exclusively printed out of debts and this is NOT an unbreakable natural law. Nothing stop the government to print money with no debt liabilities which would solve this situation overnight. Problem is, the government is the FED's puppet. American democracy died in 1913.

botany

legendary

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1064

Quote from: giveBTCpls on August 29, 2014, 01:04:54 PM

There are 2 ways:

-You stop printing money magically and refuse to pay the debt = you get fucked (argentina)
-You keep playing the printing money game and pray to god shit doesnt crash = (USA)

There is a difference between Argentina and the USA.
The USA borrows in USD and can print USD.
Argentina borrows in USD and can print only Peso.

Swordsoffreedom

legendary

Activity: 2884

Merit: 1115

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: giveBTCpls on August 29, 2014, 01:04:54 PM

There are 2 ways:

-You stop printing money magically and refuse to pay the debt = you get fucked (argentina)
-You keep playing the printing money game and pray to god shit doesnt crash = (USA)

Yep, that summed up my points more or less in not so many words.
Either keep trying and get your country to scale, then keep playing that game till it crashes or default start fresh and hopefully get a fresh start without all the entanglements.

moko666

hero member

Activity: 635

Merit: 500

BlasterKVs the king of xbox modding

print more money and pay debts
thats what Fed want to do

means they don't want to pay their debt

wasserman99

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 28, 2014, 01:03:20 AM

I'd love to see government buildings and property liquidated to pay back debts and our unelected officials sent to foreign countries to violate human rights over there instead of here. No country should accept USD for debt service anymore.

Countries prefer to receive US dollars above other currencies when receiving debt repayments because it is so heavily traded and accepted almost anywhere throughout the world.

giveBTCpls

sr. member

Activity: 322

Merit: 250

There are 2 ways:

-You stop printing money magically and refuse to pay the debt = you get fucked (argentina)
-You keep playing the printing money game and pray to god shit doesnt crash = (USA)

arbitrage001

legendary

Activity: 1067

Merit: 1000

Quote from: botany on August 29, 2014, 04:57:02 AM

Quote from: miketonic on August 29, 2014, 04:06:41 AM

I don't think it's possible. Maybe default or hyperinflation will take care of it.

You don't really have to take care of it. Just keep rolling over the debt in perpetuity and make sure that it doesn't balloon into something unmanageable. As long as the interest is serviced, the debt holders might not have an issue. The problem comes when the US won't be able to refinance this debt, but that is highly unlikely.

If the debtor nation refuse to raise interest rate, inflation will be rampant. Debt will continue to pile up and capital will leave the country.

If the debtor nation raise interest rate, that will create budget problems at the federal and state level.

The interest paid to China alone can fund their entire military budget for the year. Anyone else see the seriousness in this?

Ibian

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1278

Quote from: botany on August 29, 2014, 04:57:02 AM

Quote from: miketonic on August 29, 2014, 04:06:41 AM

I don't think it's possible. Maybe default or hyperinflation will take care of it.

You don't really have to take care of it. Just keep rolling over the debt in perpetuity and make sure that it doesn't balloon into something unmanageable. As long as the interest is serviced, the debt holders might not have an issue. The problem comes when the US won't be able to refinance this debt, but that is highly unlikely.

Way past that point. It's already impossible to pay the interest.

Ibian

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1278

Quote from: botany on August 29, 2014, 03:14:02 AM

Quote from: Hustle2survive on August 28, 2014, 01:32:29 PM

It cant be done, get ready for bailouts Roll Eyes

The question is about the government. Who will bail out the government? Cheesy

You will. And you don't get a choice about it.

botany

legendary

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1064

Quote from: miketonic on August 29, 2014, 04:06:41 AM

I don't think it's possible. Maybe default or hyperinflation will take care of it.

You don't really have to take care of it. Just keep rolling over the debt in perpetuity and make sure that it doesn't balloon into something unmanageable. As long as the interest is serviced, the debt holders might not have an issue. The problem comes when the US won't be able to refinance this debt, but that is highly unlikely.

miketonic

full member

Activity: 185

Merit: 100

I don't think it's possible. Maybe default or hyperinflation will take care of it.

botany

legendary

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1064

Quote from: Hustle2survive on August 28, 2014, 01:32:29 PM

It cant be done, get ready for bailouts Roll Eyes

The question is about the government. Who will bail out the government? Cheesy

Topic: When will the USA pay their debts, if ever? - page 15. (Read 20962 times)