Topic: Who is really controlling the Bitcoin market. - page 5. (Read 2351 times)

Bitcoin's price may be driven by price and demand, but the market is still controlled by big exchanges and whales. Only proper regulations will put an end to this for good. I'd suggest you take advantage of this situation in order to make as much profits as possible. With heavy manipulation by exchanges and whales, prices can fluctuate like crazy, giving you the opportunity to buy low and sell high for profit. The gains are better than it's the case with the stock market, but the risk of loss is high.

Once the crypto market is regulated, Bitcoin's price may stabilize. Only then, it'll be much more difficult to make profits within the short term. What matters is that Bitcoin remains decentralized at its core. As long as that is the case, it won't be going anywhere. It's been like that for nearly 13 years now, so it's probable it'll last for generations. Just my thoughts

a billionaire who has many followers, of course, when he says something, others will follow him. without the need to spend a lot of money can already manipulate the bitcoin market, it is only enough to make 1 tweet about bitcoin then bitcoin will go up in price.
but no one really completely controls the bitcoin market.

there is each question stranger than the other every day in this section. why talk about bitcoin market manipulation when we already have a big money market? OP I had already posted here but forgot to add that there was a billionaire who makes cars who managed to manipulate the market, but he managed to manipulate the market without him having spent a lot and a lot of money, he just talked about his company accepting bitcoin as a method of payments that later people rushed to buy bitcoin

The market cap of Bitcoin is too large now, and we have passed that level of talking about manipulators. If it is an altcoin that is still starting up, you can talk about possibilities of the price likely to be manipulated, but that is no longer for Bitcoin.

Manipulating Bitcoin is near impossible, the market is now solely based on the level of supply and demand. So, we should be talking about how much of a demand we’re having this year, if there’s going to be much demand, then the market would definitely be going up, and if the demand would be less, then it is going to be downtrend. Another thing is that events that we would trigger such things to happen.

And if you check most of these price manipulators or should I say pump and dump groups, they are now focusing mainly on alternative cryptocurrencies. Because they know it is not going to work out if they should try it on Bitcoin.

right, there is no control in the formation of bitcoin prices, if in the past whales were able to move prices temporarily, but now with the spread of bitcoin holders of course need a lot of funds to be able to move the market. Of course, with a trend, traders will follow the direction of the trend and if the trend is bearish, more will sell it. then from that the longer the fluctuation will be smaller

One thing i can say for sure as far as crypto is concerned prediction of so called experts is extremely bad no it is beyond extremely bad.

listing your points better as you said more in the description of your experiences
1. you said you thought bitcoins "intrinsic value" was based on hoarding.. um no.
golds intrinsic value is not on hoarding for speculated price. bitcoins price/value is not set by markets evaluating users that have no market deposits. the market price is set by those wanting to sell.

so its not based on hoarders, but instead the acquisition cost people refuse to sell below.
EG if it cost everyone just $2 to mine an ounce of gold. golds value would be $2 bottom. and the market speculative price would be $2-$5.
but gold mining costs over $900. which is why gold markets speculate at $900-$2000
its not the case that it cost $2 and everyone hoarding it for 15,000x profit. its actually where they just refuse to sell at a loss. and where their acquisition costs are higher than the previous person.

bitcoins value is the mining cost. which was $20k in 2021 and $30k in 2022. this is the cheapest cost on the planet to mine coins so no one wants to sell for less. and those with higher mining costs
(US $40k) are happy to buy at $30k-$40k rather then mine for more.
(japan $70k) are happy to buy at $30k-$70k rather then mine for more.
 which is where the speculative difference of the $30k bottom to $70k top is. the $70k top was maxed out because everyone on the planet could mine for less than $71k so no one valued bitcoin to be worth buying for more then $70k at the time.. mining costs increase. coins change hands all add up to an increase in the bottomline value slowly over time

2. government hindrances
yes the conversion to fiat is a pain. because fiat banks have rules and limits. but you are not forced to convert it to fiat just to hand it down to your kids.
yes some governments have advised banks to be extra cautious with large funds coming from known bitcoin exchanges. but the sentiment of 'evil' was strong in 2014 and has actually started to relax in 2022
the UK for instance closed peoples bank accounts in 2014 but now they just treat it as a normal money transfer where they only question the amount. and not auto-evil a transaction due to its known bitcoin source.
i think some of the banking problems you experienced were not bitcoin direct linked. but more so large amount and also from a chillian bank to a brazilian bank causing some flags/questions.
you might have had a better experience using a brazilian based exchange that pays out in brazilian real

3. bitcoin utility(you might confuse with intrinsic value)
bitcoins utility value is to make transactions that dont need banks. so if you have 14btc. and you want to hand it to your kids. you can do so in the privacy of your home without reporting to a bank why you are shifting $490k of value. your kids can hoard it without being penalised by inheritance tax the moment they get a confirm. they can take it to another country and buy a house on some exotic island without your native bank/ tax office monitoring $ movements

4.market liquidity.
yes its clear markets do things like 'ghost orders' where they fill the market order books with lots of orders and just cancel them before the order is hit if they dont want the price to go in that direction. yes exchange owners also arbitrage using stable coins from one exchange to another to take the advantage of different market prices which then brings both exchanges into balance with each other(before letting the customers take the advantage)
and yes although you see lots of pending orders and lots of filled orders. some.. not all but some are done without having their account balance backed by deposits. which is illegal. and that needs to be regulated for consumer protection (avoid another 'gox')

5. mining 'climate' 'wastage'
if everyone was GPU mining. the electric usage per reward would be massively higher. asics have made mining more energy efficient. as have using pools. and asic farms located in renewable energy regions.
when you read propaganda media saying chinese mining is only 15% clean. thats not based on any analysis of visiting an asic farm and sourcing which power plant its attached to. instead its just generalising china's national renewable number and saying that asic farms must be mixed with all type. its very lazy reporting.
lets take america. its mining is only about 14twh a year. and yet within the decade america wants to be majority Electric car transport system. but that requires 1050twh a year to have all us cars electric.
yep cars use 75x more energy then Us bitcoin . and right now 98% of all cars are fossil fuelled. where as bitcoin mining is only 15% fossil fuelled.
so if you want to pick a climate debate. look at the car industry

bitcoins hashrate has been lingering around an average 150ex for years. +/- 0.3x . yet the car industry needs to grow by 50-75x in under 10 years.

 It's not control, it's just a trend.. when the majority of market movements are made by "traders", that's what it leads to.
When you know that there are "professional traders" whose job is to profit from trading, and when they get wind of something called "cryptocurrencies".. I'll let you guess the rest of the story

Bitcoin is decentralised crypto. I think bitcoin will not control by the people. Decentralization will never be stable. It is always pump and dupm.Bitcoin price down right now and i think It's good time to buy and hold long time bitcoin. Bitcoin is most popular coin in crypto market. I think small investor makes short term investment Beside market.I think holders and big investors makes good market.

Bitcoin is really controlled by China. There are four miners in China that control over 50% in bitcoin.

We know that Bitcoin is a decentralized crypto but sometimes it may be manipulated. We, general people are not able to do that without strong community. Influencers are playing vital role there and making good benefits of it. If I mention other factor and this will be bad news from any raptured country where Bitcoin is available.

who actually controls bitcoin, in my personal opinion I think the people who control bitcoin are rich people, millionaires, or what is commonly called billionaires, because in the past when Elon Musk posted negative things about bitcoin, the price of bitcoin fell, and at that time Tesla stopped accepting payments with bitcoin, the price of bitcoin fell again, maybe the market could also control bitcoin, but I personally think that the one who is at the forefront of controlling bitcoin is the greedy rich.

As you said it's totally impossible to predict the Bitcoin market but on the other hand we could use the chart strategy to prediction of the market is somehow possible and about the controlling I think big exchanges and whales has the full control on the btc

When the market is regulated by the government then you can see how fiat travel provides inflation that continues to rise from year to year.  This is one of the reasons the crypto-based digital currency was created to create its own market independent of government intervention.  However, with a free market, those who have the greatest assets are those who have the greatest assets, such as the capitalist system.  Whoever has the capital then he is the king.  Price manipulation is only one of the impacts, not the main target.

at least you know what you are talking here?

Bitcoin can be controlled by those who has too much bitcoin in their position , like for example whales? they are capable of doing such because their holding can move the price a little and with many whales combined their assets? then surely this will control bitcoin for a certain time.

and this is what they do when they wanna dump or pump the prices of market .

Yes, manipulation still exist in the cryptocurrency market, but in Bitcoin I don’t think it is as much as it used to be before. It has reduced and now it is altcoins that are mainly the target of price manipulators. I know that there are billionaires that have enough money to kind of manipulate the market to the direction they want, they can push it up by setting a buy option, and they can as well put a sell option to make the market to fall.

But, it wouldn’t be as much as it used to be, because now the market is stronger than it was before. But manipulation is usually being found everywhere, there will always be people who are attempting to manipulate things in favor of themselves whenever possible.

How can people control bitcoin while bitcoin was created by satoshi nakamoto for free even the one who created bitcoin satoshi doesn't regulate bitcoin especially those who only hold bitcoin of course can't control bitcoin.

But we couldnt really avoid the fact that whales/institutions/government could really have that significant impact whenever they do made out some moves.Lets put up an example on what happened recently about on the fundamentals on which Russia tends out to ban crypto? It did really make out the market dip down or corrected on big percentage and on the time they are somewhat
taking back those words then the market tends to recover which we arent that dumb to say that they had already placed up theirselves thats why its really possible that they would
 really be hyping things up again. Manipulative? Some sort of but theres always some chance.

Apart from all said:

I think, and I have some clues, that the volumes of all sites that trade BTC is heavily overstated.
https://medium.com/dirt-protocol/how-much-are-cryptocurrency-volumes-overstated-7a80873ffe69
by as much as 95%.
So only 5% is real volume.. the rest is fake, the sites trading inside themselves to get higher ratings.
This gives a reply to the people asking.. who is controlling this market.. It is much easier to influence a market with low liquidity... Which I think is the case with Crypto. .... this is not surprising.. it is also true with lots of other markets.. where the players all try to have an advantage.

I recently (on 3 of Dezember) sold 13 BTC on Kraken at 51.000 to the CHF, which is around 54.000 USD. I sold it OTC on WhatsApp.. not wanting to put this sum up fearing a meltdown.
In the next three hours the price dropped some 5%.. in my opinion.. because Kraken tried to sell these.. They say my sell had nothing to do with it.. but.. hmm.
Then.. they took 4 days to credit me with the money.. saying the CHF is to illiquid to have it at hand.. but hey.. If they really had this daily volume... they should have been able to liquidate my trade within hours.
But these are mere speculations.
I sold my BTC, I am a HODL since 2014, because I think that there are risks involved in the HODL arguments, that BTC (and other crypto) has such an intrinsic value, because its quantity is restricted etc.
I think that the legacy banking sector is forming against Crypto... I tried with my Brazilian Bank to bring the USD 800.000 to Brazil and got told (by ITAU).. legal, not legal.. on your Tax report, not on your tax report.. we do not take the money.. you CANNOT get this money into your account.. therefore seriously hampering the USE of BTC. I used the proceeds to buy a house.
I managed to find another Brazilian Bank, which would take the proceeds, that came from KRAKEN.. after a while.. but it took me in all two weeks of work and lots of grey hair. It is only an example of how the legacy banking sector is succeeding in hampering the usefulness of crypto.. after all.. in the end you want to exchange it for something real.. a house, a car, food, expenses... whatever..
Then there is this environmental problem with the Hashrate being so energy expensive.. I know.. that people argue that it all is from green, superfluous energy bla bla.. but. hey.. In the end..I think.. unless we make sure that all mining is with Geodesic or Cold fusion :-) .. probably it is made in some country with Coal..
So.. I at least have considerably lowered my BTC Holding.. fortunately 1 hour before one of the biggest price corrections (3 December to today 51.000 to 30.000 USD price correction).
Then there is all theses post with Chart Analysis, which has proven inefficient over and over and over again in stock trading.. Do not get me started on the usefulness of this.. but hey..I you think 30.000 is a CLEAR threshold.. just because you manage to draw a blue line in a nice slope.. you probably also believe that the position of Venus and Mars explains you last job application in any way...

I am still holding half of my BTC..because hey.. I bought it TOTALLY speculative and horsed around with it, never even considering it real money but only plastic chips in a casino. I invested in Bankrolls.. gained lots (tripled the amount) during 2016-2017, then invested in some black sheep.. ( lost 75% because the stole the bankroll).. did lots of other bullshit.. gave away whole BTC to nephews just to get them interested..
But now.. that is has become a big part of my savings.. .. My third point..
Being your own bank.. Really difficult.. I am a very savvy person, when it comes to computers, IT, etc..
But whenever I plug in my Ledger.. it asks me to upgrade the firmware. The other day I found out how to test my Mnemonic Phrase.. and.. I had one error in it..
Whenever I try to make a transfer.. it asks me. "do you want to upgrade your BTC to SEGWIT or SEGWIT2.. or whatever".. If you send to the wrong address you loose everything.. Anyway.. Only 1% of world population have the guts to listen to hours and hours of Youtube Talks explaining of how to maintain your wallet.. have secure computers.. have a scheme in place if they die, so their heirs have knowledge to get to the BTC. Not at all consumer friendly.. only for geeks..

So.. these 3 points: Energy, doubtful markets, legacy Banking system and Governments putting up hindrances, not user-friendly .. Actually 4 points..I think.. will reduce the usefulness and success of crypto in the future.
And.. markets that are not really liquid and understood and even less regulated.. 5 points.

Do not understand me wrong.. I still have half of my BTC, ETH, XPR holdings.. but I am sitting in my new House on the beach and happy I bought something.. even if I die.. that my kids can enjoy.. exchange for money/food/stocks.. or crypto again.. hehe.

Bitcoin which has peer-to-peer technology, of course, makes it impossible for anyone to control either big intuition, central banks and even the state cannot control bitcoin in the market, indeed we can all be part of bitcoin ownership but to control bitcoin is a very difficult thing impossible to do and the difficulty in controlling bitcoin is the reason for many countries in the world that prohibit the circulation of bitcoin so far. While the price of bitcoin in the market is expensive or not, it all depends on the number of supply and demand transactions that have occurred in the market so far.