Pages:
Author

Topic: Who is to be blamed, the gambler or the betting agent - page 5. (Read 1947 times)

hero member
Activity: 3010
Merit: 794
~snip~
Yes because for gamblers, it is take the risk and have the chance to some profit and if you are not taking the risk then you are not preventing anything. You are only preventing something by avoiding it and that is the reason I have said it is not for a gambler to prevent it, be it the risk or something else. If you are a gambler and you have come to gamble, all you have to do is to gamble as you can bear and in order words you are gambling anyway and you are not preventing it only to reduce your risk.
If you don't reduce the risk, you will only see the risk of losing money getting bigger, and if that happens, you should immediately stop gambling and rest. It's not good to continue gambling because we can lose even more, especially if we deposit more money into the gambling account. It will only make us want to recover our losses even though we know that it will not guarantee that we can recover losses but provide other losses. Here it is better for us to prevent that loss than get other losses so we will not lose much money.
Getting used to trying to plan funds for gambling once a week or twice a week will be much better because if they are used to it they will master self-control and have better financial management not to think too much about gambling and gamble only to seek luck when they have more money.
In this case, someone is often forced to continue gambling to catch their losses until they have to borrow money with the thought that they will make money after that to cover previous losses.
Such thinking clearly very bad and it is clear that they themselves are at fault because gambling only provides a place to gamble and have fun but someone thinks is a place to multiply money is clear that it their own fault.
On the time that you do able to reach out this point on which you are already that considering on taking up some loan just for the sake on playing even more or tending to chase up those losses on which its never been ideal on doing so.This is why it would really be just that right that you should really be that mindful about those probabilities that you might mess up your financial status or situation if you cant be able to control or moderate yourself on playing further. Gambling isnt really bad but everything should really be in moderation because on the time that you wont really be making yourself able to control about your gambling urges
then it would really be resulting into those negative things that could happen.

On the situation stated up in between an agent and a gambler, then they are both that made out agreements on which its neither they would really be making out such big loan amount or would really be
just sufficient on the amount that he do able to make on everyday on which it is really just that right that the agent gave out that kind of offering or let him borrow on an amount
on which he's capable on paying it off basing on his daily salary or pay then it would really be just not a problem.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1951
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
If it is wrong for the owner to give the loan then the borrower is more guilty. Since the owner operates a casino or gambling business, he can certainly provide loans to grow his business. On the other hand, the person taking the loan should also be aware of whether he can repay the loan amount or not. When providing loans, sometimes such situations have to be accepted. It would have been better if the financial condition of the borrower could have been well known before giving the loan, then it would have been possible to prevent such a situation.

This is far from a fact. In most countries, gambling and lending are completely different areas of activity that are regulated in different ways and you must obtain different licenses to carry out these activities. That is why the chances of the casino through the court to demand money from this gambler are very low - they did not have the right to issue him a loan (this is my proposal, but I think it will be true for 95% of countries).
sr. member
Activity: 1078
Merit: 342
Sinbad Mixer: Mix Your BTC Quickly
Agreed, quitting is not an easy thing. Whether it is gambling or something else. The owner shouldn't have given money, just because he gave money the victim continued spending. If not, he could've left with what he had lost from his pocket. The trouble maker is the casino owner who knows well about the reality of gambling that it is not easy to recover the losses.
I agree but the gambler is also not thinking wisely by doing that, hence they are mistaken as well. Why would someone take loans and use them for gambling in the first place? That shouldn't be how it works. Nevertheless, the betting agent should not provide money to the gambler as it can lead to a really bad consequences as it has happened before. The gambler might find themselves in an extremely difficult situation where they can't even recover the money.
hero member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 504
~snip~
Yes because for gamblers, it is take the risk and have the chance to some profit and if you are not taking the risk then you are not preventing anything. You are only preventing something by avoiding it and that is the reason I have said it is not for a gambler to prevent it, be it the risk or something else. If you are a gambler and you have come to gamble, all you have to do is to gamble as you can bear and in order words you are gambling anyway and you are not preventing it only to reduce your risk.
If you don't reduce the risk, you will only see the risk of losing money getting bigger, and if that happens, you should immediately stop gambling and rest. It's not good to continue gambling because we can lose even more, especially if we deposit more money into the gambling account. It will only make us want to recover our losses even though we know that it will not guarantee that we can recover losses but provide other losses. Here it is better for us to prevent that loss than get other losses so we will not lose much money.
Getting used to trying to plan funds for gambling once a week or twice a week will be much better because if they are used to it they will master self-control and have better financial management not to think too much about gambling and gamble only to seek luck when they have more money.
In this case, someone is often forced to continue gambling to catch their losses until they have to borrow money with the thought that they will make money after that to cover previous losses.
Such thinking clearly very bad and it is clear that they themselves are at fault because gambling only provides a place to gamble and have fun but someone thinks is a place to multiply money is clear that it their own fault.
hero member
Activity: 1652
Merit: 518
OrangeFren.com
If you don't reduce the risk, you will only see the risk of losing money getting bigger, and if that happens, you should immediately stop gambling and rest. It's not good to continue gambling because we can lose even more, especially if we deposit more money into the gambling account. It will only make us want to recover our losses even though we know that it will not guarantee that we can recover losses but provide other losses. Here it is better for us to prevent that loss than get other losses so we will not lose much money.

Risk is the common one in the gambling,people are not ready to handle the risk of losing money.But it's essential one to hold the money and use in the gambling after learning of gambling,if you just do gambling without the knowledge it leads to complete loss.So find the legit gambling site before using the gambling was the important one.

If it is wrong for the owner to give the loan then the borrower is more guilty. Since the owner operates a casino or gambling business, he can certainly provide loans to grow his business. On the other hand, the person taking the loan should also be aware of whether he can repay the loan amount or not. When providing loans, sometimes such situations have to be accepted. It would have been better if the financial condition of the borrower could have been well known before giving the loan, then it would have been possible to prevent such a situation.

Giving loan is not a wrong one by the gambling owner,because they had a money to rotation from his business.Most of the business need of huge money for the rotation,So the gambling owner lend the money for the business is not the problem.Only thing is he should not scam their participants winnings.He should not get scammed by lending and scam the people winning money.This is most important one to keep in mind before doing the lending.
hero member
Activity: 2912
Merit: 556
Enterapp Pre-Sale Live - bit.ly/3UrMCWI
~snip~
Yes because for gamblers, it is take the risk and have the chance to some profit and if you are not taking the risk then you are not preventing anything. You are only preventing something by avoiding it and that is the reason I have said it is not for a gambler to prevent it, be it the risk or something else. If you are a gambler and you have come to gamble, all you have to do is to gamble as you can bear and in order words you are gambling anyway and you are not preventing it only to reduce your risk.
If you don't reduce the risk, you will only see the risk of losing money getting bigger, and if that happens, you should immediately stop gambling and rest. It's not good to continue gambling because we can lose even more, especially if we deposit more money into the gambling account. It will only make us want to recover our losses even though we know that it will not guarantee that we can recover losses but provide other losses. Here it is better for us to prevent that loss than get other losses so we will not lose much money.
sr. member
Activity: 2436
Merit: 455

If it is wrong for the owner to give the loan then the borrower is more guilty. Since the owner operates a casino or gambling business, he can certainly provide loans to grow his business. On the other hand, the person taking the loan should also be aware of whether he can repay the loan amount or not. When providing loans, sometimes such situations have to be accepted. It would have been better if the financial condition of the borrower could have been well known before giving the loan, then it would have been possible to prevent such a situation.

Both of them have fair shares of wrong in this scenario. The owner shouldn't have provided a loan in the first place if there's really no existing feature of such in his casino. Additionally, someone shouldn't be granted with one without knowing the financial capacity to pay of the borrower. In this case, he was not on his guard and do not expect bad things from happening. You can say that he trusted the gambler to pay, however, it became a trouble to him.

Meanwhile, the gambler has his wrongs too. He shouldn't have borrowed if he knew he can't pay. It is the debtor's responsibility to pay his dues, and he must know that already to avoid inconveniencing others and himself as well because of the additional interest generated from the debt as time passes by. But he insisted to take a loan and didn't bothered to pay at all. It's such a shame that there are people who are like this.

Hopefully, there will be no cases such as this in the future and the players and casino owners will learn from here already. Because money matters should be taken seriously and responsibly.
sr. member
Activity: 938
Merit: 292
online casinos will never provide loan facilities to their customers because that will be very risky because so many customers come from countries that prohibit gambling, so even if they provide credit card guarantees or KYC it is very risky for online casinos.

Even though the online casino has the KYC of the users, yet it is very easy for scammers to create an account, do the KYC, and apply for a loan.
Some can say that casinos can safeguard the return of the loans by not allowing the withdrawal until the loan is cleared. How about anyone getting the loan, losing all in the gambling, and quitting the site forever without returning the loan?

it's different from land-based casinos, in that the country or city certainly allows the gambling business, so it's only natural that land-based casinos provide loans to their customers. and I'm not sure if gamblers would avoid the casino if offered a betting loan because we know that not all gamblers are sane minds but many gamblers will accept such an offer.

In physical casinos, it is easier to recover the loans, but it is worth it for the gambling casino to give the loan service and face all these hassles from the gamblers not returning or delaying the return of loans, as they will usually lose all the loan money in the gambling.
It is a debatable situation, why the casino agent has such an opportunity to give loans to gamblers on a physical gambling place.
If he loans, it means management and awareness of gambling problems are not the case there.
Quitting has never been easy, so it is understandable why the "victim" will continue to play even if someone pays his loan back, IMHO.
Agreed, quitting is not an easy thing. Whether it is gambling or something else. The owner shouldn't have given money, just because he gave money the victim continued spending. If not, he could've left with what he had lost from his pocket. The trouble maker is the casino owner who knows well about the reality of gambling that it is not easy to recover the losses.
If it is wrong for the owner to give the loan then the borrower is more guilty. Since the owner operates a casino or gambling business, he can certainly provide loans to grow his business. On the other hand, the person taking the loan should also be aware of whether he can repay the loan amount or not. When providing loans, sometimes such situations have to be accepted. It would have been better if the financial condition of the borrower could have been well known before giving the loan, then it would have been possible to prevent such a situation.
hero member
Activity: 2660
Merit: 630
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
As they say, prevention is better than cure.
This is not for gambling. For gambling, usually what you are seeing is the winning. Taking of risk is what gambling is, if you are not a risk taker then maybe gambling is not for you and maybe that is the sense that prevention can be apt but as a gambling then you are only heading for the winning. Most gamblers don't see limitation to what they want to bet until they are finished with it and the result is out to their favour or not. There are no prevention if you are a gambler, it is only those who don't gamble will run away after losing.
What @Gozie51 said is true because when someone gambles, he can afford to risk losing, and actually, he already knows that his chances of winning might not be too great. But because he took that risk, he still gambled, and gamblers just want to bet so they don't see the rest. So they think what will happen next is something they can think about later after gambling. And if they don't dare to take the risk of losing, they should stop gambling and relax at home, enjoying the atmosphere. Thus, they don't have to think about the risks of gambling or other things.

Yes because for gamblers, it is take the risk and have the chance to some profit and if you are not taking the risk then you are not preventing anything. You are only preventing something by avoiding it and that is the reason I have said it is not for a gambler to prevent it, be it the risk or something else. If you are a gambler and you have come to gamble, all you have to do is to gamble as you can bear and in order words you are gambling anyway and you are not preventing it only to reduce your risk.
hero member
Activity: 2912
Merit: 556
Enterapp Pre-Sale Live - bit.ly/3UrMCWI
As they say, prevention is better than cure.
This is not for gambling. For gambling, usually what you are seeing is the winning. Taking of risk is what gambling is, if you are not a risk taker then maybe gambling is not for you and maybe that is the sense that prevention can be apt but as a gambling then you are only heading for the winning. Most gamblers don't see limitation to what they want to bet until they are finished with it and the result is out to their favour or not. There are no prevention if you are a gambler, it is only those who don't gamble will run away after losing.
What @Gozie51 said is true because when someone gambles, he can afford to risk losing, and actually, he already knows that his chances of winning might not be too great. But because he took that risk, he still gambled, and gamblers just want to bet so they don't see the rest. So they think what will happen next is something they can think about later after gambling. And if they don't dare to take the risk of losing, they should stop gambling and relax at home, enjoying the atmosphere. Thus, they don't have to think about the risks of gambling or other things.
hero member
Activity: 1106
Merit: 570
A situation occurred today in my locality,  I have some guys working for me today and suddenly I hard them battling with an issues and when I get close to them to know what exactly the problem is,  and I asked the guy who look strange to me since I am meeting him for the first time and not a worker on the site what his business and why he is distracting the workers from work.

Then the guy narrated his case to be and he said,  that one of the workers came to his betting shop the yesterday to play some visual,  that at first the guy came with ₦‎1,000 in my local currency to make the bets and along the line, he existed the balance but as a regular customer,  the agent decided to allow him at further on credits and in all he accumulated a total debt of ₦‎8,000 because he lost all the bets and since that yesterday he has been on the run from the gambling agent until he traced him to the site today.

So when I wanted to judge the case and possible settlement,  I query the casino agent how can you allow a customer to gamble on credit to the tune of 8k Knowing fully well that the gambler only has a 1k balance which already existed?

Also what is the probability that the gambler will ever return after owning such debt in the betting shops,  note the gambler's daily pay is 2k as a helper on the site,  so he has to work for 4 days to be able to meet that debt that is if he doesn't make any other expenses.

Question is:

What is the possibility of the betting agent getting his money soon/considering the gambler's low-income earnings?
  They're both a fault but I'll blame the betting agent mostly for going against his employers policy and doing something that would make him lose his job, there's a saying that there's no friend in business, talk more of joking with a business that's not yours,  it's very wrong or would I say that's so foolish to him and he's lucky his employer was not aware of such a careless act, what I expected from the betting agent is for him to request for a collateral like depositing his valuable item before betting for free, but then he didn't do that neither did he ask for the address or details of the gambler nor ask for his field of occupation to know if he'll be capable of paying his debt, it's very wrong and his actions would had cost him his job.
 The best thing I think they should do is to invlove higher authorities that's would make him sign an agreement concerning when he'll be able to clear his debt or bargain with the site manager to make sure he not the 2k daily pay he receives until the debt is cleared
hero member
Activity: 2660
Merit: 630
Vave.com - Crypto Casino

As they say, prevention is better than cure.

This is not for gambling. For gambling, usually what you are seeing is the winning. Taking of risk is what gambling is, if you are not a risk taker then maybe gambling is not for you and maybe that is the sense that prevention can be apt but as a gambling then you are only heading for the winning. Most gamblers don't see limitation to what they want to bet until they are finished with it and the result is out to their favour or not. There are no prevention if you are a gambler, it is only those who don't gamble will run away after losing.
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 1192
A situation occurred today in my locality,  I have some guys working for me today and suddenly I hard them battling with an issues and when I get close to them to know what exactly the problem is,  and I asked the guy who look strange to me since I am meeting him for the first time and not a worker on the site what his business and why he is distracting the workers from work.

Then the guy narrated his case to be and he said,  that one of the workers came to his betting shop the yesterday to play some visual,  that at first the guy came with ₦‎1,000 in my local currency to make the bets and along the line, he existed the balance but as a regular customer,  the agent decided to allow him at further on credits and in all he accumulated a total debt of ₦‎8,000 because he lost all the bets and since that yesterday he has been on the run from the gambling agent until he traced him to the site today.

So when I wanted to judge the case and possible settlement,  I query the casino agent how can you allow a customer to gamble on credit to the tune of 8k Knowing fully well that the gambler only has a 1k balance which already existed?

Also what is the probability that the gambler will ever return after owning such debt in the betting shops,  note the gambler's daily pay is 2k as a helper on the site,  so he has to work for 4 days to be able to meet that debt that is if he doesn't make any other expenses.

Question is:

What is the possibility of the betting agent getting his money soon/considering the gambler's low-income earnings?

There is a very fine line to walk, but gambling institutions should not be in the business of giving out lines of credit. They should only allow you to play with funds from elsewhere, otherwise it creates a huge conflict of interest and it can drive customers into terrible debt more easily. In reality, the casino in your scenario did not lose anything except the virtual credit that they had extended to the gambler, who had then lost it and was expected to replace it by depositing real cash. It is actually rather shameful and would be unlikely to get any support in the courts of a country where gambling was regulated at the basic level. For example in places like Europe they do not allow you to fund gambling deposits via credit card which is a comparable situation.
hero member
Activity: 2926
Merit: 640
Even if quitting is difficult, they should still try. It would be better for them than taking a big risk that they couldn't take. Both of them have made a mistake and had a problem, which should be resolved amicably. Between the person who borrowed and the person who lent the money, they can discuss how the borrower can return the money. And the lender should be able to provide enough time for the borrower to return the money. The person who borrowed it could return the money by returning it little by little.
Not everyone who gambled with the loan is losing, but many are also benefiting a lot.  For those who are profiting, they don't have to use any of their own money, but only keep the profit in their own pocket by gambling.  But on the other hand those who gamble with loans and lose are in deep danger. Gambling is very addictive and because of it is a lot of fun everyone gets addicted to it very quickly. Because of this, one thing everyone should keep in mind is whether he can control himself from gambling
They are lucky but they should pay their loans immediately and then try to fix their selves this time, so that they won't lose all the money that they currently have and they won't end up taking another loan because they may not get lucky next time. The good thing about winning is like you said it allows us to play for free but gambling can literally be played for free though the level of happiness that we might get are reduced by some percent.

There might be other things which have a similar effect with gambling. If we know that we have a hard time controlling our selves on them then much better to not engage in gambling at all. As they say, prevention is better than cure.
hero member
Activity: 2912
Merit: 541
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Not everyone who gambled with the loan is losing, but many are also benefiting a lot.  For those who are profiting, they don't have to use any of their own money, but only keep the profit in their own pocket by gambling.  But on the other hand those who gamble with loans and lose are in deep danger. Gambling is very addictive and because of it is a lot of fun everyone gets addicted to it very quickly. Because of this, one thing everyone should keep in mind is whether he can control himself from gambling
Yes, not all of them have indeed lost, but they have lost with the large number of people who borrowed money to gamble. This makes us recommend not using borrowed money to gamble. We will find it difficult to pay off loan money because we don't have money. But if they win at gambling by borrowing the money, they can repay the loan money. That's why we really have to be able to control ourselves when playing gambling so that we don't experience big losses. When we borrow money from a betting agent, we will be chased by people from the betting agency until we return all the loan money.
legendary
Activity: 3122
Merit: 1102
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
When we enter a casino, whether it is a traditional casino, we are going to listen to many voices, advice and some express their thoughts letting us know what they say, but we as players are the owners of our own money, we are the ones who take risks, we are the that we put our face on certain occasions, and we have at our disposal everything that we must do, we have to listen to whoever, we have to pay attention to the things that others say and it is our responsibility. things that we should always do, when it comes to money and risk it, I think we should always be the protagonists.

In these casinos there will always be agents, those who are in charge of distributing chips or anything else, this type of person can give us advice or something, it is up to us if we follow them or not, when they talk about casino agents we can imagine many things, there are many, what sion in charge of everything in the casino, we as players must have decision-making power, we cannot do other things but stick to our own decisions, it is not the fault of others if we want to follow their advice or something, because the money is ours, it doesn't belong to anyone else, if we win it, it's us who win, not the others, if we lose, it's us, not the others.


however, the problem stated on the OP's case is that the gambler played using credits because the betting agent allowed him to. maybe, he was thinking that the player will win at one point so he can recover what is owed. but unfortunately, he lost it all and ended up owing about ₦‎8,000 as mentioned.
on this case, the agent has also the responsibility on this situation as he allowed him to play even if he has no more money of his own. but the gambler of course has the responsibility to pay for his debts. lesson learned for both sides, agent should not let the gamblers play on credits if he doesn't want to be accountable about the outcome. whereas, the gambler should just stick
hero member
Activity: 2688
Merit: 540
DGbet.fun - Crypto Sportsbook
Agreed, quitting is not an easy thing. Whether it is gambling or something else. The owner shouldn't have given money, just because he gave money the victim continued spending. If not, he could've left with what he had lost from his pocket. The trouble maker is the casino owner who knows well about the reality of gambling that it is not easy to recover the losses.
Even if quitting is difficult, they should still try. It would be better for them than taking a big risk that they couldn't take. Both of them have made a mistake and had a problem, which should be resolved amicably. Between the person who borrowed and the person who lent the money, they can discuss how the borrower can return the money. And the lender should be able to provide enough time for the borrower to return the money. The person who borrowed it could return the money by returning it little by little.
Not everyone who gambled with the loan is losing, but many are also benefiting a lot.  For those who are profiting, they don't have to use any of their own money, but only keep the profit in their own pocket by gambling.  But on the other hand those who gamble with loans and lose are in deep danger. Gambling is very addictive and because of it is a lot of fun everyone gets addicted to it very quickly. Because of this, one thing everyone should keep in mind is whether he can control himself from gambling
Not lots but only a few on which we know that there are ones who do able to make out and able to pay on what they owe because they had just been luckily be able to make wins out of those loaned money or been borrowing out but this should not really be enough on making yourself that got convinced for you to make such similar step just because you've seen someone who had been doing it.
We know that gambling out loaned or borrowed money which isnt yours is really that risky because on the time that you would lost it all then you would really be needing to repay which is a normal thing. What if you would be having that financial problem on which you cant be able to repay those? For sure it would really be an another huge problem that you would take.

Basing on the situation above stated then its an agreement in between the gambler and the agent and good thing that agent did make out some credits which is really that enough
for a certain gambler would be able to pay out knowing that he had some work and the amount isnt really that huge on which means that in no time or in just few days or weeks
he would be able to settle out such amount which i could say that it isnt really just that much big problem.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 1882
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
When we enter a casino, whether it is a traditional casino, we are going to listen to many voices, advice and some express their thoughts letting us know what they say, but we as players are the owners of our own money, we are the ones who take risks, we are the that we put our face on certain occasions, and we have at our disposal everything that we must do, we have to listen to whoever, we have to pay attention to the things that others say and it is our responsibility. things that we should always do, when it comes to money and risk it, I think we should always be the protagonists.

In these casinos there will always be agents, those who are in charge of distributing chips or anything else, this type of person can give us advice or something, it is up to us if we follow them or not, when they talk about casino agents we can imagine many things, there are many, what sion in charge of everything in the casino, we as players must have decision-making power, we cannot do other things but stick to our own decisions, it is not the fault of others if we want to follow their advice or something, because the money is ours, it doesn't belong to anyone else, if we win it, it's us who win, not the others, if we lose, it's us, not the others.
sr. member
Activity: 1400
Merit: 420
Agreed, quitting is not an easy thing. Whether it is gambling or something else. The owner shouldn't have given money, just because he gave money the victim continued spending. If not, he could've left with what he had lost from his pocket. The trouble maker is the casino owner who knows well about the reality of gambling that it is not easy to recover the losses.
Even if quitting is difficult, they should still try. It would be better for them than taking a big risk that they couldn't take. Both of them have made a mistake and had a problem, which should be resolved amicably. Between the person who borrowed and the person who lent the money, they can discuss how the borrower can return the money. And the lender should be able to provide enough time for the borrower to return the money. The person who borrowed it could return the money by returning it little by little.
Not everyone who gambled with the loan is losing, but many are also benefiting a lot.  For those who are profiting, they don't have to use any of their own money, but only keep the profit in their own pocket by gambling.  But on the other hand those who gamble with loans and lose are in deep danger. Gambling is very addictive and because of it is a lot of fun everyone gets addicted to it very quickly. Because of this, one thing everyone should keep in mind is whether he can control himself from gambling
hero member
Activity: 1652
Merit: 518
OrangeFren.com
Agreed, quitting is not an easy thing. Whether it is gambling or something else. The owner shouldn't have given money, just because he gave money the victim continued spending. If not, he could've left with what he had lost from his pocket. The trouble maker is the casino owner who knows well about the reality of gambling that it is not easy to recover the losses.
The person after start to gamble,it’s very hard to quit from gambling.They people says when the person start gambling,they get addicted with the first game.Their was the strategy 90 percentage of the gamblers get addicted to gambling and only ten percentage of people had the ability to get away from the gambling addiction.Actually thirty percentage of the gamblers are girl in this 21st century,they use the fake Kyc to do gambling.

It doesn’t mean,gambling only belong to the man.Woman also had the right to get participation.My friend and his girlfriend use to gamble for the full time.They enjoy every weekend with the profits from the gambling.My friend had build some strategy for the dice aand with his luck the strategy also working.
Pages:
Jump to: