Topic: Why are people cheering that ASICMINER will bring 800-1000TH online this year? - page 4. (Read 9200 times)

True that. But, the fact that it is happening and I'm squeezed out of btc mining (along with everyone else who does not own an asic) casts a shadow over the entire btc network in my mind. What I am seeing is the money supply and hashrate being dictated by a few people with access to better connections or technologies or even capital. That was always the fear right? A country or entity with better technology and capital taking over the network? Well folks, it is happening right now.

We are all being bottle necked by technology and access. Those who choose to take the leap to asics are paying a hefty premium right now (either in real money terms or risk). We are being middle-maned... Call it a tax if you will.

In the end, ASICminer will be replaced by another. But, there will always be a hefty tax.

I agree with much of what you said, but no-one is forcing anyone to buy overpriced mining hardware from ASICMiner. Sometimes, the most prudent thing to do is either buy BTC directly or simply save fiat and wait for a better opportunity.

I can't really blame ASICMiner for ripping people off if folks are dumb enough to overpay.

Overpaying ASICMiner for mining hardware just because they are shipping now is a terrible option.

When you refer to the competition, you're not just referring to other manufacturers, but everyone else mining. That includes me... I am competing with ASICminer.

I have no chance even to come close to leveling the playing field. My only hope is to pay some seriously inflated preorder price and pray that I receive something.

If I just buy a blade or whatever from ASICminer at their inflated price, they can reinvest that money into more equipment. Everytime someone buys something from ASICminer, they are probably able to replace whatever unit they sold with 10x more units. In effect, you are just giving your money to your own competitor and strengthening them. You are damning yourself and everyone else.

They are dictating the market as they see fit. Sure, you could say that they are doing the right thing or are trustworthy, but the fact of the matter is that they can do what they wish, and I'd rather not have an entity with that kind of power. The blanket statement "they are transparent and doing the right thing" has also been applied to many centralized governments. For those of you who have forgotten, this is the reason bitcoin exists.

They are monopolizing both mining equipment and hashrate. You have a 1/3 chance that recently mined bitcoins you buy are being generated by them. They are squeezing the profits from everyone except themselves... This is a serious problem. Remember, as a decentralized collection of miners, we are the bank. We are the market... With one entity controlling 30%, there is too much influence.



 

An illusion of decentralized hashing power isn't worth shit either.

I am confident Friedcat is greedy enough not crash the market by doing double-spends.

Quite an accusation. Care to back it up? Because I have two blades on my desk, that doesn't fit in your ponzi claim.


Why not seek safety in numbers? Noh! I say NO. Disperse so that every one needs to pay more for electricity! That is the way to do it! And with the same deal, waste more time managing your hardware. Double the expense, with less profit! Disperse I say! Off you go.


Why you are not a doctor? That is terrible. Everyone should be a doctor. If you can't be a doctor, then be a nurse. If not, at least be a patient. But don't you be coming here to fund our operation, because people with resources can't talk to people with out them and collaborate. Don't you dare. Communism good, capitalist baaad!


Please, tell one thing in this world that is profitable, where people are not collaborating via shares to distribute risk and to reduce costs (labor/time/energy)? Aka creating companies. One. Just one.

I agree.  I would have no problem with ASICMiner if they were just selling tested hardware on testnet.  No hardware developer that mines en masse with their own stuff should ever be trusted.  This is why testnet exists in the first place.

God damnit people...god damnit...lol

The spot price exploding so quickly which alerted the economic illiterate to BTC before ASIC had enough competitors will be looked back on as why this experiment failed.  I wasn't joining the "ASIC will kill Bitcoin" camp until I learned about investment ventures such as this.  This is horrible stuff people.  Seriously think it through.  Only support companies that use testnet.

ASICMiner is in the position they are in right now because their competition is so incompetent. I doubt they will be able to maintain so much domination of the Bitcoin network into next year as competition comes online, so current shareholders should take note regarding the current bubble like share prices...

In order to have a strong, decentralized Bitcoin network we should all root for Avalon, BFL, KncMiner, and BitFury to actually deliver ASICs in quantity before the end of the year.

Go vote for a liberal or a neocon.  We are in this so we can escape the shitty monopolies.  You're happy with it, apparently.

I'm not saying it can be stopped.  But the least you can do is not help support it further.

That's how democracy works... if it's fine with us you can either join us, or leave bitcoin forever.

My analogy is spot on and you aren't thinking it through.  This isn't about raw BTC.  I'm comparing paper promises which require trust in Comex to selling out your ability to have your own hashrate to a digital Chinese Comex.  I view hashrate as wealth when it comes to independent mining.  That's where the similarities are here.

This is a bad fucking idea.  You people are comfortable with trusting 2 or 3 big companies to handle everything in the end here.  I don't know where this could go.  It will get that bad one day so long as people keep helping companies like AM grow.  Then the community needs to fork and all of your BTC is worthless anyway.

The analogy is not correct. The AM shares pay dividends in real BTC. As far as I know, paper metals do not pay you any real dividends (though some generate taxable artifacts and report those as dividends).

Well of course they could just turn it all on and shoot straight to 70%+ of the network and bag all the coins.

I trust that they won't, because if they do then Bitcoin would effectively be centralized around Asicminer. If bitcoin isn't decentralized then it's just like any other currency and has no "USP". If  that's the case, I don't think that people would invest in Bitcoin, which of course could mean that whether Asicminer has 70% of the network or 10% of the network it wouldn't be worth anything if people don't trust Bitcoin enough to invest.

I think it's very possible that they could switch 1PH online and if they did they wouldn't maliciously attack the chain, but the fact that it could kill potential investment into Bitcoin is why I can't see them doing that.

I don't get this logic.

On the one hand, ASICMINER has hardware capable of 70%+ of the hashing and control of the network, but you trust them to not turn all of it on.

On the other, ASICMINER could just use all their hardware, and you could trust them to not 51% attack the network.

Either way requires trust, and either way could destroy the network if ASICMINER feels it necessary.

At least you admit concern.  That is all I am asking people to do before they invest in the ponzi.  A lot of people start off nice and sweet and innocent.  He won't 51% the network without harming himself, but you're potentially contributing to a scheme that is already going to half the reward to 12.5 for independent miners before we even get there in 3 years.  There is no stopping this from growing to 50% if he wants.  This is dangerous territory.

How about this...lets focus on competitors to BFL...like KNC.  Not competitors to AM.  YUCK.  Now you want to bring the reward for small miners down even further to something like 6.25 if you help another guy similar to AM do the same thing?  Don't help any competitors of AM with a similar "strategy".  BTC-garden is attempting the same thing it looks like.  Avoid.  Then you have ASICMiner with potentially 50%, BTC-garden @ 25% with the potential to keep growing, and who's next?  Soon there won't be much of anything left for the small miner.  We need to disperse the hash rate among as many people as possible.

Why do you want to let others mine for you?  That's terrible.  Isn't this the reason why we despise wall street people?  Hedge fund and mutual fund managers?  Mine for yourself.  Buy your own hardware.  If you can't do that, at least collocate or something.

This is such a bad, bad, fucking idea.  The defenders just aren't thinking this through...at all.  Why would you buy paper metals?  You buy your own and hold it.  Same goes for BTC hardware.

A price he can buy in cheaply at.

Actually this entire thread reminds me of the South Park Wal-Mart episode. Even if (some) people hate Wal-Mart, they can't stop being attracted to the falling prices.

*Disclaimer* I am an unapologetic AM shareholder. I will agree that it's somewhat of a concern having 1 company (individual) control a large portion of the BTC network. However, at least this is being done in an honest and mostly transparent fashion. It would be MUCH worse to have a private wealthy individual choose to create their own mining hardware and mine not for profit but for network manipulation - this still is a concern that we should all be worried about. Realistically it would take perhaps only a few tens of millions of dollars to make this happen.

AM on the other hand has shareholders to answer to and in order to maximize long-term profit, it's not in their best interest to attempt to control the network any further than their stated goals.

How about focusing this thread on which AM competitors actually have a chance to sell competitive hardware? Anything else is just whining.

as Far as I know. Kncminer will provide 160 Real Thash/s at least once the thousands of miner made deployed completely while BFL miner is another questions.

Perhaps the people currently using contract to power the thing up. It is not just race issue as you have supported them...

Most people are stupid. You can do the rest with hype. ;-)

ASICminer has mined approx (3200×30d×10m×0.20networkShare) = 192 000 coins in last 10 months = 19 200 this month alone. KnC sold 500+ orders in days = somewhere around 20 000 - 40 000+ BTC. TerraHash did well too, and many other ASIC makers and "makers". My bet is that there is over 100K BTC dumped because needed fiat for new ASICs. That is almost a percent of all the coins out there, dumped in days to our quite shallow markets. What would happen to gold price if one percent of all the gold is dumped on the markets? In that sense, 19 200 BTC with ASICminer / month, does not look like the biggest a problem. Maybe a part of it, yes, but not most.


This I just don't get. Drain? With this much of share holders you call this a drain? With that logic, what you call BFL? They took the BTC and are going to keep all the money. If moon is in the right angle rest of the year, maybe even send some ASICs.  So are all the rest ASIC makers. They do not share their profits, as ASICminer does.

Your reasoning sound like jealousy.

Right. ASICMINER promised, what, -to never own more then 1/3 of the network and to maximise profit for shareholders. That's what he is doing all that time.