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Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 408. (Read 901367 times)

sr. member
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June 16, 2015, 08:26:05 AM
So I see 2 threads of why islam hates people or why people hate Islam. I dont see the point of such a mundane debate based on religion any debate for or against religion would be stupid. Either you are stupid to believe what a prophet / god / divine entity said or you are stupid enough to believe you can change the minds of the bleak minded people who follow such a prophet / god / divine entity.

But since its fun let me initiate my own brand of 'why do' topic.

WHY DO ATHEISTS (like me) HATE RELIGION ?

Seriously what has to happen in a person's life for them to seriously give up hope on the one true everlasting brand (of religion) which their ancestors have followed for generations.

Everyone has their own story even I have mine, so lets hear some of it.





Lack of evidence; to be honest, i've met several people who don't believe in anything just because it is mainstream, not because they have any significant reason.
legendary
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June 16, 2015, 04:43:39 AM
Edit:  Consider the syntax of our own language and what is required for meaning.  Consider the following (non)sentence: "Apple."  This means nothing by itself.  An apple, we know, is an object, but it is a completely meaningless object unless it is related to some subject.  Now consider the sentence: "An apple is a fruit."  Now, broken down: "An apple (subject) is a fruit (object)."  Meaning is derived from a subject-object relationship. This sets a 'ratio' (the root word of "rationale") between the subject and object so we can make sense of it.  Objectivity by itself is meaningless in the way you describe it.  You're failing to consider that, for objectivity to be in any way meaningful, it must be fundamentally inseparable from subjectivity.

Objects are not "made" to be meaningful (or meaningless, for that matter) by themselves. You, at first, try to ascribe to them some qualitative category (namely, that of possessing a meaning), which they don't have, and then, on that basis, make them appear as incomplete since they allegedly lack in a property of that category. Meaning is purely subjective, objects, on the contrary, are neither meaningful nor meaningless...

In short, what you say about subjective and objective having the same root seems to make even less sense than your ideas about determinism
sr. member
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June 15, 2015, 01:00:00 PM
Atheist its not hate Religion, they just not believe the existence of god  Grin.
Atheists think that God is not there because God does not look do not feel they think that everything that happens in this world have nothing to do with God  Cheesy.
That's just my opinion because i am not Atheists.
legendary
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June 15, 2015, 12:19:10 PM
From our perspective, we have evidence of mummies, and we have evidence of a cancerous tumors in those mummies.  Practically, this evidence suggests that, yes, cancer did exist back then, and may have been the cause of their deaths.  We know this (practically) because we 1) have verified the evidence, and 2) have applied the rules of inductive inference to conclude that these mummies had cancer, and this conclusion comes with a very, very high level of confidence.

From the mummies' perspective (granting their prior living existence), they wouldn't know, because they presumably couldn't know. You have to accept this. The answer depends upon the perspective and what is verifiable.

So what you say boils down to subjective existence (as opposed to objective existence), that is, something exists only as long as we think it exists. Yes, I am familiar with that point of view. No, I do not share this view. I guess you will have to accept this...

No.  It boils down to the fact that subjective and objective are homogenized at a fundamental level...that objective content is ultimately inseparable from the mental constructs that describe them.  You're a huge fan of dichotomies, and I'm encouraging you not to be.  You're not familiar with this point of view because you keep trying to cram your square peg into a round hole.  Something is known to exist after it has been verified.  You can't know what you can't verify, and you can't verify what you aren't aware of, and so you can't objectify anything without being aware of it.  Therefore, what is objectively known is utterly dependent upon subjective awareness or "mind."  This does NOT, however, means it loses objectivity.  Rather, you just have a poor understanding of objectivity.

Edit:  Consider the syntax of our own language and what is required for meaning.  Consider the following (non)sentence: "Apple."  This means nothing by itself.  An apple, we know, is an object, but it is a completely meaningless object unless it is related to some subject.  Now consider the sentence: "An apple is a fruit."  Now, broken down: "An apple (subject) is a fruit (object)."  Meaning is derived from a subject-object relationship. This sets a 'ratio' (the root word of "rationale") between the subject and object so we can make sense of it.  Objectivity by itself is meaningless in the way you describe it.  You're failing to consider that, for objectivity to be in any way meaningful, it must be fundamentally inseparable from subjectivity.

Edit 2:  Another, more primordial example, is the self-evident process of metacognition whereby we, as subjects, objectify ourselves in a self-referential process.  We derive meaning in our lives and form a meaningful self-concept through this process whereby we, as subjects, objectify ourselves [e.g. "I (subject) am a subject (object)."].   And voila! -- Subjectivity objectified  Cool
legendary
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June 15, 2015, 10:42:17 AM
From our perspective, we have evidence of mummies, and we have evidence of a cancerous tumors in those mummies.  Practically, this evidence suggests that, yes, cancer did exist back then, and may have been the cause of their deaths.  We know this (practically) because we 1) have verified the evidence, and 2) have applied the rules of inductive inference to conclude that these mummies had cancer, and this conclusion comes with a very, very high level of confidence.

From the mummies' perspective (granting their prior living existence), they wouldn't know, because they presumably couldn't know. You have to accept this. The answer depends upon the perspective and what is verifiable.

So what you say boils down to subjective existence (as opposed to objective existence), that is, something exists only as long as we think it exists. Yes, I am familiar with that point of view. No, I do not share this view. I guess you will have to accept this...
legendary
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June 15, 2015, 10:22:32 AM
Quote
But ultimately it is irrelevant, since, say, cancer kept on killing people as effectively when they got an idea about it as it had been doing when they did not have a clue about it. Was it non-existent when people knew nothing about it, and if it was (non-existent) why people still died from it?

Until the point at which someone verifies a person has cancerous cells in their body, then nobody knows whether they have cancer or not.  A person may be aware of subtle (or drastic) changes to their experience of being just prior to verifying that they have cancer, but you cannot conclude before verification that a person has cancer, or that they died from it.

I see that you are trying to subtly switch contexts. I talked about the existence of cancer as a malady even before people knew anything about this disease. Now you are talking about whether an individual knows he has cancer or not. Yes, people had cancer in ancient times, which has been verified in present times by finding various cancer tumors in Egyptian and South American mummies. So I have to repeat my question, did cancer exist back then when people knew nothing about it (and thus couldn't verify it)?

It seems that your theory of mental awareness of a thing as a prerequisite for its existence fails a reality check

I'm not switching contexts at all.  It's a simple point that one can not know whether something exists or not without verification.  So, did cancer exist back then?  Well, let's consider the question from two perspectives, ours and theirs.

From our perspective, we have evidence of mummies, and we have evidence of a cancerous tumors in those mummies.  Practically, this evidence suggests that, yes, cancer did exist back then, and may have been the cause of their deaths.  We know this (practically) because we 1) have verified the evidence, and 2) have applied the rules of inductive inference to conclude that these mummies had cancer, and this conclusion comes with a very, very high level of confidence.

Ultimately, from a strictly rationalist point of view (which often appears to conflict with practical reasoning), what we can absolutely conclude is that we have evidence of mummies with tumors in them.  Practcally, we conclude these mummies were alive and died with cancer in them, which aligns with what we know about cancer and mummies.  Ultimately, we can't conclude these mummies were ever alive to begin with (though again, practically, it would be silly to ignore the evidence).

From the mummies' perspective (granting their prior living existence), they wouldn't know, because they presumably couldn't know. You have to accept this. The answer depends upon the perspective and what is verifiable.
full member
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June 15, 2015, 09:43:45 AM
-Update-
My story


I was a kid raised up in a brahmin Hindu family, its one of those most 'pure' casts you could find in the Hindu society, offcourse every branch of the brahmin cast claims to be such but 'Chatterjee' or 'Chattopadhyay' s are the top ones - or so I ve been told.
So with that backdrop you can pretty much say that I had the most stringiest of religious teachings one could ever get.

Being a brahmin kid, traditionally you have to go through a ritual or a sort of rite of passage called 'poita' in bengali or Upanayana in sanskrit. This has to be done before the age of 15 and no earlier than the age of 7.

So I remember as the days went by my parents were beginning to talk more & more about this rite of passage how my father had to go bald and stay with a step mother (part of the ritual - no that mother has no relationship with the father of the pupil) and has to beg around and eat only boiled vegetables through out these days. Obviously this was getting kinda scary for me, I was already the odd fat kid in school and the thought of getting more attention because of a bald head was nerve wracking for me. Among all the discussions that my father and I had I remember him vaguely mentioning that only when I go through this ritual would I be called a purified soul reborn on earth worthy of going to heaven.

That got me thinking, it was a bewildering fact for me which I couldnt get my head around. I and only all the other brahmin kids had a free ticket to heaven while the rest are automatically considered unworthy ? What about my best friend who had a surname of Moitra ? What about that girl I had a crush on with a surname of Kundu, wait a second, "what about mom?" I asked my father.
I remember this distinctly as my father explained to me that girls dont have a caste, they belong to the man they marry and since my mother was married to him she will be worthy of going to heaven with him. But what if she married a muslim ?? Dont remember if I ever asked this back then but I certainly did have this thought from around the same time.

This did not sit well with me, I began questioning every aspect of 'Poita' my tantrums got so bad that my parents eventually considered to not force me to go through this ritual. However, my tantrums back then were fueled by the desire of eating chicken.

But this small victory of not getting the poita was a good enough spark in my mind to raise questions on all aspects of religion.
Then at the age of nine, I got the greatest gift I ever thought I could get in my life; Cable TV and with it the Discovery channel.

Hence began my journey into the world of science, off course we had physics / chemistry / maths in our schools but for the first time all of it actually meant something to me. I was fascinated by how gravity works. I was spellbound when I first saw an animated version of the milky way. I found out that there was a real person named Pythagoras. Basically cable TV was the fuel that my spark required to become a full fledged atheist.

.. and that is my story.

Wow, that's so inspirational to read. You're a very interesting human and a great motivation. God bless your soul.
legendary
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June 15, 2015, 09:30:50 AM
Quote
But ultimately it is irrelevant, since, say, cancer kept on killing people as effectively when they got an idea about it as it had been doing when they did not have a clue about it. Was it non-existent when people knew nothing about it, and if it was (non-existent) why people still died from it?

Until the point at which someone verifies a person has cancerous cells in their body, then nobody knows whether they have cancer or not.  A person may be aware of subtle (or drastic) changes to their experience of being just prior to verifying that they have cancer, but you cannot conclude before verification that a person has cancer, or that they died from it.

I see that you are trying to subtly switch contexts. I talked about the existence of cancer as a malady even before people knew anything about this disease. Now you are talking about whether an individual knows he has cancer or not. Yes, people had cancer in ancient times, which has been verified in present times by finding various cancer tumors in Egyptian and South American mummies. So I have to repeat my question, did cancer exist back then when people knew nothing about it (and thus couldn't verify it)?

It seems that your theory of mental awareness of a thing as a prerequisite for its existence fails a reality check
legendary
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June 15, 2015, 07:48:14 AM
Here's a task for you: Name one -- just one -- example of something that has been affirmed to exist outside a theory of that thing existing.  Anything!  Just one!  Never in the history of human kind has something been affirmed to be true outside of a theory, because what is true corresponds to a true theory!

Something that exists needs neither theory nor confirmation. It exists since it exists (as you would put it), independent of whether I believe in it or not, whether I build theories around it or not. It may exist though I might prefer that it didn't...

Or I may not even know about it

Asserting something exists is a theoretical confirmation.  "It exists" is a theory of "it."

I do not assert that something exists. In fact, I don't care, in an abstract sense (unless I'm particularly interested that it actually does). How can my idea (or lack thereof) whether it exists or not, interfere with its objective existence?

You have no basis to assume it has an objective existence independent of your mind.  I already explained how you are making a "totally unnecessary and wholly unfalsifiable assumption," and then explained why it is unfalsifiable.

Quote
On the other hand, if I begin asserting that something doesn't exist (say, in an effort to conceal something), what does it change?

I'm not sure I understand this question.  What matters is whether your assertion is consistent and verifiable.

Quote
But ultimately it is irrelevant, since, say, cancer kept on killing people as effectively when they got an idea about it as it had been doing when they did not have a clue about it. Was it non-existent when people knew nothing about it, and if it was (non-existent) why people still died from it?

Until the point at which someone verifies a person has cancerous cells in their body, then nobody knows whether they have cancer or not.  A person may be aware of subtle (or drastic) changes to their experience of being just prior to verifying that they have cancer, but you cannot conclude before verification that a person has cancer, or that they died from it.

Quote
Thereby I begin to consider that you are misusing the notion of existence (that of objective being) as you see appropriate to your ideas...

Assuming you've never taken the appropriate measures to verify for yourself, do you have cancer right now?  Can you answer that question definitively unless you've verified it?  Furthermore, can you verify this independent of your mindful awareness of it?
legendary
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June 15, 2015, 07:36:42 AM
Look, yesterday you were pretending that your reasoning cannot be falsified by any means, as well as making bold statements that you were telling the absolute truths (or something to that tune). Today you seem to have agreed about a possibility (I'd rather say a necessity) that there might (I'd say should) exist higher logic that may render your assertions either incomplete or outright invalid. Should I conclude that what you said yesterday may not be true (about the infallibility of your logic)?

This is what I see

The two do not contradict each other.  Conceding to a possibility of some higher level of logic is not inconsistent with saying that we can know absolutely what is true and not true in terms of our own mind and brand of logic in relation to Reality (Edit: Or, to absolutely know what we absolutely cannot know).

I suspect this is not quite the same what you were previously saying. You didn't say that you could know what is true and what is not. In fact, you claimed that you actually knew what is true ("Maybe you will never know, but I do. Sorry"), such was the tone of posts. Do you see the difference, or should I start quoting your whole posts?

Now you are apparently backpedaling this issue

No, I said like three times that we can know what is true absolutely in terms of our mind/brand of logic as it relates to the reality we inhabit.  Then I also referenced the quantum mechanics analogy a couple times to explain what it would be like to entertain the idea of rationalizing about something in the context of a logic higher than our own.  You're being extremely selective in the bits and pieces you're choosing to respond to, but I think we can agree that I have responded directly to virtually all of your contentions.  Please, re-quote my posts, or I can do the same to show you where I have addressed these issues (I mean this seriously, not patronizingly).

I also mentioned in previous posts that knowing something absolutely can also include "knowing absolutely what we cannot know absolutely."
legendary
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June 15, 2015, 04:15:48 AM
Here's a task for you: Name one -- just one -- example of something that has been affirmed to exist outside a theory of that thing existing.  Anything!  Just one!  Never in the history of human kind has something been affirmed to be true outside of a theory, because what is true corresponds to a true theory!

Something that exists needs neither theory nor confirmation. It exists since it exists (as you would put it), independent of whether I believe in it or not, whether I build theories around it or not. It may exist though I might prefer that it didn't...

Or I may not even know about it

Asserting something exists is a theoretical confirmation.  "It exists" is a theory of "it."

I do not assert that something exists. In fact, I don't care, in an abstract sense (unless I'm particularly interested that it actually does). How can my idea (or lack thereof) whether it exists or not, interfere with its objective existence? On the other hand, if I begin asserting that something doesn't exist (say, in an effort to conceal something), what does it change?

But ultimately it is irrelevant, since, say, cancer kept on killing people as effectively when they got an idea about it as it had been doing when they did not have a clue about it. Was it non-existent when people knew nothing about it, and if it was (non-existent) why people still died from it?

Thereby I begin to consider that you are misusing the notion of existence (that of objective being) as you see appropriate to your ideas...
legendary
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June 15, 2015, 04:10:51 AM
Look, yesterday you were pretending that your reasoning cannot be falsified by any means, as well as making bold statements that you were telling the absolute truths (or something to that tune). Today you seem to have agreed about a possibility (I'd rather say a necessity) that there might (I'd say should) exist higher logic that may render your assertions either incomplete or outright invalid. Should I conclude that what you said yesterday may not be true (about the infallibility of your logic)?

This is what I see

The two do not contradict each other.  Conceding to a possibility of some higher level of logic is not inconsistent with saying that we can know absolutely what is true and not true in terms of our own mind and brand of logic in relation to Reality (Edit: Or, to absolutely know what we absolutely cannot know).

I suspect this is not quite the same what you were previously saying. You didn't say that you could know what is true and what is not. In fact, you claimed that you actually knew what is true ("Maybe you will never know, but I do. Sorry"), such was the tone of posts. Do you see the difference, or should I start quoting your whole posts?

Now you are apparently backpedaling this issue
legendary
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June 14, 2015, 07:08:25 PM
Atheism is at its core a reactionary whining that thrives on destruction of established ideas chiefly founded by those who had daddy/mommy issues with strict christian parental 'oppression'.

Done.

/thread

Not really, it atheism just requires proof to believe in something, and all religions seem to be bullshit that ancient people used to have the pleb working and not complaining about inequalities.

Yet, unfortunately, most atheists falsely believe that empirical proof is required to believe in something, when in fact empirical proof is only required to believe in something empirical.  This is a huge and fundamental error given that real, abstract structures (e.g. mathematical ones, etc. ) self-apparently exist and require zero empirical proof to confirm.
legendary
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June 14, 2015, 05:19:10 PM
Here's a task for you: Name one -- just one -- example of something that has been affirmed to exist outside a theory of that thing existing.  Anything!  Just one!  Never in the history of human kind has something been affirmed to be true outside of a theory, because what is true corresponds to a true theory!

Something that exists needs neither theory nor confirmation. It exists since it exists (as you would put it), independent of whether I believe in it or not, whether I build theories around it or not. It may exist though I might prefer that it didn't...

Or I may not even know about it

Asserting something exists is a theoretical confirmation.  "It exists" is a theory of "it."  

I don't know why you keep thinking that something can just exist in the absence of an abstract (i.e. mental) metric to differentiate between existence and non-existence.  If I ask you "does it exist?" and you can't choose between "1" and "0," i.e. "yes" or "no," then you have no idea whether it exists or not.  You can't just assume it does, else you have created a new theory of "it" with zero rational basis.  Again, there have been exactly zero cases where anything has been affirmed to exist outside of its corresponding theory of existence.  All you're doing is throwing out an unnecessary and wholly unfalsifable assumption.  To falsify it would require that you can affirm it's true in the absence of affirmation.  Good luck with that one.

An analogy is the unfalsifiable assumption of a Positivistic Universe upon which the entirety of the Scientific Method rests.  The Positivistic Universe assumption states that all objects have a static, concrete nature that perseverates independent of observation.  This assumption is empirically unfalsifiable, for to falsify it would require obtaining empirical data via observation in a Universe totally void of any observers.  The only reason it works is because the Scientific Method defers to Philosophy -- specifically, the rules of sound inference and an awareness of the limits of logical induction -- to justify its continued use (i.e. by blaring its limitations at every conceivable turn).  However, the Positivistic Universe assumption was logically falsified thousands of years ago, a la Plato (see my earlier post a few pages back referencing his work on sameness and difference) and likely others before him.  We know logically, that all things different reduce to a common medium, which includes differential entities such as empirical phenomena and the mental theories/models we use to describe them.

Edit:  Reworded.
legendary
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June 14, 2015, 05:09:59 PM
As I said, I don't follow your ideas of random and non-random being just abstract models, therefore your method is not my method, wtf. I assume that the world exists independent of our existence (or our mind). You seem to be of the opposite opinion. So your idea may be correct in your perception of the world ("these things can't be known to exist outside of mind and theory"), okay. But this in no case makes such a perception valid per se or the only one in a set, which may also include such where you (and your ideas) are flat-out wrong (or even don't exist at all, sorry)...

I guess you insist that your understanding of the world should be the only "legal" one?

It is self-apparent that random and non-random are abstract models.  You can continue to ignore the obvious, or just simply accept what is right in front of you at all times.  You can never get away from this.

Look, yesterday you were pretending that your reasoning cannot be falsified by any means, as well as making bold statements that you were telling the absolute truths (or something to that tune). Today you seem to have agreed about a possibility (I'd rather say a necessity) that there might (I'd say should) exist higher logic that may render your assertions either incomplete or outright invalid. Should I conclude that what you said yesterday may not be true (about the infallibility of your logic)?

This is what I see

The two do not contradict each other.  Conceding to a possibility of some higher level of logic is not inconsistent with saying that we can know absolutely what is true and not true in terms of our own mind and brand of logic in relation to Reality (Edit: Or, to absolutely know what we absolutely cannot know).  For example, we can know absolutely that this possibility is totally irrelevant of consideration inasmuch as we know we will never, ever, be able to address the question.  This is absolutely infallible.  We need to first identify a limit of theorization so that we know our boundaries and don't overstep them.  We are limited to playing in a sandbox with impenetrable boundaries, and you keep entertaining the idea of somehow penetrating them.  The idea is to identify exactly where and why these boundaries exist so that we don't needlessly waste our time pursuing the impossible.  Providing a resolution to the possibility of some concrete logic higher than our own outside of "we'll never know because it is impossible" is, well...impossible.
hero member
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June 14, 2015, 05:08:52 PM
Atheism is at its core a reactionary whining that thrives on destruction of established ideas chiefly founded by those who had daddy/mommy issues with strict christian parental 'oppression'.

Done.

/thread

Not really, it atheism just requires proof to believe in something, and all religions seem to be bullshit that ancient people used to have the pleb working and not complaining about inequalities.
legendary
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June 14, 2015, 04:41:14 PM
Here's a task for you: Name one -- just one -- example of something that has been affirmed to exist outside a theory of that thing existing.  Anything!  Just one!  Never in the history of human kind has something been affirmed to be true outside of a theory, because what is true corresponds to a true theory!

Something that exists needs neither theory nor confirmation. It exists since it exists (as you would put it), independent of whether I believe in it or not, whether I build theories around it or not. It may exist though I might prefer that it didn't...

Or I may not even know about it
newbie
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June 14, 2015, 04:25:59 PM
Atheism is at its core a reactionary whining that thrives on destruction of established ideas chiefly founded by those who had daddy/mommy issues with strict christian parental 'oppression'.

Done.

/thread
legendary
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June 14, 2015, 04:24:29 PM
As I said, I don't follow your ideas of random and non-random being just abstract models, therefore your method is not my method, wtf. I assume that the world exists independent of our existence (or our mind). You seem to be of the opposite opinion. So your idea may be correct in your perception of the world ("these things can't be known to exist outside of mind and theory"), okay. But this in no case makes such a perception valid per se or the only one in a set, which may also include such where you (and your ideas) are flat-out wrong (or even don't exist at all, sorry)...

I guess you insist that your understanding of the world should be the only "legal" one?

It is self-apparent that random and non-random are abstract models.  You can continue to ignore the obvious, or just simply accept what is right in front of you at all times.  You can never get away from this.

Look, yesterday you were pretending that your reasoning cannot be falsified by any means, as well as making bold statements that you were telling the absolute truths (or something to that tune). Today you seem to have agreed about a possibility (I'd rather say a necessity) that there might (I'd say should) exist higher logic that may render your assertions either incomplete or outright invalid. Should I conclude that what you said yesterday may not be true (about the infallibility of your logic)?

This is what I see
legendary
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June 14, 2015, 04:08:20 PM
1) Is this a possibility?  Simply put, not a relevant one.  Any consideration of this type is totally irrelevant since we are totally limited to our brand of logic.  Accordingly, what is relevant is understanding the best that we can do, and I addressed this point by specifically noting that it is necessary to identify the logical limits of our capacity to theorize.  Your consideration, here, can be addressed in similar fashion to how metaphysicists consider hypothetical events occurring outside the scope of perception. "If a tree falls in the forest and it is not observed, did it actually fall?"  Bad question, as we totally lack any means of providing a definitive answer.

It doesn't really matter, since, as I said before, we most likely won't be able to find out whether the world is true random or not. And that would be not because our logic could be at fail (but it would be enough to throw away any inconsistency of the sorts you are trying to find, if there is any), but because pure lack of knowledge, even entirely within our comprehension limits. We may never know whether we deal with a true randomness or a seeming one...

So we are left either to speculate or just believe (that's why atheists are miserable losers)

Again, wrong question, and false dichotomy.  I provided a method by which we can form an understanding of how "true random" relates to "non-random."  Random and non-random are, again, simply abstract models that provide an explanation.  But, they fail to account for themselves, and thus carry only relative -- not objective -- descriptive power.  Self-determinism describes how "true random" and "non-random" are both interrelated and exclusionary, in an objective manner.  It provides a cause for the formation of "true random" and "non-random" models in general.  

"Random" and "non-random" are theoretic models...a product of mind.  These things can't be known to exist outside of mind and theory.

Correction:  You are left to speculate.  I am correct.

As I said, I don't follow your ideas of random and non-random being just abstract models, therefore your method is not my method, wtf. I assume that the world exists independent of our existence (or our mind). You seem to be of the opposite opinion. So your idea may be correct in your perception of the world ("these things can't be known to exist outside of mind and theory"), okay. But this in no case makes such a perception valid per se or the only one in a set, which may also include such where you (and your ideas) are flat-out wrong (or even don't exist at all, sorry)...

I guess you insist that your understanding of the world should be the only "legal" one?

It is self-apparent that random and non-random are abstract models.  You can continue to ignore the obvious, or just simply accept what is right in front of you at all times.  You can never get away from this.

It's as self-apparent and simple as recognizing your own existence.  When you're thinking of what "random" and "non-random" are, those thoughts are models of those things.  Period.  Any word corresponds to a theory of that word, and we use these words -- which themselves are self-contained within a coherent, consistent language -- to describe what we perceive in a consistent way.  This is so incredibly simple because it is self-evident at all times that absolutely everything real corresponds to, and interdependent with, its theory.  Theories give rise to a coherent, consistent reality.  

It's in front of your nose.  It's...right...there.

Here's a task for you: Name one -- just one -- example of something that has been affirmed to exist outside a theory of that thing existing.  Anything!  Just one!  Never in the history of human kind has something been affirmed to be true outside of a theory, because what is true corresponds to a true theory!

Logic is a predicate for truth, NOT vice-versa. The only way something true exists is by way of a relational statement.  The root word of rationale is "ratio," and truth ONLY exists inasmuch as sound, rational statements exist.  It is logically self-apparent that no truth exists outside of logical statements.  Therefore, what is "true" is a product of an understanding of mind set in ratio to what is being described as "true."  True things exist only because they are inherently related to, and described by, mind according to the rules of logic.

I don't know how many ways I can try to explain something so incredibly simple and obvious.  Again.  It's.  Right.  There.  This is knowable at a 100% level of confidence at all times.

To answer your final question, is demonstrable that 1) absolute truth exists, 2) absolute truth is knowable (i.e. we can be 100% certain that we have arrived at the best answer we can possibly hope to achieve), and thus 3) there is a correct answer.
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