Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 410. (Read 901520 times)

Quote from: cryptodevil on June 02, 2015, 10:30:05 AM

Actually, you are trying to distort the facts. The passages you cited do not prove your words.

"Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me"

Number 1 on the list. Number 1.

So it is pretty clear that worshiping another god is *the* worst thing above all else.

If you call that logical inference that your logic is rather skewed, I dare say

From your own experience? What is that meant to mean? We are talking about the opinion of gods, here, something only found in their respective 'Holy' scriptures, preferably dictated by illiterate goat-herders, then refined, edited and generally cherry-picked over hundreds of years to add to a collection of mismatched fables according to the goals of whichever Church was producing it, of course.

Strictly speaking, it is you who is talking about the opinion of gods. As I said before, I just followed your course (when you started citing scriptures), but it would be a mistake on your part to think that you somehow narrowed my scope of reason thereby...

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Actually, you are trying to distort the facts. The passages you cited do not prove your words.

"Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me"

Number 1 on the list. Number 1.

So it is pretty clear that worshiping another god is *the* worst thing above all else.

From my own experience (without reference to scriptures and all that) I can tell that atheists and their kind are considered sinners of higher magnitude for being such than followers of another religion.

From your own experience? What is that meant to mean? We are talking about the opinion of gods, here, something only found in their respective 'Holy' scriptures, preferably dictated by illiterate goat-herders, then refined, edited and generally cherry-picked over hundreds of years to add to a collection of mismatched fables according to the goals of whichever Church was producing it, of course.

How come your experience matters? Citation please Mr God-Like.

Quote from: cryptodevil on June 02, 2015, 08:13:29 AM

Even in Ancient Rome it didn't matter which gods you offered prayers to as long as you did pray...

That would be why, exactly? Social norms are dictated by human beings, refusing to pray would single you out as a potentially dangerous free-thinker and not likely to be controlled like the rest of the sheep. You have failed to make the connection to WhatGodWants(tm) and are only referencing cultural norms of the time, which is irrelevant in terms of Pascal's Wager.

You, however, insist that *your* god is real because you cited scripture from your particular 'Holy' book-of-choice and I asked you how I could trust that your god was the 'right' one, given that all the other religions claims their god is the right one and you all have exactly the same level of evidence supporting your claims towards your particular god being the coca-cola of gods.

Be honest, you don't want to answer this because you *know* your god is the 'right' one, amirite?!!! LOL.

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Quote from: cryptodevil on June 02, 2015, 08:13:29 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 02, 2015, 07:57:17 AM

It is up to you. I just said that believing in some Supreme Deity is more optimal strategy than believing in none (or disbelieving in any). Besides that, any human is still a caveman deep (or not so deep) inside with his inborn fears and terrors (regarding "God has made it plain to them")...

I know that's what you said, I just pointed out that it is false to claim that it is more 'optimal' to believe in a god than none, considering the actual fact that most 'holy' scripture for the many gods claimed to be real tend to *really* emphasize the fact that worshiping any other god is usually *the* worst sin you can commit against 'Him'.

Hence the logical response to that dilemma, which is to not believe in any of them.

Actually, you are trying to distort the facts. The passages you cited do not prove your words. From my own experience (without reference to scriptures and all that) I can tell that atheists and their kind are considered sinners of higher magnitude for being such than followers of another religion for being that. Even in Ancient Rome it didn't matter which gods you offered prayers to as long as you did pray...

Quote from: cryptodevil on June 02, 2015, 08:13:29 AM

You, however, insist that *your* god is real because you cited scripture from your particular 'Holy' book-of-choice and I asked you how I could trust that your god was the 'right' one, given that all the other religions claims their god is the right one and you all have exactly the same level of evidence supporting your claims towards your particular god being the coca-cola of gods.

You won't buy me with that. It was you who began citing scriptures in the first place. I just followed your course and showed that exactly these scriptures promise "the wrath of God being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people". By no means this wrath is directed towards people who believe in another God. It is directed against pagans before all, since declaring himself an atheist back then (by whatever name) inexorably entailed punishment...

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Quote from: deisik on June 02, 2015, 07:57:17 AM

It is up to you. I just said that believing in some Supreme Deity is more optimal strategy than believing in none (or disbelieving in any). Besides that, any human is still a caveman deep (or not so deep) inside with his inborn fears and terrors (regarding "God has made it plain to them")...

I know that's what you said, I just pointed out that it is false to claim that it is more 'optimal' to believe in a god than none, considering the actual fact that most 'holy' scripture for the many gods claimed to be real tend to *really* emphasize the fact that worshiping any other god is usually *the* worst sin you can commit against 'Him'.

Hence the logical response to that dilemma, which is to not believe in any of them.

You, however, insist that *your* god is real because you cited scripture from your particular 'Holy' book-of-choice and I asked you how I could trust that your god was the 'right' one, given that all the other religions claims their god is the right one and you all have exactly the same level of evidence supporting your claims towards your particular god being the coca-cola of gods. (just so you know, that 'evidence' is known as circular-reasoning because you all claim that your books say your god is real and your god wrote those books so, you know, he must be real because the books he wrote say he is real which means . . . do you see the problem there?)

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Quote from: cryptodevil on June 02, 2015, 07:49:13 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 02, 2015, 07:38:28 AM

Psalm 14:1 - The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good

Romans 1: - 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

So beware, you are without excuse, ever!

Except one small point, given that this is just *your* god, the Muslim god and the Jewish god and all the others say pretty much the same thing about worshiping them, too, so who should I believe and why?

It is up to you. I just said that believing in some Supreme Deity is more optimal strategy than believing in none (or disbelieving in any). Besides that, any human is still a caveman deep (or not so deep) inside with his inborn fears and terrors (regarding "God has made it plain to them")...

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Quote from: deisik on June 02, 2015, 07:38:28 AM

Psalm 14:1 - The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good

Romans 1: - 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

So beware, you are without excuse, ever!

Except one small point, given that this is just *your* god, the Muslim god and the Jewish god and all the others say pretty much the same thing about worshiping them, too, so who should I believe and why?

So with regards to "because God has made it plain to them", no, 'He' hasn't at all, clearly, otherwise we'd all know there was just the one god and we'd know exactly what he wants of us with no uncertainty or doubt or room for human interpretation, right? You know, human interpretation, like the process you go through when you read your religious scripture and it perfectly aligns with your own world-view, only, here's the problem, that very same scripture is also believed to say something different to pretty much everyone else who cites a level of 'understanding' which, too, happens to align perfectly with their personal world-view.

Quote

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
...Stephen F Roberts

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Quote from: cryptodevil on June 02, 2015, 07:22:35 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 02, 2015, 06:48:53 AM

By any means, sincere ignorance is more forgivable than downright defiance, so you won't get away cheap when the reckoning starts...

By which authority do you cite such a thing?

Because, for example, worshiping a 'false idol' is very clearly described as being one of the worst possible sins you can commit.

Quote

Exodus 20:3 - Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 34:14 - For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:

So, I've produced the goods to prove that it is actually less of a 'sin' to not worship a god than it is to worship a different god.

Care to actually back up your smug yet uninformed position about 'sincere ignorance'?

BTW 'downright defiance'? Prove it, prove how an inability to believe in a god, due to their being no justifiable reason to do so, could be considered as being 'downright defiant'? You can't force yourself to believe once your brain sees the man behind the curtain, the logical fallacies, the special-pleading demands. etc.

Psalm 14:1 - The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good

Romans 1: - 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

So beware, you are without excuse, ever!

cryptodevil

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Quote from: deisik on June 02, 2015, 06:48:53 AM

By any means, sincere ignorance is more forgivable than downright defiance, so you won't get away cheap when the reckoning starts...

By which authority do you cite such a thing?

Because, for example, worshiping a 'false idol' is very clearly described as being one of the worst possible sins you can commit.

Quote

Exodus 20:3 - Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 34:14 - For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:

So, I've produced the goods to prove that it is actually less of a 'sin' to not worship a god than it is to worship a different god.

Care to actually back up your smug yet uninformed position about 'sincere ignorance'?

BTW 'downright defiance'? Prove it, prove how an inability to believe in a god, due to their being no justifiable reason to do so, could be considered as being 'downright defiant'? You can't force yourself to believe once your brain sees the man behind the curtain, the logical fallacies, the special-pleading demands. etc.

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Religious debaters are usually very smooth and well prepared. The reason is not that their arguments are so persuasive but that they generally have spent years polishing the same old arguments….

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Quote from: cryptodevil on June 02, 2015, 06:42:03 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 02, 2015, 05:48:35 AM

Quite simple. If you believe and God exists, you'll be rewarded. If God doesn't exist, you lose nothing. Therefore believing is more optimal strategy in life (and beyond), which atheists simply can't agree with and humbly resign themselves to...

Fail.

Which God are you supposed to believe in? If you choose the wrong one, which would be a high probability given the many thousands and thousands of possible gods from historical myth and legend, you'd be punished more for worshiping a 'false idol' than you would for electing not to worship any of them. This we know from the numerous 'holy' scriptures that magically dictate WhatGodWants(tm), something which is conveniently in complete alignment with the person professing a claim to such knowledge.

God is generally a needy bastard who doesn't take kindly to his ignorant minions worshiping the wrong deity.

By any means, sincere ignorance is more forgivable than downright defiance, so you won't get away cheap when the reckoning starts...

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Quote from: deisik on June 02, 2015, 05:48:35 AM

Quite simple. If you believe and God exists, you'll be rewarded. If God doesn't exist, you lose nothing. Therefore believing is more optimal strategy in life (and beyond), which atheists simply can't agree with and humbly resign themselves to...

Fail.

Which God are you supposed to believe in? If you choose the wrong one, which would be a high probability given the many thousands and thousands of possible gods from historical myth and legend, you'd be punished more for worshiping a 'false idol' than you would for electing not to worship any of them. This we know from the numerous 'holy' scriptures that magically dictate WhatGodWants(tm), something which is conveniently in complete alignment with the person professing a claim to such knowledge.

God is generally a needy bastard who doesn't take kindly to his ignorant minions worshiping the wrong deity.

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Quote from: legendster on May 08, 2015, 11:30:31 AM

But since its fun let me initiate my own brand of 'why do' topic.

WHY DO ATHEISTS (like me) HATE RELIGION ?

Quite simple. If you believe and God exists, you'll be rewarded. If God doesn't exist, you lose nothing. Therefore believing is more optimal strategy in life (and beyond), which atheists simply can't agree with and humbly resign themselves to...

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Quote from: the joint on June 01, 2015, 02:38:21 PM

Quote from: jaysabi on June 01, 2015, 02:28:00 PM

When you post garabage about your common law fantasy, you look even sillier than when you're trying to keep all your religious nonsense straight.

Is this related to that "Freeman on the Land" garbage I've seen when people make complete fools of themselves in court and post it on YouTube as a win?

Possibly. BADecker is on some thing about how all you have to do is challenge the jurisdiction of the court by telling them to define certain magic words and then you COMMON LAW VICTORY WIN or something wholly ridiculous. (While I am intentionally making it sound dumb, ask him for the official logic of it, and then you'll see my intentional misrepresentation isn't actually more absurd, and has the added benefit of humor, whereas the people who believe they have discovered a magic 'get out of jail free card' are entirely serious.)

the joint

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Quote from: jaysabi on June 01, 2015, 02:28:00 PM

When you post garabage about your common law fantasy, you look even sillier than when you're trying to keep all your religious nonsense straight.

Is this related to that "Freeman on the Land" garbage I've seen when people make complete fools of themselves in court and post it on YouTube as a win?

jaysabi

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When you post garabage about your common law fantasy, you look even sillier than when you're trying to keep all your religious nonsense straight.

BADecker

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Quote from: the joint on June 01, 2015, 11:54:39 AM

Quote from: BADecker on June 01, 2015, 07:21:08 AM

Quote from: amazon4u on May 31, 2015, 05:19:03 PM

Quote from: BADecker on June 01, 2015, 07:21:08 AM

Since the evidence for the existence of God is way stronger than the evidence against His existence, any "blind" faith that that exists will be much blinder regarding God not existing.

There is no evidence except logical or mathematical. Nothing you've posted is evidence, it's simply your opinion(and it's all very wrong). Just stop.

Now don't go off and suicide yourself just because you can't stand being wrong anymore. Rather, turn to God. He is merciful and loving. He'll be happy to have you join with him.

Lips sealed

Sure, go join with him...make some donations to the church...God doesn't want you dead he wants you as a contributor, he loves you... he's almighty , all-knowing but somehow he can't handle money....He always needs money...

Money isn't very tasty.

That's why you get rid of your money as fast as you make it... buying food, etc.

Since God is the formulator of everything that the food, etc., comes from and is made out of, you are essentially giving your money to God just to live and have enjoyment in this life.

Honor God with your money, and your heartfelt thanks, and He will reward you even more.

I'll just repost this for the giggles:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10754502

From http://www.unkommonlaw.co.uk/:

Quote

Sick of taking Orders and earning no money from complying with the Orders?

Buy an Invoice Pad today, to BILL the next Public SERVANT that Orders thou [You] !

(thou = singular cf. Ye - Nominative / You - Objective which are Plurals... i will explain later)

Example:

When A[NY] Public SERVANT stops thou at the side of the road and Orders a PERFORMANCE of and/or from thou by way of the use of His (or Her) Voice, these UTTERANCES are defined as HIS (or HER) Wishes AND Orders delivered upon thou (placing a Burden Upon thou!)

Example(s) :

ORDERS thou as a [wo]man to get out of YOUR car !
ORDERS thou, as a [wo]man to "GIVE-UP" up his or her "GIVEN-name"!
ORDERS thou, as a [wo]man to perform ANY task (such as hand-over a Licence)!
et ceteras, et cetaras, et ceteras...

Deliever Upon HIM (or HER) a BILL (an INVOICE) !

(BILL / INVOICE: c. 1400; that of "order to pay" ( technically 'Bill of Exchange' is from 1570s)

Example:

When "HE" or "SHE" ( a Public Servant) makes their WISHES to perform known and ORDER(s) Upon thou ( a man or woman) make sure to require of Him or Her to remember "Fair-and-Just" COMPENSATION, is now due for carrying-out His or Her Wishes and ORDER(s)!

So then in my common law court, once I have the judgement for the man [cop] to pay me his bond for all the orders he gave me and I filled, he won't be able to afford a new bond, so he will lose his job.

They'll still let him go to church. After all, his wife will pay his tithes out of whatever earnings she gets.

Cheesy

the joint

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Quote from: amazon4u on May 31, 2015, 05:19:03 PM

Quote from: amazon4u on May 31, 2015, 05:19:03 PM

Since the evidence for the existence of God is way stronger than the evidence against His existence, any "blind" faith that that exists will be much blinder regarding God not existing.

There is no evidence except logical or mathematical. Nothing you've posted is evidence, it's simply your opinion(and it's all very wrong). Just stop.

Now don't go off and suicide yourself just because you can't stand being wrong anymore. Rather, turn to God. He is merciful and loving. He'll be happy to have you join with him.

Lips sealed

Sure, go join with him...make some donations to the church...God doesn't want you dead he wants you as a contributor, he loves you... he's almighty , all-knowing but somehow he can't handle money....He always needs money...

Money isn't very tasty.

That's why you get rid of your money as fast as you make it... buying food, etc.

Since God is the formulator of everything that the food, etc., comes from and is made out of, you are essentially giving your money to God just to live and have enjoyment in this life.

Honor God with your money, and your heartfelt thanks, and He will reward you even more.

I'll just repost this for the giggles:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10754502

Pentax

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I can't tell the difference between ABC News, Hill Street Blues
And a preacher on the old time gospel hour
Stealing money from the sick and the old
Well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!

-U2 From the "Rattle and Hum" Album

BADecker

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Since the evidence for the existence of God is way stronger than the evidence against His existence, any "blind" faith that that exists will be much blinder regarding God not existing.

There is no evidence except logical or mathematical. Nothing you've posted is evidence, it's simply your opinion(and it's all very wrong). Just stop.

Now don't go off and suicide yourself just because you can't stand being wrong anymore. Rather, turn to God. He is merciful and loving. He'll be happy to have you join with him.

Lips sealed

Sure, go join with him...make some donations to the church...God doesn't want you dead he wants you as a contributor, he loves you... he's almighty , all-knowing but somehow he can't handle money....He always needs money...

Money isn't very tasty.

That's why you get rid of your money as fast as you make it... buying food, etc.

Since God is the formulator of everything that the food, etc., comes from and is made out of, you are essentially giving your money to God just to live and have enjoyment in this life.

Honor God with your money, and your heartfelt thanks, and He will reward you even more.

amazon4u

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