Topic: Why do people hate islam? - page 93. (Read 221036 times)

My construct was precise, and it's based off of what religions, particularly the "big three", claim

I'll make it more explicit, with a bit of commentary before hand.
I am what is sometimes called a "soft" or "weak" atheist. I do not like those terms, as there is nothing soft nor weak about my position. I actually think the so called "strong" or "positive" atheist has the weaker position. To wit: I do not claim there is no god, I assert without reservation that I believe in no gods. None. Not yours, his, or that weirdo over there. Just as you are an atheist in reference to zeus, apollo, chtulu, whatever. I just belive in one less than you. Because logic dictates that for the religious claims to be true, certain preconditions must be met.

they have not. .

Religious Axiom One: There is a god.

Religious Axiom Two. The presupposed god wishes to be worshipped.

Religious Axiom Three. The presupposed god is omnipotent.

With just these three common religious assumptions (which most religious people take as axiomatic) the whole thing falls apart.

there is no unambiguous evidence that a god or gods exist. One can't disprove a negative, of course, so this in itself does not disprove these religious sentiments.
However, the next two render your answer impossible. If your god is both desiring to be worshipped AND omnipotent, there could not be any "fake" religions. There could only be one, because such a being would not be hidden.

And this is just the beginning. It doesn't address the questions of evil, suffering, social disparity, none of that. And the deeper you dig, the worse it gets. For perspective, I used to be a very religious man. I do not speak from ignorance, I am formerly an ordained minister. Not your religion, but Christianity. I have studied the bible in depth, and could (and have) argue it's merits and deficiencies with just about any well educated minister, cardinal, what have you. I am not as well versed in Islam, as I was born where it holds little sway. (which, by the by, strengthens my argument above). What exposure I have had to Islam tells me two things that matter.

One. Islam is just as internally contradictory as Christianity.
Two. This makes it just as false.

I am not denying logic. In theism-atheism case, logic will vary from person to person but some matches. It's hard to come to a conclusion and to tell that is logic.

One true religion but there can be more if there are fake religions.

Do you theists realize that you do more to disprove religion in your discourse than any atheist ever could? We proceed from logic. You deny it.

If there were a god AND this god wanted to be worshipped, AND it was all powerful, there would be precisely how many religions and how much ambiguity and sectarianism?

It is Riddah. What I am saying is about leaving Islam. Riddah is a different thing than just leaving Islam. There are different punishments for Riddah but not death penalty AFAIK except maybe in newly created religion.


It is not various areas. After death of prophet, some people started to create new group-like which spread wrong beliefs and/or wrong rules such as Salafi, Mujahid Islam etc...

Really?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/05/16/international-outrage-grows-for-sudanese-woman-sentenced-to-death-for-apostasy/

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/africa/2014/12/25/Muslim-sentenced-to-death-in-Mauritania-for-apostasy-Judicial-source-.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Mohammed_Taha

    Shortly before the appointed time, Mahmoud Muhammad Taha was led into the courtyard. The condemned man, his hands tied behind him, was smaller than I expected him to be, and from where I sat, as his guards hustled him along, he looked younger than his seventy-six years. He held his head high and stared silently into the crowd. When they saw him, many in the crowd leaped to their feet, jeering and shaking their fists at him. A few waved their Korans in the air. I managed to catch only a glimpse of Taha’s face before the executioner placed an oatmeal-colored sack over his head and body, but I shall never forget his expression: His eyes were defiant; his mouth firm. He showed no hint of fear.[1]

Despite the smallness of his group of supporters (the Republican Brothers), thousands of demonstrators protested his execution and police on horseback used bullwhips to drive back the crowd.[8] The body was secretly buried.[10]

The President/military dictator at the time Gaafar Nimeiry was overthrown by popular uprising four months later, the execution thought to be a contributing factor. The date of his execution, January 18th, later became Arab Human Rights Day.

Would you agree with this comment?

But in truth the western world’s railings against honour killings, death sentences for apostates, murderous fatwas, clitorectomy, Islamism in all its manifestations from al-Qa’eda to Boko Haram, are virtually nowhere echoed in the Islamic world itself. Good citizens of Muslim allegiance and vaguely moderating organisations like the Muslim Council of Britain are called in to the media microphones to distance ‘true’ Islam from the categories of barbarism. But they are a tiny western-dwelling elite, living in a part of the world informed for a couple of thousand years by the values of Hellenism and Judaeo-Christianity. They are profoundly alien to the Muslim world.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9225151/witness-to-a-stoning/

Please remember when you reply, that you are conversing with an infidel, a koffer, an atheist.  I only debate from first principles, and therefore responding with quotes from old books is not a valid defense of a practice such as stoning, or death for apostasy. 

It's probable there are vast differences in the practice of Islam in various areas.

But that's all the more reason one should not attempt to speak "For All Islam."

so what you want to say? As im muslim and never listened/ heard read anywhere that there is Any punishment for those who leave thew Islam as his/her religion.

Yes, I'm letting everyone know you're lying to protect your faith. I'm sure most people here have long figured that out, but an occasional reminder can't hurt.

After all:

Are you sure? I'm no expert but punishment for leaving Islam seems to practiced and preached quite a bit though many liberal muslims obviously tend not to believe in it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

It is not a punishment, it is a rule when Muslims can lie to protect their faith but *only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory*.

* Copied from wiki as it is well phrased.

Taqiya

I have said number of times there is no punishment if someone leave Islam in Islam.

So...


In a Muslim society, are thieves who get their hand cut off Muslim?  Are women who are stoned to death Muslim?  In a Muslim society, is a murderer Muslim?  A rapist?
 
None of these are banned from Islam, in fact aren't they guilty of a serious crime if they LEAVE ISLAM?  If so how can someone say they are not Muslim.

So how could someone claim that a terrorist was not Muslim.

Muslims do that too. They just beat them to death first before they set them on fire:

"Victim: Farkhunda, 27, was pushed from a roof, run over by a car and set on fire before her body was thrown in the Kabul River - in full view of several policeman - last Thursday"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3008987/Afghan-woman-beaten-death-streets-murdered-dared-speak-against-superstitious-mullah-NOT-burned-Koran.html

REHMAT ?


Rehmat means blessing!!!!
[/quote]

Good to hear you...
In my opinion the terrorists are not muslims and even they are not human as well

Islam teach us a lesson of humanity.....

For your kind information...

Before Islam womens were burnt alive just for the sake that they are womens...

Islam tell People that the womens and Girls are REHMAT for home...
Read History of Islam before u speak
[/quote]

REHMAT ?

I agree with you. His statement is quite hilarious. Islam in it's intended form doesn't give many rights to women thought theuir adherents seem to be delusioned that it does. Women can't do many things in many Muslim countries and they are treated like second class citizens as if men somehow have dominion over them.
[/quote]

For your kind information...

Before Islam womens were burnt alive just for the sake that they are womens...

Islam tell People that the womens and Girls are REHMAT for home...
Read History of Islam before u speak

I will remain skeptical about these matters, although I understand and respect that others believe them.

But we have several on this thread who say something like "If a person is terrorist, he is not Muslim."   That was what I was questioning.  I do not think one can post facto of a terrorist act claim those who did it were not muslims. 

From your reply I seem to get that they are Muslims, although very, very, very imperfect Muslims.  But I would like a more detailed perspective on this.

I agree with you. His statement is quite hilarious. Islam in it's intended form doesn't give many rights to women thought theuir adherents seem to be delusioned that it does. Women can't do many things in many Muslim countries and they are treated like second class citizens as if men somehow have dominion over them.