Topic: Why is using 51% hashing power stronger than using 51% of the people? - page 2. (Read 786 times)

baby swapping in the neonatal unit of a hospital
claiming a still-born child didnt die
kidnapping
'you look nothing like your baby photo'
plastic surgery
facial injury

compare that to the simplicity of the maths of hashing. and hashing is more secure.. as the title of this topic asks

...
all this being said. i personally would have preferred an economy based on people accumulating wealth through life rather than credit agreements and mortgages creating money. or speculating value based on emotion of an asset.

i a few years back ran through scenarios of instead of mortgages/credit agreements creating 'value' the education system would. where test results of students = new money. which is then exchanged with employers/unlocked at grauation. to both re imburse the education system but also give the ex-student access to their funds

but that said this topic asks which is more secure. and maths of hashing is more secure then the numerous loopholes between physical and digital

There is no mining in my system, there is addresses that accumulate duration coins over time, back trackable to the day you were born if we can get birthdays from a birth cert. So if one guy signs up today and one guy signs up in a year it does not matter to their accumulation of duration. Currently the system just starts biased off when you sign up on this guys site www.bitswift.cash (still better than fiat)
We already do
We already do




see the 4th image https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/time-fiat-bitcoin-gold-5151153 I can explain blockPOP (PROOF OF PERSON/POPULATION) more if you want https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-20-attention-all-alt-coin-devs-unite-if-you-are-willing-5141142

We can verify someone with file uploading.
1 fingerprint = 1 address
no fingers?
1 faceprint = 1 address
no face? don`t worry I got over 30 ways to verify you through file sharing.

We can even make them do fingerprint or iris captcha`s  (live streamed into the blockchain)

hashing is just hashing. its maths. meaning less avenues of attack or abuse.

but when you start requiring the mining to also be dependant on identification. theres a new avenue
but when you start requiring the identification to be dependant on a human. theres a new avenue
but when you start requiring the human to provably perform a task. theres a new avenue

Frank what is the difference between what we have now? and what we have now on a blockchain? LOL

this is why 'people power' is not as strong as hashing power.   the digital/biological divide has too many loopholes of abuse

So my brother is sleeping atm, but I would have him come on cam and be like yah this is Michael yada yada yada, I known him my whole life and worked on a farm with him for 20+ years, etc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySvcUDimAk0 Get a video with my doctor, yah this is my patient Mike yada yada yada or dentist. It will really help to tap into the medical systems, but not necessarily needed. I mean I would do it if I could.

I trust a video document of someone giving birth locked into a blockchain on video or even afterbirth the kids eyes and or fingerprint in the blockchain. Honestly fingerprint should be enough.

I will tell you why fingerprint is better than eyescan, and it is because of shit like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eenscggz-Pk granted this is a meme video, but having things like your face and eyes for facebook to have is dangerous, anyone can take a database of people and light them up with drones with cams and guns on them. You can just wear gloves to hide your fingerprints, granted some people have no hands we are going to have to use a picture of their eyes and face but who is going to use the drones to just kill people with no hands. I don`t see it.

Most people do not realize those street cams are logging our faces and eyes anyways. This is what they have if not better already.|

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkw15LkZ_Kw China’s "Social Credit System" Has Caused More Than Just Public Shaming (HBO)
It is coming here you won`t be able to buy a bus ticket because your bad credit score or a plane ticket.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNf4-d6fDoY China: "the world's biggest camera surveillance network" - BBC News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yKga54tx6U China's surveillance cameras can recognize you

They already link you to social media stuff I bet, your car to your face to your online profile to your medical records to your police records, everything is exposed.

I am going to start wearing a full burqa.

witness to photo is usually getting someone known to the person for a long enough time, where the witness hold employment in a role that shows they are less likely to make a false claim as it would hurt their own reputation.

its not simply find 5-1000 strangers and just say 'my names frank, sign this to say you know im frank'

we are already seeing that voting and passports are based on more of a honour system of combining several sources of documentation make a strong case that the id is legit. but still not 100% 'proof' which is where some false voting, fake passports and such still occur.

so dont treat the ability of creating ID as something easy and effortless and something to brush under the carpet, as its the ID part that is actually the hardest part to document/allocate compared to transaction data of labour.

in short making a 'time' ledger is easy. having it public/privately key secured to an ID is easy. but to allocate and lock it to a physical human securely (digital to analog) is the hard part.

now imagine you had the perfect way to link digital to biological. whats next. proof biological done the task.
say its some education where students earn upto 100 credits for passing a test. %pass=credit
we already see teacher give students second chances to re-test. we see teachers only teach kids enough to answer the test and not real life meaningful lessons. theres even cases where teachers sit with students and hint at the answers

same with commissioned employment like car sales. if a sales men gets 100 credits per car sold on computer they show they sold 10 cars. but physically the salesmen are telling customers to buy car on lease and use it for 2 weeks and the return car using a no questions returns policy. thus free rental. but as stated digitally it appears as a car sale.

Well in the case where something changes, it will be documented and updated to your chain and address. We can make digital passports quite easy with file sharing and digital birth certs combined into the same system. It is not like everything is set in stone, just like with other documents. If the network agrees or the assigned let`s say 1000 random people for blockCOURT (still better than 1). Things can be changed in the system by the community and participants in the system.

There will be even be problems let us say with like conjoint twins, are they one or two people, same eyes, or same fingerprints possibly? or people with no hands for fingerprints etc etc, I am sure I can come up with a work around for every single case in humans. (they already do in the current system).

There will need to be physicality`s put up in all the major city`s to get people into the system slowly and properly (people joining late get a back cap on the duration they missed, from birth) But as home cams/phone cams get better I am sure everyone can do everything from home soon. (the entire network will be there to witness).

i don't have issues with that. what gave you the impression otherwise? this is the issue at hand:

i don't know what protocols you're talking about but clearly bitcoin doesn't fit that description.


the consensus opinion seems to be that ECDSA would be broken by QC long before that. and that may be decades away as it is. we have much bigger fish to fry than such theoretical problems. bitcoin seeks to solve the double spending problem, not secure money from decades-out theoretical quantum computing problems.

1. and as you get older you get cataracts and suddenly the funds you saved for retirement you cant access
2. and as you get older you cut ur finger from paper cuts or work as a janitor using harmful chemicals, bye bye fingerprint

some even envision DNA as a identity. but with the whole new disruptive science community working on stem cells and dna cures using virals, DNA can change too

this is why passports dont rely on just retina scans but use 'witnesses' to a photo, signed documents like birth certificates, retina, and others COMBINED to reduce the chance of faking a passport.

And like I said earlier, many PoS coins have also not updated checkpoints in years.

You make the point , years old checkpoints don't affect the security model,
so by that standard you should have no issues with a PoS coin that has years old checkpoint.

If you do , you are not being honest with yourself.

But the year old checkpoints do affect security, making sure no quantum computer can come along and rewrite the blockchain all the way to the genesis block, as their true potential is years from being fully understood.

Recent BTC devs don't improve bitcoin, they improve LN, as they see it as the future not BTC.
Satoshi saw the future with Onchain Bitcoin, not LN's Offchain Banking.
Bitcoin was to remove the banking middlemen , LN is nothing but middlemen.

yes. satoshi wasn't a god. he may have been a visionary re bitcoin's economic design, but he wasn't a great coder and some of his ideas were naïve or just flat out wrong. i'm glad we have a developer community that is far more robust and capable now.


it's not that simple. here is some discussion of the issue:
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/70824

and some discussion of why checkpoints were used in the first place (hint, not what you think):
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/75735


years-old checkpoints don't affect the security model. as stated earlier, i don't care what happened in the early days when bitcoin was worth very little and the development process was highly centralized.

So you are saying you disagree with Satoshi.

5 years or 1 day, programed coded checkpoints are there,
and if the btc devs were really serious, they would have removed them instead of just not adding more.

So until you petition to have them removed, bitcoin uses checkpoint exactly the same as most PoS coins.  
As their are many PoS coins that have also not updated their checkpoints in recent years.  

bitcoin (like most small altcoins) was highly centralized early on. satoshi even hard forked bitcoin in the very early days. that doesn't mean a successful hard fork is possible today.

FYI, no centralized checkpoint has been hard coded into the client in ~5 years, and the consensus is to never add them again and in fact to remove the previous checkpoints if possible in the future.

i don't view bitcoin as some immaculate conception situation, lol. the early client was coded horribly, the early development process was very centralized. that doesn't mean we need to embrace these mistakes.

I think everyone has already lol, they are all driving cars on artificial gas, not even the fumes of real gas, just on the blood, sweat and tears of real working people.

Those people will be coming for heads I tell yah what, pretty soon. Read some of the comments, youtube: ROTHSCHILD DEATH AND READ THE COMMENTS ON ANY VIDEO!

I do not dance with these comments, I think it is sad when any being dies, I pray every time I step on ant by accident, say sorry to the ant and ask to become the ant I killed. I made a system, kind of well a theory of one that can fix everything please look into it. So no one has to die.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/time-fiat-bitcoin-gold-5151153 (time stuff)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-20-attention-all-alt-coin-devs-unite-if-you-are-willing-5141142 (bitcoin 2.0)(not bitcoin2 wtf that is)

People will lose faith of overinflated fiat first before they destroy bitcoin using the strategy you pointed out.

Two ways to fuck btc over by them.

1)Print a shit load of money, buy a bunch of btc, sell at a loss to make btc price in fiat 0 or low, so people lose faith in it.
2)Print a shit load of money, buy a bunch of asic farms, control the network and fuck it over, so people lose faith in it. (they can move to whatever chain you do with their hashing power)

The incentive is that fiat wins, bitcoin dies, they control the market of markets again. #ENDTHEFED #STOPALLFIAT

anyways can we all agree time > fiat https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/time-fiat-bitcoin-gold-5151153 thanks!
everyone making the supply > a few people
everyone voting > a few people
everyone have a job > a few people
everyone owns the equal the same amount of hashing power > a few people

You do realize Bitcoin has software coded checkpoints, added by it developers.  
So does that ruin bitcoin for you?

FYI: http://archive.is/dEZ35

Satoshi promoted software coded checkpoints with client updates.  

Checkpoints added this way do nothing , but make long range attacks impossible.

You are confusing that type of checkpoint with a checkpoint server,  that actually determines which blocks were valid and allowed, very few devs use a checkpoint server as no one denies it is centralized control.

But the way the majority of PoS devs and satoshi did it with program coded checkpoints, does nothing more than block long range attacks without giving the devs the ability to control the future blocks acceptance or rejection.

@Khaos77: you misread the post, which said in POW blockchains, nodes validate back to the genesis block---not that a 51% attacker can actually roll back to the genesis block. even aside from centralized checkpoints, the point is that POW (at least with a network as secure as bitcoin) implies great costs to "roll back" the chain. the further an attacker tries to roll back, the greater the cost because they must mine a longer chain than honest miners.

if your protocol depends on developers adding checkpoints, you don't have decentralized consensus. there is little point in using a blockchain at all. the developers are enforcing the blockchain state, not the economic incentives intended to overcome the byzantine generals problem.


maybe you could walk us through an example? how would this work, and what are the incentives at play?

In that case , owning a few PoS coins to profit from a fed burn attempt might be very profitable.  

* It be easier & cheaper for the FED to just get their corrupt government officials to outlaw all crypto like
INDIA is proposing.*
https://www.coindesk.com/reserve-bank-of-india-denies-involvement-in-draft-bill-to-ban-cryptocurrencies