Topic: Why is using 51% hashing power stronger than using 51% of the people? - page 3. (Read 760 times)

The FED and there is a point, so bitcoin dies and fiat wins.

If the attacker only blocks all new transactions from entering the blockchain,
he freezes the blockchain.

Restoring to an old checkpoint can not defend against this version of attack in a PoW network.

Only by using the bitcoin client to censor the dangerous parties would work,
but by doing so you destroy any pretense of being decentralized,
and determined who may or may not mine future blocks, the ultimate control.

^ You all assume the attacker wants something to do with bitcoin after the ATTACK or ATTACKS, reroll or regorg to a old checkpoint, they put the hashing power on that chain. RIP AGAIN.

Let us make the assumption instead of the person wanting bitcoin after, they don`t. Let us also make the assumption the person has enough money to take 51% of the hashing power of any network.

Sorry you are mistaken,

The odds of any Long range back to genesis blocks attacks are impossible in PoW or PoS,
due to the checkpoints included in both the PoW & PoS clients,
all devs add program coded checkpoints to their latest wallet updates.
Making any 51% attack all the way back to the genesis block IMPOSSIBLE.

However Short range 51% attacks are possible against PoW or PoS if you have the mining or staking power.

Some PoS coins have a rolling checkpoint, which only means reorgs are not permitted past a certain block #,
ie: Blackcoin, only allows reorgs back 500 blocks, after that 500 blocks , you can't reorg even if you had 95% of the staking power.

PoW bitcoin does not use rolling checkpoints and in theory could rewrite up to the last checkpoint in the bitcoin client. However that is impractical and unnecessary, because a sustained 51% attack can freeze all new transactions, which if your goal was to destroy bitcoin, that would easily accomplish it.
It would take the top 4 bitcoin mining pools to accomplish that, but in doing so they destroy their business.

In PoS, Coin-Age is a factor and it can offset staking power by being a multiplier of lower staking power,
due to the fact all PoS coins enter a dormant state, (depending on the specs) of 30 days, 20 days or 24 hours or 2 hours, during this dormant state, the dominant group would need much greater that 51% Collusion and they would still not be able to block all transactions like in a bitcoin PoW network.
(Due to the dormant period all staking % are always in flux and never static like in PoW)
One question arises, who would be stupid enough to spend millions of dollars to dominate a PoS network just so they can attempt to destroy it, it would be the same as getting all of your money and setting it on fire, no real point.

FYI:
PoS is a Cooperative form of Consensus ,
where you need others to help keep the chain moving and secure , by staking with high coin age.

PoW is a Combative form of Consensus ,
where the elite few dominate the non-elite majority.
 

Ideally it would be nice to connect to the healthcare systems so we can tie into some birth certs and other data.

You cannot do a live fingerprint captcha, eye captcha (video live stream and not be the person there). If a amazing video editor even created a fake person we could check the birth cert to it.

If someone has already registered there eye/finger or kyc, The system will check the existence database and see it is a copy and will not allow a duplicate account to be created. The community of the network would verify. See blockCOURT https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-20-attention-all-alt-coin-devs-unite-if-you-are-willing-5141142

Let me make a video for you for example for when this happens (I could do it on a live stream) and blockcourt needs to get involved (the system would be able to do this normally but lets say someone does register before I can with my data), brb

https://youtu.be/ySvcUDimAk0

But there are already large numbers of companies and governments that have large quantities of fingerprints, eye scans, and IDs, plus anyone who steals any of these can create many accounts, and who is going to verify which account for a person is real?

This could work, but you would need the nodes to regularly solve problems that only humans are known to be able to solve. That would prove there's a man in the loop, and would eliminate the risk of a botnet.

I mean if you are going to make a money supply, make it fair or KYS!

I think you are all missing the point the attacker (fed banker) could not give a shit about bitcoin or money profit and be a billionaire/trillionaire already, and ruin the network for the rest of us. So there money supply FIAT can prevail in the markets. (what will you do when they have 51% of the hashing power) START ANOTHER CHAIN? THEY WILL FUCK THAT ONE AS WELL!

You all assume the attacker wants something to do with bitcoin after the ATTACK. Ever seen a JIHAD bomber?

:THINKING:

No point somewhere in the whitepaper that bitcoin is created to be an equalizer for the rich and the poor, only a tool to help people be their own banks and a digital currency at best. If this is about equality, you must be on the wrong universe, my friend.


Nice try explaining this but honestly, Sally wouldn't be able to do what she wants to do in the long run if those 99 people left the gym and she has no one to play with. Having said that, in bitcoin, if someone went insane and has 51% of the hashing power and tried to fuck with the network, most people would surely dump before huge changes are made in the blockchain. By then, the 51% attack would be rendered useless because the coins are essentially worthless since everyone left.


Well at some point in time, some asshole had it, but decided not to because they know what the results of their action will be.


Exactly.

I also think miners will not accept a 51% atack on bitcoin network, you can't use people for mining bitcoin, because bitcoin already has and algorithm and only ASIC miners can mine bitcoin.

I think a 51% attack is impossible for global networks like Bitcoin. Nobody can hold that kind of power alone.

In addition, even if this attack is carried out on a network like Bitcoin, everyone will lose it, including the attacker! So for Bitcoin, I think we can close the matter completely. In other networks, the right ones will reach the same situation in the future.

Bitcoin isn't a voting system. Having 51% of the hashrate does not mean that you get to dictate what happens on the blockchain or in Bitcoin.

in the context of 51% attacks (and that's really the only relevant context), it's not.

with POW, nodes validate back to the genesis block. in order to "roll back" transactions, a 51% attacker must build a longer chain. this has huge financial costs.

with POS, these costs don't exist. once an attacker achieves 51% of the stake, they control the entire history of the blockchain. they could in fact erase the blockchain and all inputs at no additional cost.

as others have pointed out, 51% "of the people" can't be measured in an online system, but i thought maybe this was heading towards a discussion of POS consensus.

But it is really possible that one person can own or control or influence 51% of the hashing power? I love your analogy except that in the real world it rarely happens maybe except if Sally is the owner of the basketball gym but in that case the other 99 can just get out of the gym and play whatever they want. Again, except if Sally own the minds of the other 99 and she can program them as robots.

We have 100 people in a gym.

Sally has 51% of the hashing power and wants to play basketball (shes a rich bitch) this girl on my left

The other 99 people have 49% of the hashing power and want to play soccer

GG WP, great because of 1 fuck we are stuck playing basketball.



THANKS SALLY!

Obviously hastage power is very strong here. 51% people is not very important here, important is their honesty in their work. But in hastage 51%, it has 100% honesty by blockchain if we input correctly. It is totally impossible to dishonesty in blockchain by hastage to here 51% hastage is more stronger than 51% people.

Inb4 no more dead people voting and hacked elections. (wait there is no elections?) people just vote on issues and get paid for it? They vote where the tax funds go WOW  and they get paid for it? WOW 

Because the network will work as the miners decide it work, if 51% of the miners decide to change their code to make the network works differently it will change because the network gives the order to work that way, but if  51% of the users take some decision to change the network, they need the miners to apply this change, without them it would be impossible.

yes, my point exactly, the rich get richer in the future with bitcoin, also there is no future for the people born after 2045, they don`t get a chance to mine! What kind of distribution is that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYJVG1fKnRo this is the future of that world, I played in it, killed the king twice (who was AI hacker) made 4 bitcoin in a few clicks.
SPOILER: EVERYONE DIES, EVEN THE LAST TRIBE KILLS ITSELF,  SPOILER: LIFE IS A BLOCKCHAIN, MY ACTIONS LOCKED IN TIME IN THAT BLOCKCHAIN

huntercoin was a human mineable crypto like a gold/bitcoin simulation, then bots took over.

Now, What if there was a way to do it by address rather than number of machines and how powerful the machines are?       Insuring only 1 address can be created per person      

The blockchain stores the IDs

I will go more in depth in this post, keep in mind I am just a random pro gamer/farmer I am not a coder so I really need your help achow101, I am not affiliated with ardor or bitswift other than being on of them`s little brother who really likes the concepts of everyone making the money and everyone voting on where their taxes go.

Person creates a unnamed coin address, in order to make one they upload a picture of themselves, gov id, eyes, fingerprint.
The system checks to make sure there is no duplicates using back track.

from then this happens.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/time-fiat-bitcoin-gold-5151153 (look at the 3rd pic down and 4th pic)

I can explain better on voice, I think this is the future brother. I know you can make it better then a farm boy who dropped out of school in grade 3, achow101
do not do it for self profit, do it for the profit of all of humanity and it will come out great, think what world do you want your kids in? one where they are working for another mans money supply, voting people to vote for them or one where they can vote, they make the money supply, equally (until people enterprise and get more)