Topic: Why Socialism is the key - page 14. (Read 33160 times)
I lived in socialism, before changes people smiled, almost everyone had work, people was happy. And now..? Older generation is disillusioned, younger generation embraced new "values". Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I would think differently if I never felt socialism and I have 18 years old again.
I think there is a problem here. Most of you think that it's not good to see the state controlling things. I'm ok with that.
But if the state isn't in control, how do you ensure that the companies won't take the control?
That's exactly what's currently happening in our world.
Look at the multinational corporations! Look at food industry, Google, Apple...
Yeah freedom is better, but I'd rather see my freedom reduces by the government than by the companies!
But if the state isn't in control, how do you ensure that the companies won't take the control?
That's exactly what's currently happening in our world.
Look at the multinational corporations! Look at food industry, Google, Apple...
Yeah freedom is better, but I'd rather see my freedom reduces by the government than by the companies!
Both have pros and cons, companies act logically in some ways and will adapt well. Govs can act illogically but can also provide some moral protection. Really depends on your life, your age and the situation.
Yeah of course if your in your 50's and have already succeeded in life no reason to go for socialism!
Which is also why old people shouldn't have the same weight while voting...
Hmm... I understand your love for the Venus project but the problem with it is we still don't have a technology that can produce sustainable energy. So you just can't do it.
Not for now, but we have a lot to learn and to improve ourselves as society.
Technology will come but what will happen if we are not ready yet?
We all wasting our precious time, we could be more creative and useful if we stop working for money..
This economic system killing everything human within.
We are still in dark ages if you look at whole picture.
Wars, hunger, hate, religions , money , blood..
Which is why it's important to maintain a direct democracy, avoiding a small elite to take control of socialist principle and thus restauring the "good old communism" as you say 
Yes but democracy is nothing more than a shield for free market economy,which destroying whole world with greed for power and resources.
This is why we must implement some principles from socialism to democracy.
Family, workers, kids, must be protected from greed of bankers and multinational corporations.
Only mixing few elements from democracy and socialism we can find nearly perfect system for today people needs.
If you ask me i'm ready for Venus project, and resources based economy.
Hmm... I understand your love for the Venus project but the problem with it is we still don't have a technology that can produce sustainable energy. So you just can't do it.
Which is why it's important to maintain a direct democracy, avoiding a small elite to take control of socialist principle and thus restauring the "good old communism" as you say
Yes but democracy is nothing more than a shield for free market economy,which destroying whole world with greed for power and resources.
This is why we must implement some principles from socialism to democracy.
Family, workers, kids, must be protected from greed of bankers and multinational corporations.
Only mixing few elements from democracy and socialism we can find nearly perfect system for today people needs.
If you ask me i'm ready for Venus project, and resources based economy.
I think there is a problem here. Most of you think that it's not good to see the state controlling things. I'm ok with that.
But if the state isn't in control, how do you ensure that the companies won't take the control?
That's exactly what's currently happening in our world.
Look at the multinational corporations! Look at food industry, Google, Apple...
Yeah freedom is better, but I'd rather see my freedom reduces by the government than by the companies!
But if the state isn't in control, how do you ensure that the companies won't take the control?
That's exactly what's currently happening in our world.
Look at the multinational corporations! Look at food industry, Google, Apple...
Yeah freedom is better, but I'd rather see my freedom reduces by the government than by the companies!
Both have pros and cons, companies act logically in some ways and will adapt well. Govs can act illogically but can also provide some moral protection. Really depends on your life, your age and the situation.
It's incredible, truly amazing how Americans have been totally brainwashed by capitalism.
Capitalists did indeed an AMAZING job here.
People are actually defending them... And with incredible violence and agressivity. They don't even understand how they've become slaves.
Capitalists did indeed an AMAZING job here.
People are actually defending them... And with incredible violence and agressivity. They don't even understand how they've become slaves.
A slave has limited freedom, limited personal property rights, and is not allowed to keep what he works for.
He also believes that he should "keep his place" and that he is not important as an individual.
Sounds like someone living in a socialist country.
Sigh...
You're for a country of liberty of "opportunity"...
But liberty of opportunity is useless if you don't give people the means to use it!
What you want to do is to let everyone do whatever they want.
But if you do this, there is NO REASON for rich families to make sure poor people will have the chance to get an education.
It would simply make it easier for everyone to keep the poors under the water that's all.
Libertarian economy is simply Anarchy. And Anarchy is the rule of the strongest.
You're for a country of liberty of "opportunity"...
But liberty of opportunity is useless if you don't give people the means to use it!
What you want to do is to let everyone do whatever they want.
But if you do this, there is NO REASON for rich families to make sure poor people will have the chance to get an education.
It would simply make it easier for everyone to keep the poors under the water that's all.
Libertarian economy is simply Anarchy. And Anarchy is the rule of the strongest.
I`m not denying that, however, the strongest ones can lift up the weak ones too.
You can create green energy, abundance of necessities at cheap price, great inventions that help humanity progress and make it better for everyone.
Or you can build atomic bombs and war machines.
Both systems are ruled by the strongest, but I ask you which one is more preferable for humanity??
Yeah sure. And I'm the one living up in my dream?
I prefer a socialist direct democracy for a simple reason: the weaks ones are the most numerous, and direct democracy compensate this weakness.
Sigh...
You're for a country of liberty of "opportunity"...
But liberty of opportunity is useless if you don't give people the means to use it!
What you want to do is to let everyone do whatever they want.
But if you do this, there is NO REASON for rich families to make sure poor people will have the chance to get an education.
It would simply make it easier for everyone to keep the poors under the water that's all.
Libertarian economy is simply Anarchy. And Anarchy is the rule of the strongest.
You're for a country of liberty of "opportunity"...
But liberty of opportunity is useless if you don't give people the means to use it!
What you want to do is to let everyone do whatever they want.
But if you do this, there is NO REASON for rich families to make sure poor people will have the chance to get an education.
It would simply make it easier for everyone to keep the poors under the water that's all.
Libertarian economy is simply Anarchy. And Anarchy is the rule of the strongest.
I`m not denying that, however, the strongest ones can lift up the weak ones too.
You can create green energy, abundance of necessities at cheap price, great inventions that help humanity progress and make it better for everyone.
Or you can build atomic bombs and war machines.
Both systems are ruled by the strongest, but I ask you which one is more preferable for humanity??
Sigh...
You're for a country of liberty of "opportunity"...
But liberty of opportunity is useless if you don't give people the means to use it!
What you want to do is to let everyone do whatever they want.
But if you do this, there is NO REASON for rich families to make sure poor people will have the chance to get an education.
It would simply make it easier for everyone to keep the poors under the water that's all.
Libertarian economy is simply Anarchy. And Anarchy is the rule of the strongest.
You're for a country of liberty of "opportunity"...
But liberty of opportunity is useless if you don't give people the means to use it!
What you want to do is to let everyone do whatever they want.
But if you do this, there is NO REASON for rich families to make sure poor people will have the chance to get an education.
It would simply make it easier for everyone to keep the poors under the water that's all.
Libertarian economy is simply Anarchy. And Anarchy is the rule of the strongest.
Ok so the fact that those 3 persons stole the business through corruption and manipulation is no problem?
That is problem, but most businesses now do contracts with the state, and that is how their corruption exists.
1)Politician gets in office
2)His friend opens up a business
3)Politician gives contracts to his friend from public money
4)They split the profits
This is what happens everywhere in the world, and these businesses would close down immediately once they dont get more funding.
How to stop politicians from becoming corrupt? You cant. You should just not feed them.
The less public money they have, the less they can steal, as simple as that.
Again you're confusing socialism with communism... But I suppose it was predictable... Yeah it's exactly what would happen... Government burocrats everywhere... Cause the state couldn't at all just own it and regulate it while letting it be managed by competent people exactly like a normal company? If the state owns it it can only finish with red everywhere and burocrats!
Socialism will become communism:
"The goal of socialism is communism." -- Vladimir Lenin ☭☭
I know more about leftist ideas than you do, that is why I oppose it.
Lenine is 70 years old philosophy. We saw. We learnt. We know now that communism brings nothing. We can restrain socialism to... Well socialism.
Perfect if you're ok with the wealth concentration and the rising poverty of your country then do nothing!
No I am not, and I do my best to help.
I support bitcoin, which would be the moral way of 'redistributing' wealth, by not being exposed to inflation.
Inflation is the biggest wealth redistributor and its stealing from your pocket and giving it to banks.
Dumb as hell. Dumbest idea I ever heard.
What you're saying is actually not only a nonsense but also incredibly dangerous.
Imagine we stop any kind of regulation tomorrow. You know what would happen?
I'll tell you: Big companies would CRASH DOWN the smaller ones. Nothing else.
Yes unfortunately you are right here, the regulations are so embedded in the system that its hard to remove them.
But it can still be removed slowly, and phased out into market self-regulation.
It cannot happen over night, but over a few years its doable.
It's not really regulation. Simply power of an elite over the people.
But anyway it's too late. Leaving the market alone would simply crush us all. It would be a complete suicide, it would never "slowly remove it". Your idea was a good one 100 years ago, and maybe we should have done it. But now it's too late.
What you all seem to forget is about a simple fact.
In a "free of tax" country, there is no police, no health care and no education. At least for the majority.
You're actually all fighting for a world in which only 10% of the population would get an education, the 90% being too poor to afford it... And you find socialism disgusting?
In a "free of tax" country, there is no police, no health care and no education. At least for the majority.
You're actually all fighting for a world in which only 10% of the population would get an education, the 90% being too poor to afford it... And you find socialism disgusting?
Remove government interference from the economy, and the economy slowly calms down, (people become equal even by socialist standards), like a lake's surface in a sunny day.
People become equal?
Ok dude, you know what, explain me how someone coming from a poor family with his two parents working but barely earning enough to eat can become equal with high class kids. Explain me how a low income kid can succeed with education costing 200k$.
Just explain me that and I'll walk with you and get rid of socialism. Period.
AND HOW DO YOU DO THAT WITHOUT THE STATE INTERFERING???
How do you ensure that companies keep the small sizes???
For god I fucking agree on a small size capitalism! That would be a good thing too and maybe even better than socialism! But HOW DO YOU CONTROL THAT?
By shrinking the state, the limited government concept of libertarianism, you seriously need to read up on that.
Companies can hardly expand if you have balance of power, and balance of power you achieve by frictionless competition, and no interference in the system.
The market is a delicate system, and if you interfere in the market with the might of the state, it is like dropping a meteor in a lake and complaining about the water not being calm.
Remove government interference from the economy, and the economy slowly calms down, (people become equal even by socialist standards), like a lake's surface in a sunny day.
Dumb as hell. Dumbest idea I ever heard.
What you're saying is actually not only a nonsense but also incredibly dangerous.
Imagine we stop any kind of regulation tomorrow. You know what would happen?
I'll tell you: Big companies would CRASH DOWN the smaller ones. Nothing else.
WTF are you talking about it's already a free market!
It's not a fucking free market, damnit socialists are very illiterate, almost every socialist I argued with cant comprehend the difference between a free market and a government regulated economy.
When you have 10,000 pages of regulation its not a free market, got it?
What are you talking about? What would be the steal in taking a private company owned by 3 persons and give it back to the people?
Because it's not theirs. Why dont you give all your bitcoins back to the 'people'?
Whaou that's really an amazing reasonning. Please explain me how we could lose money with Highways? --'
Those are small things, I`m talking about factories and businesses.
How are you going to micromanage an economy by the government when that business was run by competent people before?
You hire ☭☭comrade commissars☭☭ to manage the ☭☭people's factory☭☭? Fuck that, it has already been proven that that system fails.
More corrupt government bureocracts... nice... what can i say.
Wanting to stop corruption and wealth concentration... Yeah truly a crime...
Yes by stealing and looting, that is a crime actually, but nobody cares when it's on the behalf of the 'people' right?
So I`m allowed to win 1 million $ on the lottery, but if I win 2, I have to share it with the 'people'?
Wait a fucking second, I already do that, its called income tax, and its disgusting.
Perfect if you're ok with the wealth concentration and the rising poverty of your country then do nothing!
I think there is a problem here. Most of you think that it's not good to see the state controlling things. I'm ok with that.
But if the state isn't in control, how do you ensure that the companies won't take the control?
That's exactly what's currently happening in our world.
Look at the multinational corporations! Look at food industry, Google, Apple...
Yeah freedom is better, but I'd rather see my freedom reduces by the government than by the companies!
But if the state isn't in control, how do you ensure that the companies won't take the control?
That's exactly what's currently happening in our world.
Look at the multinational corporations! Look at food industry, Google, Apple...
Yeah freedom is better, but I'd rather see my freedom reduces by the government than by the companies!
It's incredible, truly amazing how Americans have been totally brainwashed by capitalism.
Capitalists did indeed an AMAZING job here.
People are actually defending them... And with incredible violence and agressivity. They don't even understand how they've become slaves.
Here is a good article explaining why taxes are important:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/03/its-not-just-you-americans-are-actually-still-getting-poorer/
I'm sorry but there is nothing to answer to people comparing socialism and Athila... You'r doomed I'm really sorry for you.
Capitalists did indeed an AMAZING job here.
People are actually defending them... And with incredible violence and agressivity. They don't even understand how they've become slaves.
Here is a good article explaining why taxes are important:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/03/its-not-just-you-americans-are-actually-still-getting-poorer/
I'm sorry but there is nothing to answer to people comparing socialism and Athila... You'r doomed I'm really sorry for you.
I`m not american and i dont like socialism.
What is going on over there is not capitalism it has been dominated by huge corporations for hundreds of year now.
Capitalism can only be small and medium sized, not giant corps running it.
I`m sorry I have plenty of posts here debunking socialist economy, start reading here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5373.2360
I`ve posted there enough, and made socialists cry because their logic was completely debunked.
AND HOW DO YOU DO THAT WITHOUT THE STATE INTERFERING???
How do you ensure that companies keep the small sizes???
For god I fucking agree on a small size capitalism! That would be a good thing too and maybe even better than socialism! But HOW DO YOU CONTROL THAT?
See, I'm not for big government either....and, what I don't like about our present form of socio-economic governing is that our laws are applied unequally. Our representatives are chosen by those with deep pockets, our media is controlled by the very rich, and the poor are too ignorant to get a step up because they either have felony convictions or can't afford to go to school. Anyway, I'd rather not have a governing body at all....give us back our guns and let's see who gets what when the smoke settles. That's all! I don't believe humankind has the empathy, the intelligence, nor the will power to do the right thing....As far as I'm concerned, we can all settle it on the yard!
Considering the amount of stupidity in the "critics" of socialism I can only agree with you...
They just keep yelling socialism is stealing and we should all get our complete freedom...
Because of course when 1% of the country has more power than 99% the 99% are still free...
It's incredible, truly amazing how Americans have been totally brainwashed by capitalism.
Capitalists did indeed an AMAZING job here.
People are actually defending them... And with incredible violence and agressivity. They don't even understand how they've become slaves.
Here is a good article explaining why taxes are important:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/03/its-not-just-you-americans-are-actually-still-getting-poorer/
I'm sorry but there is nothing to answer to people comparing socialism and Athila... You'r doomed I'm really sorry for you.
Capitalists did indeed an AMAZING job here.
People are actually defending them... And with incredible violence and agressivity. They don't even understand how they've become slaves.
Here is a good article explaining why taxes are important:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/03/its-not-just-you-americans-are-actually-still-getting-poorer/
I'm sorry but there is nothing to answer to people comparing socialism and Athila... You'r doomed I'm really sorry for you.
I`m not american and i dont like socialism.
What is going on over there is not capitalism it has been dominated by huge corporations for hundreds of year now.
Capitalism can only be small and medium sized, not giant corps running it.
I`m sorry I have plenty of posts here debunking socialist economy, start reading here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5373.2360
I`ve posted there enough, and made socialists cry because their logic was completely debunked.
Well clearly it is not and socialism is the only way to go.
I'm French, I'm from a socialist country and solidarity is extremely important here.
Here is a common example given by people saying socialism is the worst thing ever: Healthcare costs around 2 billions of debt every year to the country.
So people are saying that we shouldn't give so much. That we shouldn't help each other so much.
I'm French, I'm from a socialist country and solidarity is extremely important here.
Here is a common example given by people saying socialism is the worst thing ever: Healthcare costs around 2 billions of debt every year to the country.
So people are saying that we shouldn't give so much. That we shouldn't help each other so much.
No, what we need is the free market to drive costs down, and then it wont be that costly anyway.
Just nationalize this shit and you'll get enough money to repay the health debt, triple the employment, repay part of national debt and lower the taxes!
Yea lets just loot everything in our way, what the fuck are you a mongol invader?
You know the mongol invaders looted and burned everything in their way across all europe.
Aaa there is prosperous village... lets loot it and burn it down...
For fuck sake is there any other strategy for socialists other than stealing and looting? Is really theft and looting the only thing socialists can do? BANDITS!!!
It's the same for all sectors! What is profitable has been privatised by corrupted politician and only what costs money is left for the state! Another example? Yeah the Highways were sold to private companies! Just after they were repayed by tolls.
And then when you run out of money, you have to privatize it again because no leftist can produce anything, you can only steal so after you ran out of lootable objects your ideology is over.
The only thing killing socialism is greed. Greed and corruption.
The only greedy folks are leftist socialists who want something for nothing.Wanting to stop corruption and wealth concentration... Yeah truly a crime...