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Topic: Will Afghanistan fall into a prolonged state of war again? - page 4. (Read 752 times)

hero member
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They were willing to die trying something so insane as opposed to living their lives.
Or heavens forbid, they fight against the Taliban. If one is certain to die it would far better that it be by defending your country vs attempting a zero-chance of survival from fleeing it like that.

The Talibans promised to the people that they will not retaliate to the Afgan government bu I guess they couldnt trusf the word so they want to run as far as they could. Disturbing video really so why did the plane still tried to fly when they know there are people hanging there on the wheels?

Pakistan also open their borders for them. No country so far had offered to the refugees too.
legendary
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As for leaving painlessly... we should have offered asylum to everyone who wants it. But that would never fly (no pun intended) in any Western country, or any country really. No one wants millions of Afghanis. We want to be outraged about our foreign fuckups from a safe distance.

Yes, this is sadly the case. Some countries are better than others, though. Sweden I think are pretty good, and Germany have taken over 1 million refugees in recent years.
My own country is probably one of the worst. We had a referendum on xenophobia a few years back, and the bad guys won.

It's a sad fact that migrants (including refugees fleeing persecution) are demonised almost everywhere. Particularly in Western nations with aging populations that would benefit hugely from an influx of largely working age people.
legendary
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there hasn't been an actual war related death in something like a year.

There hasn't been an American (perhaps NATO either, not sure) death in a long time, since February 2020 IIRC. But there has been an increase of Afghan deaths (millitary and civilian) in 2021 and 4000-5000 people died in this war every year in the last decade.
legendary
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When we invaded in 2001, we were not invited, and Afghanistan was not a democracy.

Well to be fair, you were invited, just by yourselves  Grin

We shouldn't be too harsh on Biden, ending a 2 trillion dollar endeavor.

The neocons shouldn't turn into globalists just to spite him. After all, it's what they wanted. Consider the consequences of staying, prolonging an endless "war" that need not be. Of course, I use war loosely, because there hasn't been an actual war related death in something like a year.
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We were not an occupying force, we were there upon the invitation of the democratically elected government.

LOL WTF. Taliban invited the US invasion in 2001? Democratically elected?

Well, I guess they disinvited it now and "democratically elected" themselves again.

Idiotic claims like this is what needs to stop before there can be any hope of solving the never-ending wars.
When we invaded in 2001, we were not invited, and Afghanistan was not a democracy. Once we were able to remove the Taliban from having control of Afghanistan, elections were held, and the elected government asked us for help in fighting the insurgency.

The cost of remaining in Afghanistan was very low. American troops were engaged in very little actual combat. Afghanistan is not the only war zone American troops remained in after the war was won. World War 2 ended over 75 years ago, but we have 60k+ troops stations in Europe, the Korean war fighting ended via an armistice over 65 years ago, but we have 28k troops in South Korea, the USSR fell over 30 years ago, but we have 70k troops in former Soviet states.

Leaving any of the above would likely result in our enemies taking advantage of the situation, and there would be conflicts involving our allies losing wars against our enemies, just as what happened in Afghanistan.
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It's all over in the news worldwide that the Taliban is now in Kabul and has taken over. I just hope that their word will mark and will be followed to the poor citizens that have been left there that there's no violence that will happen and things will remain normal. Knowing that these words are from the terrorist, that won't give any confidence.
But I cannot think of that after watching those videos of panicking people wanting to leave the country and crowding the airport and want to go elsewhere.
legendary
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We were not an occupying force, we were there upon the invitation of the democratically elected government.

LOL WTF. Taliban invited the US invasion in 2001? Democratically elected?

Well, I guess they disinvited it now and "democratically elected" themselves again.

Idiotic claims like this is what needs to stop before there can be any hope of solving the never-ending wars.
staff
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After listening to President Biden's press conference, I believe the uprising will last for a long time. Biden stated that America will no longer send her sons and daughters to Afghanistan to die for the Afghan people, and that the Afghan government has been given all necessary tools and support to protect her citizens from Taliban militias.

This sends a strong message to other countries that rely on American soldiers; West African countries face similar terrorist threats. It is never a good idea to negotiate.
legendary
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What a terrible speech.

Yeah Biden, we get it, you want to withdraw from Afghanistan. In fact, you probably have some Trump supporters and isolationists that are with you.

Problem is how he did it. Let the Taliban take over American military grade equipment, create a humanitarian crisis by not assisting in relocation efforts, and then under estimating the speed at which the Taliban retake Afghanistan. He tried to make this about ending the war, something everyone in the world agrees with, because American's goal in foreign policy is usually invading a country, fucking it up even more, and then leaving like it a mess like nothing ever happened.
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We were not an occupying force, we were there upon the invitation of the democratically elected government.

I wonder if this is a joke
legendary
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The images from the airport at Kabul is quite disturbing, people were literally falling off a plane that just took off. Is it that bad or are people trying to take advantage of the situation and move to the Western world? I hope order is restored sooner than later

Ya, that video is insane. Did those people think they’d be able to hold onto the side of a plane and fly to America? They were willing to die trying something so insane as opposed to living their lives. This shows just how much we got their citizens to rely on us, only to have a president leave them alone and in danger. 20 years wasted in 4 days. This is what weak leadership leads to.

I think the Afghan military were severely overestimated, either they were totally
overwhelmed and knew fighting was a waste of time or if they did fight and were
captured would be brutalised.

With the military unable to defend the country  there is nothing leadership can do
against the Taliban.

After the country was liberated from the Taliban so much changed for the citizens,
women and children could get access to education for example, now those people
are very fearful of returning to a regime dating back to the dark ages, everything changes for them.

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Probably not. The Afghanistan military more or less put up no fight against the Taliban once Biden pulled American and allied troops out. The Taliban will take over the entire country in short order.

Seems the likely outcome, yes. I appreciate Biden has nearly half a century of experience, but has he really thought this through? It could quite easily become the defining action of his presidency.
It appears that Biden made the decision to abandon Afghanistan on his own. I have heard that Biden's advisors advised against the complete withdrawal of Afghanistan.
Yes, the cost of the war was astronomical, and yes a few thousand US troops died... but just abandoning a country to its fate when you decide you've had enough is not a great decision either tactically or ethically. This could become a disaster, with a sizable proportion of the population running for the border while they still can. And who will get the blame if al Qaida rise again? All fingers will point in one direction.
This is a disaster. The cost to get to where we were in the War was high, but we were at a point at which the cost to continue the war was low. We only had a few thousand troops in Afghanistan, most were not seeing actual combat, but were rather providing training and support to the Afghanistan military, and it had been about 18 months since the last US causality.

They weren't able to "fix" it in 20 years. It should be obvious by now that more soldiers and more money isn't gonna do anything positive, just increase the resentment towards occupying forces. I bet there are numerous countries in the world who would happily take the billions of dollars and put them to much better use than drones and bombs.
There are reports of the Taliban going door-to-door looking for people who worked with the Americans, and of schools being burned down. Afghanistan is going to be a safe haven for terrorist groups.

We were not an occupying force, we were there upon the invitation of the democratically elected government.

Probably not. The Afghanistan military more or less put up no fight against the Taliban once Biden pulled American and allied troops out. The Taliban will take over the entire country in short order.

Very apt. There was no motivation or willingness to fight on the side of the Afghan army.
Part of the issue was that the Afghan military relied on American air support, which was also withdrawn. The Afghan air force was unable to maintain their planes because US contractors were unable to help from Afghanistan.

The images from the airport at Kabul is quite disturbing, people were literally falling off a plane that just took off. Is it that bad or are people trying to take advantage of the situation and move to the Western world? I hope order is restored sooner than later
The Taliban are not nice people. They will likely kill those who helped Americans.
legendary
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I don't think Afghanistan can enter into another long war, according to the BBC website "88.3 billion dollars was spent" but the Afghan army of about 300k soldiers and equipped with good weapons and equipment collapsed in two weeks in front of the Taliban forces of only about 80k. Certainly, the reason is the corruption of the army and its leaders in the face of the insistence and ideology of the Taliban.
America, led by President Biden, is no longer interested in staying any longer in the country, which has cost it a lot of money and soldiers. The Taliban is very popular in Afghanistan, despite its militancy, but it is clear that the American presence is not desirable there, and the population is waiting for the first opportunity to expel the Americans and their local agents from there.
Whoever reads the lessons of history finds that the occupation of a country of any kind cannot last forever, it must end one day and the leadership return to the local population. Leaders supported by the occupation are totally undesirable for the local population.
jr. member
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Watching al jazeera news every hour. What is happening there is worse than the lost of Saigon for US. this is a dissaster and everything that is happening there is only US instabilities and interests of the rich.

a rich culture country like afghanistan was destroyed in the last 50 years by the soviets and by the americans the same way. nothing came out good from ww2 in the middle east. hopefully israel uae and iran or even will take a common stand against talibans and do something out of this situation.

i don't mind talibans in power but women need to have right, i don't care about democracy, but not totalitarism.
legendary
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Probably not. The Afghanistan military more or less put up no fight against the Taliban once Biden pulled American and allied troops out. The Taliban will take over the entire country in short order.

Seems the likely outcome, yes. I appreciate Biden has nearly half a century of experience, but has he really thought this through? It could quite easily become the defining action of his presidency.

Yes, the cost of the war was astronomical, and yes a few thousand US troops died... but just abandoning a country to its fate when you decide you've had enough is not a great decision either tactically or ethically. This could become a disaster, with a sizable proportion of the population running for the border while they still can. And who will get the blame if al Qaida rise again? All fingers will point in one direction.

His experience is sitting in the senate and doing nothing. Biden's call to fame is being Obama's VP which is great and all, just results in some shitty foreign policy.

Maybe even Hillary Clinton would have done a better job, and that is saying a lot. There hasn't been many US solider casualties in the last 1.5 years in Afghanistan, so you're only footing the bill for the financial cost of war.

Keep in mind, the Biden administration new the Taliban would take back over, just not at the rate they did. So the world new this was coming.
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They were willing to die trying something so insane as opposed to living their lives.
Or heavens forbid, they fight against the Taliban. If one is certain to die it would far better that it be by defending your country vs attempting a zero-chance of survival from fleeing it like that.
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The images from the airport at Kabul is quite disturbing, people were literally falling off a plane that just took off. Is it that bad or are people trying to take advantage of the situation and move to the Western world? I hope order is restored sooner than later

Ya, that video is insane. Did those people think they’d be able to hold onto the side of a plane and fly to America? They were willing to die trying something so insane as opposed to living their lives. This shows just how much we got their citizens to rely on us, only to have a president leave them alone and in danger. 20 years wasted in 4 days. This is what weak leadership leads to.
jr. member
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The images from the airport at Kabul is quite disturbing, people were literally falling off a plane that just took off. Is it that bad or are people trying to take advantage of the situation and move to the Western world? I hope order is restored sooner than later
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Probably not. The Afghanistan military more or less put up no fight against the Taliban once Biden pulled American and allied troops out. The Taliban will take over the entire country in short order.

Very apt. There was no motivation or willingness to fight on the side of the Afghan army.
legendary
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Yeah, I'm not disagreeing. They needed to get out, and the exit was always going to be messy... it's just that it didn't have to be quite this bad. They should never have gone into Afghanistan in the first place, but once you're in, and when you've been there for twenty years, you have a duty to the people of the country to make the exit as painless as possible... which is not what's happening. Some of the video footage is horrific.

Well, I guess they thought they did it properly, trained the military, etc. Except... when you're in a country for 20 years and don't leave your compounds and humvees and talk to locals via interpreters, you can't possibly have a clue as to what's really going on, can you? Taliban didn't appear out of nowhere to take over the whole country. It was always there, pushed a little bit away from major cities.

As for leaving painlessly... we should have offered asylum to everyone who wants it. But that would never fly (no pun intended) in any Western country, or any country really. No one wants millions of Afghanis. We want to be outraged about our foreign fuckups from a safe distance.
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