Topic: Will energy consumption be Bitcoins downfall ? (Read 1698 times)

I've invested in Bitg. The clueless should be surprised to know, as was I, that it's actually a sha256, PoS. The only one.

I don't get what the big deal is. Banks and other institutions use far more energy than Bitcoin itself. It's all an attempt to spread FUD in order to lure people away from Bitcoin. As long as the Blockchain remains decentralized, nothing else matters. At least, the energy consumed helps secure the Bitcoin network against external attacks.

PoS consumes less energy, but it's not as secure and reliable as PoW is. I guess that's why Bitcoin hasn't switched its consensus algorithm yet. It's a good thing because this keeps away centralized exchanges from getting control over the entire network. If you remember what happened with the Steem/Justin Sun dilemma, you'll see what I'm talking about. I see a future where most altcoins switch to PoS while Bitcoin remains with PoW for security, reliability, and censorship-resistance. Just my thoughts

this has absolutely no effect on the network, the cause may be more inclined to the words of Elon Musk and have an impact on the bitcoin stock market price, plus some pressure from countries that stop circulation in their own countries. Maybe that's one of the causes bitcoin's selling price drops.unless Elon Musk is able to rectify what he said some time ago

I think, that most big crypto mining companies have always been trying to use clean energy for powering their mining rigs, and that is in order to maximize their profit in the long term, and to be honest that is what every one who is planning on making a marge mining rig should be thinking about, they should try to be self sufficient in terms of energy, even though its initial investment may seem closetful but it will pay it self of, and the more people that do so the more we attract more investors toward the crypto market.

we have to face the harsh reality, this consumption of electricity is a problem, mainly because it depends on cheap electricity for miners to make more profits. let's imagine if in every country in the world the cost of electricity is very high, how will the mining business survive? and what will it be like 10 years from now if things regarding electricity consumption are not resolved? honestly I don't see this problem being resolved in the future, on the contrary I see a very bleak future, governments are very controlling and establish many rules when it comes to electricity

nope. there are many altcoin popping up, many member still join on them, but most of them will exchange to bitcoin. they sure if bitcoin is more powerful than other coin.
energy consumption never be problem to miner, because bitcoin still promise

I don't think this can be called the downfall of bitcoin because in my opinion this is only a temporary decreasing effect of negative news that has occurred for some time and the policies of several countries that do not agree with bitcoin and this I don't think will make bitcoin fall because it will rise again.
and in this case, when viewed from an environmentally friendly perspective, it is possible that large-scale miners may think again and switch to environmentally friendly, not all miners will think the same

Thanks,
Love the taste of a fresh squized PoW without FUD in the morning 

Enjoy your kool-aid.  

After making 1300+ commits on the bitcoin github repo I assume he understands crypto. Here, contact him yourself mate https://github.com/sipa or https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/pieter-wuille-2786


Wow... you really don't know how crypto works, do you ?
That double spent did happen but it's the exchange's fault for not waiting for a number of confirmations before crediting the account. If your website does not need any confirmations for placed orders I can submit my order and buy your crappy ebook "all I know about crypto" and then make a new tx with higher fee to my other address. I buy the crappy ebook and also get to keep my crypto. Who's fault is it ?


That's literally what "the genius" wrote in the article as well:


It seems you read what he said and understood what you wanted to understand.

Wow, you really drank the Bitcoiner Cult Kool-aid
if you can't see that someone was watching the rewrite and took advantage of it for a double-spend in bitcoin ,
so whoever did it, made a $10K profit.
Contact the writer of the article, and tell him he does not understand crypto,
oh by the way the writer is Vitalik Buterin , the genius behind ethereum.  

If Bitcoin Proof of Waste does nothing but create new demand, then how do you resign yourself to the fact ,
that instead of just adding Nuclear or new Coal plants, that China rather just kick out the bitcoin miners.
Watch Texas and their new problems with rolling blackouts,
because asking a single state or county to sustain a geometric increase in energy drain, is not going to happen.  

FYI:
Renewable energy sources only increase worldwide ~4% per year,
Bitcoin energy waste can increase 80% in a year.
Source:  https://markets.businessinsider.com/currencies/news/bitcoin-energy-consumption-cambridge-study-cryptocurrencies-bitcoin-mining-climate-change-2021-3-1030180485
(That is like adding a new country to the planet every year, while our energy resources are drained, Unsustainable!)
No current source of energy production can keep pace with that type of geometric growth.
Which is why the banning of bitcoin is going to get much worse.

FWIW that event you are talking about was not a double spent, it was a database issue. The older software running nodes were using a different database system that had a block limit size. The nodes running the newer software had a different database system without that limit.
It was as if the dependencies forked BTC, not a villain mastermind that performed a double spent...


And regarding BTC mining power usage... creating demand will just increase the development of cheaper alternatives which are also more and more environmental friendly. Doubt anyone will open a coal mine next to a mining hub nowadays...

great answer, security seemed to be the dominating augment for the use of BTC vs any other Alt

That is an often misspoken fallacy, PoW is not more secure than PoS,
Both are secure or insecure depending on 1 specific condition , the Majority.

Many PoW Coins have suffered 51% attacks,
Many PoS  Coins have suffered 51% attacks.

Some PoW coin have never suffered a 51% attack.
Some PoS  coin have never suffered a 51% attack.

The algorithms themselves will not secure a coin,
all that secure PoW is the majority of Pooled Hashrate,  
all that secure PoS is the majority of staking coins.

So the good will of the majority is the answer for both.

In Bitcoin Case as long as the top 4 pool operators don't collude, bitcoin is safe,
but if the top 4 pool operators ever do collude, 51% attack in bitcoin is unstoppable.
Kind of makes you wonder why people think bitcoin is so secure, when only 4 guys could totally decimate it in a day.  

In Cardano Case, they have over 2500 PoS pools, and they limit the max % one pool can dominate by code design.
So Cardano PoS has more protection from colluding mining pool operators than Bitcoin PoW.  
Because the collusion would take a much greater majority of operators than 4 like BTC.


FYI:
In Bitcoin PoW history ,
the Majority Rewrote 6 hours of bitcoin blocks in 2013, proving the majority will move the PoW chain however they deem fit.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/bitcoin-network-shaken-by-blockchain-fork-1363144448
A Doublespend has occurred on the Bitcoin PoW network.  

No Doublespends have ever occurred on the Cardano PoS network.  

From the above, PoW does not seem all that secure.  

the argument isn't so much as "where" the energy comes from, its that fact that it uses a great deal for computations.

Considering this is still an evolving market and seems that POW has the advantage of being more secure, what happens when exchanges start offering insured accounts up to x amount just like a bank.  I believe Coinbase already has some type of account guaranty against unauthorized use. Its interesting of the 10 plus accounts I had the last five years with 50 plus different crypto's I never had an unauthorized transaction.  However my Visa card has been compromised no less than five times

Just thinking of the future and how things evolve, I was told BTC could never go to POS which I thought was the way.     

   

Will energy consumption be Bitcoins downfall ?


Of course not. If it comes to it, Bitcoin folks will simply build their own power plants. Then they will make money off selling electricity as well... besides Bitcoin.

It doesn't look like we will see such thing in the future. Bitcoin mining is getting greener as time goes on. At some point, there will be no dependency on fossil fuels and electricity I believe.

That's certainly true, mate. There's basically no such thing as "environmentally-friendly". One way or another, fossil fuels are used, harming the environment as we know it. Bitcoin's energy consumption may seem high to many, but it's in fact low when compared to the amount of energy consumed by traditional financial institutions (aka banks). The pioneer cryptocurrency can go green, if miners decide to run their equipment on solar or wind energy. Saying that Bitcoin is harmful to the environment is only a failed attempt to spread FUD from mainstream media, banks, and wealthy people alike. No matter the criticism, Bitcoin will thrive because of its decentralized and censorship-resistant design. I don't think Bitcoin will switch to PoS in the future, because the consensus algorithm is not as secure as PoW is.

Nonetheless, it seems to me that PoW ain't going anywhere. High or low energy consumption won't make a difference since it's used to help secure the Blockchain. ASIC mining hardware will certainly improve over time as chips become more energy efficient than ever. As long as Bitcoin remains decentralized and censorship-resistant, nothing else matters. I'd envision a future where most altcoins will switch to PoS, while Bitcoin remains with the classic "Nakamoto Consensus". There are far more important things to focus on besides Bitcoin's energy consumption. Just my thoughts

This gasoline to electric powered isn't fully realised   so I wouldn't say it's a complete success, but I get were you going in relation to bitcoin and we need to ask ourselves critically how to do away with pollution and reducing carbon emissions .

I honestly think making bitcoin great will be based on this problem solving and no one will throw shade like Elon did which was the truth and this triggered a huge fall from ~$50k to ~$30k.  Going forward we need ecofriendly ways of mining, I just hope this doesn't disrupt the network.

The solution to the high energy consumption of bitcoin mining will more likely involve an increase in the proportion of this energy coming from renewable sources rather than a need to move to a different "more eco-friendly" alternative to bitcoin.