Will The Bitcoin Investment Trust affect the price? - page 12.

rolling

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I think I've made my poin... er, embarrassed myself enough. Wink

I think you should be embarrassed for misleading people. The trust is really just holding Bitcoin for a fee. In March 2014 they will allow investors to trade shares with each other but the size of the trust will only grow larger if they buy more Bitcoin. It's not a derivative investment. To say that they will not buy more Bitcoin once they sell all of the shares backed by the Bitcoin they already bought is wrong and by not admitting your fault, you are misleading readers of this thread, some of which might think you know what you're talking about.

Tzupy

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IMO the new major investors into bitcoin are going to try to suppress the price on the exchanges.
That's if they aren't already doing it, but I haven't seen any signs yet.
They will buy coins directly from ASIC miners and early adopters, at a negociated price.
Since the negociated price will be somehow related to the price on the exchanges, the best tactic
would be to suppress the price (pump down with minimal costs), in order to get better direct deals.

Adrian-x

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Quote from: adamstgBit on September 25, 2013, 09:44:32 PM

So let's speculate, will price be affected? by how much? and why?

No! It will have little to no effect. Would you invest only to have your investment devalued by 2% each year and further pay a 1.5% to move in and out?

What may have an effect are the people who educate themselves about Bitcoin and the EFT, the resulting XBT demand could be visible in 6-8 weeks from now.

Herp

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 02:28:20 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 02:18:05 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:09:02 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 02:07:12 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:03:24 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 01:57:27 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 01:48:11 PM

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases. but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

the presentation you linked to suggest that it won't.

So, is it an ETF or isn't it? That makes quite a bit of difference.

Sorry, but a sales presentation doesn't qualify as a prospectus.

Quote

"Modeled on the popular SPDR Gold ETF, but functionally similar to a provide fund".

Care to embarrass yourself some more?

Please embarrass me by explaining the difference between an ETF and a Trust.

An ETF, short for Exchange Trade Fund, is listed on a stock exchange. This one is a private fund. It's similar to GLD ETF in the way it operates except that it's private, not available to mom and pops.

So they allow special people to trade in and out of the trust on their own private 'exchange' for special people.

If by special people you mean wealthy investors then answer is yes.

Herp

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 02:18:05 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:09:02 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 02:07:12 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:03:24 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 01:57:27 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 01:48:11 PM

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases. but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

the presentation you linked to suggest that it won't.

So, is it an ETF or isn't it? That makes quite a bit of difference.

Sorry, but a sales presentation doesn't qualify as a prospectus.

Quote

"Modeled on the popular SPDR Gold ETF, but functionally similar to a provide fund".

Care to embarrass yourself some more?

Please embarrass me by explaining the difference between an ETF and a Trust.

An ETF, short for Exchange Trade Fund, is listed on a stock exchange. This one is a private fund. It's similar to GLD ETF in the way it operates except that it's private, not available to mom and pops.

Herp

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Activity: 294

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:09:02 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 02:07:12 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:03:24 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 01:57:27 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 01:48:11 PM

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases. but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

the presentation you linked to suggest that it won't.

So, is it an ETF or isn't it? That makes quite a bit of difference.

Sorry, but a sales presentation doesn't qualify as a prospectus.

Quote

"Modeled on the popular SPDR Gold ETF, but functionally similar to a private fund".

Care to embarrass yourself some more?

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

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Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 02:14:25 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:09:02 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 02:07:12 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:03:24 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 01:57:27 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 01:48:11 PM

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases. but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

So what you're saying is that a respectable platform like SecondMarket would mislead investors in such crude ugly fashion? You can't be serious. The trust will be audited regularly and will operate under SEC scrutiny. They will have to disclose all the bitcoin purchases in detail and show proof the bitcoins exist.

maybe. who knows.

simply point me to a reference that specifically says they will be purchasing additional BTC during the lifetime of the Trust.

rolling

hero member

Activity: 824

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:09:02 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 02:07:12 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:03:24 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 01:57:27 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 01:48:11 PM

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases. but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

the presentation you linked to suggest that it won't.

So, is it an ETF or isn't it? That makes quite a bit of difference.

Sorry, but a sales presentation doesn't qualify as a prospectus.

No it's a trust that holds bitcoin:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trust

Quote

trust noun \ˈtrəst\
: belief that someone or something is reliable, good, honest, effective, etc.

: an arrangement in which someone's property or money is legally held or managed by someone else or by an organization (such as a bank) for usually a set period of time

: an organization that results from the creation of a trust

Herp

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Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:09:02 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 02:07:12 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:03:24 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 01:57:27 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 01:48:11 PM

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases. but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

So what you're saying is that a respectable platform like SecondMarket would mislead investors in such crude ugly fashion? You can't be serious. The trust will be audited regularly and will operate under SEC scrutiny. They will have to disclose all the bitcoin purchases in detail and show proof the bitcoins exist.

StarenseN

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So it's clear now that it had no effect. Bitadam failed again isn't it ?

rolling

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Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:03:24 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 01:57:27 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 01:48:11 PM

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

You will have to re-read it then. Each share represents .1 BTC (diluted by expenses). If they want to keep selling shares, they will have to keep buying coin.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 02:07:12 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:03:24 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 01:57:27 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 01:48:11 PM

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

i know how GLD operates and you are correct that it does ongoing purchases. but just b/c SecondMarket "says" it operates like GLD doesn't mean they will.

the presentation you linked to suggests that it won't.

Herp

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 02:03:24 PM

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 01:57:27 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 01:48:11 PM

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Of course there will be ongoing purchases. That's whole point of the Trust. The Investor Information clearly states the Trust is modeled after the famous GLD ETF. Read a little about how GLD operates. It's all there.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 01:57:27 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 01:48:11 PM

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

based on that it looks to me like Chodpaba is correct in assuming there will not be an ongoing purchase of BTC.

Herp

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 01:48:11 PM

where the hell is the prospectus?

You can read the investor presentation here: http://www.bitcointrust.co/

Herp

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Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: rolling on September 26, 2013, 01:19:00 PM

Quote

Initially, each BIT share will represent 0.1 bitcoins, but the trust will not generate any income and will regularly sell/distribute bitcoins to pay for on-going expenses, so the amount of bitcoin represented by each share will gradually decline over time.

Thank you captain Obvious. The trust has a maintenance fee it has to cover. So what's your point?

The trust will keep buying bitcoin and selling new shares along the way. The 17,800 bitcoins they currently have will sell like hotcakes in no time and they'll have to buy more Bitcoins to meet shareholder demand. Trust uses same model as the famous GLD ETF http://www.spdrgoldshares.com/.

cypherdoc

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where the hell is the prospectus?

Ares

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: rolling on September 26, 2013, 01:19:00 PM

Quote

Initially, each BIT share will represent 0.1 bitcoins, but the trust will not generate any income and will regularly sell/distribute bitcoins to pay for on-going expenses, so the amount of bitcoin represented by each share will gradually decline over time.

It says it will do that only to cover ongoing expenses, not to make room for new investors. If more than 2mil wants in, they will have to buy more, which you said they wouldn't.

If I'm wrong, by all means fill me in.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 01:05:47 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Herp on September 26, 2013, 01:00:46 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 26, 2013, 12:27:18 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

The price development story here is not the effect that purchasing for this fund will have, but the opening of more funds like this and other derivative instruments. The affect on price will happen on a much longer timeline than many of you are thinking.

perhaps.

but this announcement really should be looked at as the 2nd fund to announce this strategy next to Winklevii.

it's possible that "speculation" could result in a sooner ramp than you think. especially since we've had this nice long consolidation period of 5-6 months now.

charts are looking primed.

Chance Bitcoin price will skyrocket is very high and it's all because the reputation SecondMarket has and it's client base of rich customers.

Reuter's Felix Salmon is no a friend of Bitcoin. He mocked Bitcoin from day one, however, he makes some interesting points which give clear evidence on why SecondMarket will attract lots of cash for this Bitcoin trust.

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2013/09/26/the-bitcoin-bug-bites-secondmarket/

Quote

The problem is that SecondMarket isn’t just a service for issuers and investors. It has also, of late, become a lead-generation engine — or, to put it another way, a mechanism for selling schmucks to wolves. SecondMarket has contact details for a very large number of accredited investors, many of whom trust the company and the reputational capital it has built up over the years. If you send enough of those investors investment pitches for diamond funds, or art funds, or space-based vaporware, the sillier among them will bite. And, eventually, regret doing so. SecondMarket’s investor list is a valuable thing, but the company isn’t behaving in the manner that you’d expect of an owner of something precious and valuable. Instead, it seems to be happy renting its list out to just about anybody.

Attracting buyers for the trust != attracting buyers of Bitcoin.

Firewall works both ways.

this is true but the same could be said of GLD and SLV both of which helped ignite/perpetuate the gold/silver bull.

How long did that take?

about 9 months:

rampantparanoia

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Topic: Will The Bitcoin Investment Trust affect the price? - page 12. (Read 16830 times)