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Topic: Will The Bitcoin Investment Trust affect the price? - page 15. (Read 16877 times)

sr. member
Activity: 353
Merit: 250
is it possible that this fund was the whale that drove price up in july/august ?

This is exactly, what I was thinking as well.

Overall I'm unsure if this will get the market to move again.. been very quiet lately, but we all know that things can change in a heartbeat in btc-world
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 2106
do i understand this correctly: the trust already has purchased those coins and now some deep pockets can invest into bitoin? if they sell the shares quick, they might buy more bitcoins ?

is it possible that this fund was the whale that drove price up in july/august ?

if so, then it will not affect price short term.

if they have to still buy the coins it will push the price to +150 $ gox.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1006
Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.
It's may be the  catalyst, I think 50/50 chances of this news affecting the price. Depends on how many and what kind (popular investor Names?) of investors purchase BITs.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
I'll be surprised if this trust has any affect at all. Unlike an ETF, you have to be accredited to invest. Second Market isn't a huge company and they don't have a huge investor base.

I do not think this Investment Trust will have much bearing at all on the market or market prices. In fact, I'm pretty damn sure of it.

At best, its just one more tiny step forward in building a foundation and reputation for bitcoin.
msc
sr. member
Activity: 284
Merit: 250
Then they will learn super quick how MASSIVELY convenient it will be for someone at this trust to lose or steal the private key to all those coins.
Not really.  When you steal Bitcoins from someone, nothing happens.  But when you steal assets from a publicly traded trust, you go to jail.  All they need is someone who's proficient enough to safeguard the keys.  If they lose money to a hacker, it won't just be "oops".  It'll be a monumental blunder.

This is the first step toward moving Bitcoin out of its infancy and getting it widely accepted.  It won't replace the banking industry; the industry is too big and important.  But it'll mesh with it, and eventually might help promote a cashless society.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1006
First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold
Note that this trust will almost assuredly be limited to accredited investors, which means those who make at least $250K a year or have a net worth over $1 million dollars.

Luckily, people with that much money are probably smart enough not to pay someone else to make transactions with bitcoins with NO ADDED VALUE.

As such, my guess is that the AUM for this trust will remain pedestrian and the price implications will only have to do with public sentiment and overreactions.
(bold added)
There is plenty of added value.


How are they offering extra value to their investors? "The ease of investing in Bitcoin without worrying about..." is like saying "pay me because you are too stupid to do this on your own." They are essentially trying to make money on Bitcoin being too mystical for investors to touch on their own without a jungle guide (to use Michael Lewis' terminology).

Did you even read my post?

How about not having to send their personal information to offshore companies? How about not having to worry about the integrity of those offshore companies? Also it's not about them being too stupid, it's about them not having to spend time learning about wallets and all the security needed to protect them. This is a MASSIVE convenience to them, and offers a lot more safety to their identity and safety to their coins. There is a lot of value in those, especially when it comes to investors of that caliber.
Then they will learn super quick how MASSIVELY convenient it will be for someone at this trust to lose or steal the private key to all those coins.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1006
First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold
They don't cost anything to handle or store.

says the guy that stores his bitcoin on someone elses web server.

even if I were to put them in blockchain.info wallet or some other site instead of just in a cold wallet address how is that costing me?
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
The main reason for above draw should be noted as the fact that so many nested quotes give me a headache.  Tongue

And I agreed simply to save you embarassment
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
The main reason for above draw should be noted as the fact that so many nested quotes give me a headache.  Tongue
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Note that this trust will almost assuredly be limited to accredited investors, which means those who make at least $250K a year or have a net worth over $1 million dollars.

Luckily, people with that much money are probably smart enough not to pay someone else to make transactions with bitcoins with NO ADDED VALUE.

As such, my guess is that the AUM for this trust will remain pedestrian and the price implications will only have to do with public sentiment and overreactions.
(bold added)
There is plenty of added value.


How are they offering extra value to their investors? "The ease of investing in Bitcoin without worrying about..." is like saying "pay me because you are too stupid to do this on your own." They are essentially trying to make money on Bitcoin being too mystical for investors to touch on their own without a jungle guide (to use Michael Lewis' terminology).

Did you even read my post?

How about not having to send their personal information to offshore companies? How about not having to worry about the integrity of those offshore companies? Also it's not about them being too stupid, it's about them not having to spend time learning about wallets and all the security needed to protect them. This is a MASSIVE convenience to them, and offers a lot more safety to their identity and safety to their coins. There is a lot of value in those, especially when it comes to investors of that caliber.

The fact that they won't have liquidity in one of the most volatile currency market should make any accredited investor explore ways of doing this more cheaply for themselves.

I work directly with accredited investors every day and would not suggest that they inquire on this trust. They are smart, self-motivated learners that have become wealthy by not throwing money to intermediaries.

If you work everyday with accredited investors than you should have a very strong understanding of how important protecting their identity is. This alone provides a massive amount of value to what SecondMarket is doing. No one is saying that owning bitcoins directly doesn't come with benefits, but going through SecondMarket also has unique benefits that add value, particularly for people with high net worth or those who aren't very technically adept and/or feel safer going through SM than trying to protect their Bitcoins on their own.

I think we can agree to disagree. My opinion is that people mistake millionaires for sitting on their butts and too lazy to do actual work, but the people that I work with (at least) do not fall under that category.

[In a Monty Python voice] "a'ight. We'll call it a draw."

/end argument
And my opinion is that the value of not having to disclose personal information to offshore "shady" companies will outweigh the benefits for direct ownership for a lot of wealthy investors.

I suppose a draw seems a fitting end.


full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Note that this trust will almost assuredly be limited to accredited investors, which means those who make at least $250K a year or have a net worth over $1 million dollars.

Luckily, people with that much money are probably smart enough not to pay someone else to make transactions with bitcoins with NO ADDED VALUE.

As such, my guess is that the AUM for this trust will remain pedestrian and the price implications will only have to do with public sentiment and overreactions.
(bold added)
There is plenty of added value.


How are they offering extra value to their investors? "The ease of investing in Bitcoin without worrying about..." is like saying "pay me because you are too stupid to do this on your own." They are essentially trying to make money on Bitcoin being too mystical for investors to touch on their own without a jungle guide (to use Michael Lewis' terminology).

Did you even read my post?

How about not having to send their personal information to offshore companies? How about not having to worry about the integrity of those offshore companies? Also it's not about them being too stupid, it's about them not having to spend time learning about wallets and all the security needed to protect them. This is a MASSIVE convenience to them, and offers a lot more safety to their identity and safety to their coins. There is a lot of value in those, especially when it comes to investors of that caliber.

The fact that they won't have liquidity in one of the most volatile currency market should make any accredited investor explore ways of doing this more cheaply for themselves.

I work directly with accredited investors every day and would not suggest that they inquire on this trust. They are smart, self-motivated learners that have become wealthy by not throwing money to intermediaries.

If you work everyday with accredited investors than you should have a very strong understanding of how important protecting their identity is. This alone provides a massive amount of value to what SecondMarket is doing. No one is saying that owning bitcoins directly doesn't come with benefits, but going through SecondMarket also has unique benefits that add value, particularly for people with high net worth or those who aren't very technically adept and/or feel safer going through SM than trying to protect their Bitcoins on their own.

I think we can agree to disagree. My opinion is that people mistake millionaires for sitting on their butts and too lazy to do actual work, but the people that I work with (at least) do not fall under that category.

[In a Monty Python voice] "a'ight. We'll call it a draw."

/end argument
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Note that this trust will almost assuredly be limited to accredited investors, which means those who make at least $250K a year or have a net worth over $1 million dollars.

Luckily, people with that much money are probably smart enough not to pay someone else to make transactions with bitcoins with NO ADDED VALUE.

As such, my guess is that the AUM for this trust will remain pedestrian and the price implications will only have to do with public sentiment and overreactions.
(bold added)
There is plenty of added value.


How are they offering extra value to their investors? "The ease of investing in Bitcoin without worrying about..." is like saying "pay me because you are too stupid to do this on your own." They are essentially trying to make money on Bitcoin being too mystical for investors to touch on their own without a jungle guide (to use Michael Lewis' terminology).

Did you even read my post?

How about not having to send their personal information to offshore companies? How about not having to worry about the integrity of those offshore companies? Also it's not about them being too stupid, it's about them not having to spend time learning about wallets and all the security needed to protect them. This is a MASSIVE convenience to them, and offers a lot more safety to their identity and safety to their coins. There is a lot of value in those, especially when it comes to investors of that caliber.

The fact that they won't have liquidity in one of the most volatile currency market should make any accredited investor explore ways of doing this more cheaply for themselves.

I work directly with accredited investors every day and would not suggest that they inquire on this trust. They are smart, self-motivated learners that have become wealthy by not throwing money to intermediaries.

If you work everyday with accredited investors than you should have a very strong understanding of how important protecting their identity is. This alone provides a massive amount of value to what SecondMarket is doing. No one is saying that owning bitcoins directly doesn't come with benefits, but going through SecondMarket also has unique benefits that add value, particularly for people with high net worth or those who aren't very technically adept and/or feel safer going through SM than trying to protect their Bitcoins on their own.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Note that this trust will almost assuredly be limited to accredited investors, which means those who make at least $250K a year or have a net worth over $1 million dollars.

Luckily, people with that much money are probably smart enough not to pay someone else to make transactions with bitcoins with NO ADDED VALUE.

As such, my guess is that the AUM for this trust will remain pedestrian and the price implications will only have to do with public sentiment and overreactions.
(bold added)
There is plenty of added value.


How are they offering extra value to their investors? "The ease of investing in Bitcoin without worrying about..." is like saying "pay me because you are too stupid to do this on your own." They are essentially trying to make money on Bitcoin being too mystical for investors to touch on their own without a jungle guide (to use Michael Lewis' terminology).

Did you even read my post?

How about not having to send their personal information to offshore companies? How about not having to worry about the integrity of those offshore companies? Also it's not about them being too stupid, it's about them not having to spend time learning about wallets and all the security needed to protect them. This is a MASSIVE convenience to them, and offers a lot more safety to their identity and safety to their coins. There is a lot of value in those, especially when it comes to investors of that caliber.

The fact that they won't have liquidity in one of the most volatile currency market should make any accredited investor explore ways of doing this more cheaply for themselves.

I work directly with accredited investors every day and would not suggest that they inquire on this trust. They are smart, self-motivated learners that have become wealthy by not throwing money to intermediaries.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Note that this trust will almost assuredly be limited to accredited investors, which means those who make at least $250K a year or have a net worth over $1 million dollars.

Luckily, people with that much money are probably smart enough not to pay someone else to make transactions with bitcoins with NO ADDED VALUE.

As such, my guess is that the AUM for this trust will remain pedestrian and the price implications will only have to do with public sentiment and overreactions.
(bold added)
There is plenty of added value.


How are they offering extra value to their investors? "The ease of investing in Bitcoin without worrying about..." is like saying "pay me because you are too stupid to do this on your own." They are essentially trying to make money on Bitcoin being too mystical for investors to touch on their own without a jungle guide (to use Michael Lewis' terminology).

So its like how AOL users used AOL before figuring out the Internet isn't AOL?

Not really, but bonus points for a clever analogy.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Note that this trust will almost assuredly be limited to accredited investors, which means those who make at least $250K a year or have a net worth over $1 million dollars.

Luckily, people with that much money are probably smart enough not to pay someone else to make transactions with bitcoins with NO ADDED VALUE.

As such, my guess is that the AUM for this trust will remain pedestrian and the price implications will only have to do with public sentiment and overreactions.
(bold added)
There is plenty of added value.


How are they offering extra value to their investors? "The ease of investing in Bitcoin without worrying about..." is like saying "pay me because you are too stupid to do this on your own." They are essentially trying to make money on Bitcoin being too mystical for investors to touch on their own without a jungle guide (to use Michael Lewis' terminology).

Did you even read my post?

How about not having to send their personal information to offshore companies? How about not having to worry about the integrity of those offshore companies? Also it's not about them being too stupid, it's about them not having to spend time learning about wallets and all the security needed to protect them. This is a MASSIVE convenience to them, and offers a lot more safety to their identity and safety to their coins. There is a lot of value in those, especially when it comes to investors of that caliber.
hero member
Activity: 811
Merit: 1000
Web Developer
Note that this trust will almost assuredly be limited to accredited investors, which means those who make at least $250K a year or have a net worth over $1 million dollars.

Luckily, people with that much money are probably smart enough not to pay someone else to make transactions with bitcoins with NO ADDED VALUE.

As such, my guess is that the AUM for this trust will remain pedestrian and the price implications will only have to do with public sentiment and overreactions.
(bold added)
There is plenty of added value.


How are they offering extra value to their investors? "The ease of investing in Bitcoin without worrying about..." is like saying "pay me because you are too stupid to do this on your own." They are essentially trying to make money on Bitcoin being too mystical for investors to touch on their own without a jungle guide (to use Michael Lewis' terminology).

So its like how AOL users used AOL before figuring out the Internet isn't AOL?
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Note that this trust will almost assuredly be limited to accredited investors, which means those who make at least $250K a year or have a net worth over $1 million dollars.

Luckily, people with that much money are probably smart enough not to pay someone else to make transactions with bitcoins with NO ADDED VALUE.

As such, my guess is that the AUM for this trust will remain pedestrian and the price implications will only have to do with public sentiment and overreactions.
(bold added)
There is plenty of added value.


How are they offering extra value to their investors? "The ease of investing in Bitcoin without worrying about..." is like saying "pay me because you are too stupid to do this on your own." They are essentially trying to make money on Bitcoin being too mystical for investors to touch on their own without a jungle guide (to use Michael Lewis' terminology).
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Note that this trust will almost assuredly be limited to accredited investors, which means those who make at least $250K a year or have a net worth over $1 million dollars.

Luckily, people with that much money are probably smart enough not to pay someone else to make transactions with bitcoins with NO ADDED VALUE.

As such, my guess is that the AUM for this trust will remain pedestrian and the price implications will only have to do with public sentiment and overreactions.
(bold added)
There is plenty of added value.

Quote
Until now, getting anywhere near a bitcoin was a tricky proposition, primarily because the two biggest bitcoin exchanges are outside the U.S. and unregulated.

"We incubated the BIT to alleviate the problems of direct bitcoin ownership, including having to wire money to newly established and potentially unregulated entities around the world," says SecondMarket Founder and CEO Barry Silbert.

Also the safety of not having to give all your personal info to these offshore exchanges, and also the convenience of not having to figure out and deal with Bitcoin wallets.

to quote Eric Vorhees:
Quote
YES!!!!!!!!! This is a long-awaited game changer. Why? Because institutional and wealthy investors who are interested in a Bitcoin position don't have to worry about wallets, storage, gox verification, hax0rs, etc. This is a professional, Wall St. level asset bringing Bitcoin exposure to the "real" financial world (and you know why I use quotes).

Everyone knew this would happen eventually. SecondMarket seized the opportunity and is an ideal firm to manage it.

For those who don't know, SecondMarket is an equity market for pre-IPO companies. Facebook and Twitter shares traded here before their IPO's. This will be big news in the morning.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Note that this trust will almost assuredly be limited to accredited investors, which means those who make at least $250K a year or have a net worth over $1 million dollars.

Luckily, people with that much money are probably smart enough not to pay someone else to make transactions with bitcoins with NO ADDED VALUE.

As such, my guess is that the AUM for this trust will remain pedestrian and the price implications will only have to do with public sentiment and overreactions.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Quote
LIQUIDITY:   To commence no later than March 2014.

does that mean if you buy into this trust you won't be able to cash out till march 2014?
Yes, probably.  First they have to find buyers for all of their shares.  Then they can offer public trading.

Quote
will price be affected?
Not right away.  They're only selling $2.25 million of Bitcoin, or 0.15% of Bitcoin's market cap, if I'm right.  Still, this is excellent news.  And since it's an open-ended trust, it won't always be limited to the initial $2.25 million.


Well they said the minimum one can invest is 25k, and essentially only millionaires have the credentials to be involved with SecondMarket and so I suspect that 2.25 million will be gobbled up rather quickly. Should they be interested enough, I'm sure there are plenty of investors who would eat the whole thing in one bite
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