What account type are you using, EI's Flex IRA?
Yes.If you or anyone else is interested then let me know and I will connect you to the folks I'm working with. Perhaps we should suggest a referral program.
Topic: Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust on Bloomberg (Read 10995 times)
If you or anyone else is interested then let me know and I will connect you to the folks I'm working with. Perhaps we should suggest a referral program.
what are the implications of this
Not important, except for the publicity it brings.
Now I have found Equity Institutional is willing to be my custodian to hold shares of a Unit Investment Trust (UIT), specifically the Bitcoin Investment Trust offered by SecondMarket.
What account type are you using, EI's Flex IRA?
Why not just buy a casasuis gold bitcoin. Gold coins are allowed in an IRA. You'd rather buy an ETF then actual bitcoins. Makes no sense.
Gold coins are allowed in an IRA *but* they must be held by a custodian -- you are not allowed to store the coins yourself. This is a common misconception.I would *much* rather just buy Bitcoins but I can't with my IRA -- btw, I have purchased Bitcoins with non-retirement funds which is great but I want more. The next best thing would be to find a custodian that would hold Bitcoins for me but I tried but failed to find one. I even started to explore creating a trust company but I soon discovered that's real work and very costly. Now I have found Equity Institutional is willing to be my custodian to hold shares of a Unit Investment Trust (UIT), specifically the Bitcoin Investment Trust offered by SecondMarket. Granted it is not the same as owning Bitcoins myself but it'll have to do for now. Perhaps one day another custodian will come along and offer to hold Bitcoins for my IRA but until then I don't have that option.
If/when the/an ETF is finally stood then I will evaluate that approach as compared to the SecondMarket UIT.
Don't see why not listing the public address would make you paranoid that they didn't even hold the BTC or something. They aren't concerned about you getting the private key, but maybe they don't want to disclose, when they don't have to, where it's located, how it's distributed (one on address, or many), how much others have invested, and the paper trail of where that BTC came from and moved. Seems reasonable to me really..
Reasonable guesses; it will be interesting to get SecondMarket's response.Would there be a way for someone to "sign" a message proving they have control of a certain amount of Bitcoins *without* revealing any public addresses? Is this akin to what I've heard discussed called "Proof of Stake"?
Why not just buy a casasuis gold bitcoin. Gold coins are allowed in an IRA. You'd rather buy an ETF then actual bitcoins. Makes no sense.
I am technically familiar with Bitcoin yet I am also very close to becoming a SecondMarket client -- perhaps I am just rare/special. So far I haven't found a way to bring my retirement funds into Bitcoin; SecondMarket gives me that.
Don't you also need a self-directed IRA plan somewhere else? Got any potentials lined up for that?Based on the limited research I've done, I trust SecondMarket and Equity Institutional enough to plow $25K in. If they screw up then they will miss out on a tremendous opportunity to do more business with many people. Someone has to take a chance and go first/early; I'm willing and able. I will continue to report on my experiences.
there will always be bitcoins for sale. the asking price will rise until someone is willing to sell.
Im a loser lol. I live in my parents'-IN-LAW basement 
Also in thailand its so much better to rent. Rent is almost free but buying a house is pretty damn high.
Also in thailand its so much better to rent. Rent is almost free but buying a house is pretty damn high.
A crucial piece of info was missing...
I also prefer rent. Here you get about 3% return on capital, which cannot compare with bitcoin.
The only problem I see is that the price per share of an ETF is supposed to match what it's an ETF for. So if someone buys $1000 worth and BTC is $200 each, then they technically need to buy 5 more bitcoins. What if the demand is so high that not enough BTC is available for sale? Not sure you can lock an ETF, and say sorry no more can be bought. You could buy if someone is willing to sell their shares of it because then the total correlation of dollars to BTC is not changing.
Clearly Secondmarket is marketing to a different set of clients than the folks who are technically familiar with bitcoin. It's equivalent of selling shares of valuable internet domain to people who read the newspaper daily and don't even have a computer. And then not telling it's customers what those domain names are. There are people who will still buy this, just based on their trust with the the company behind the fund.
Some clients might even prefer a setup where they have no knowledge of actual public addresses that could potentially be linked back to them.
I am technically familiar with Bitcoin yet I am also very close to becoming a SecondMarket client -- perhaps I am just rare/special. So far I haven't found a way to bring my retirement funds into Bitcoin; SecondMarket gives me that.Some clients might even prefer a setup where they have no knowledge of actual public addresses that could potentially be linked back to them.
I have yet to encounter anyone else (except my son who was the one that spark my interest in the first place) I personally know that wants to enter Bitcoin at all -- I am perhaps not the most effective ambassador. Well, I've gotten a couple of very minor nibbles but nothing big.
If you don't mind the fees, Id invest if I was you. The ETF will probably be a better deal re: fees, but that isn't a guarantee and could be awhile. Assuming there is no penalty for switching from 2nd market to ETF, then you don't have much to lose, assuming you believe market will go up in next 6 months from where it is today.
I asked SecondMarket, "Will you provide the Bitcoin address or addresses where the trust holdings will reside so that I can use something like Blockchain.info to confirm balances?"
SecondMarket responded, "For security reasons, we will not be able to share the addresses. As you may have read, we have partnered with great service providers including Ernst and Young on the audit side and Sidley Austin on the legal side to oversee our storing of bitcoin."
That is a horrible answer. Bitcoin as a technology gives them the possibility to make their holdings 100% transparent and auditable at almost 0 cost and they simply choose not to for a made up security reason.SecondMarket responded, "For security reasons, we will not be able to share the addresses. As you may have read, we have partnered with great service providers including Ernst and Young on the audit side and Sidley Austin on the legal side to oversee our storing of bitcoin."
Also, do you have insurance covering the unlikely loss of the private keys?"
You were never planning on investing with them were you? Given the fees and all?
If not, it just seems like you are harassing them a bit. They are a private company and certainly have the right to hide their address and keys. You might not like it, but their investors don't care. And if this is about wondering if they are being honest, then this is nothing more than conspiracy theory. Secondmarket has a long and solid track record. They have taken flack for investing in BTC. But their core asset is their trust with their investor and client list. Doing harm that list would ruin their company.
Secondmarket is a good asset and important part of the BTC army of expansion. Just be happy about that.
+2
Don't see why not listing the public address would make you paranoid that they didn't even hold the BTC or something. They aren't concerned about you getting the private key, but maybe they don't want to disclose, when they don't have to, where it's located, how it's distributed (one on address, or many), how much others have invested, and the paper trail of where that BTC came from and moved. Seems reasonable to me really..
I am technically familiar with Bitcoin yet I am also very close to becoming a SecondMarket client -- perhaps I am just rare/special. So far I haven't found a way to bring my retirement funds into Bitcoin; SecondMarket gives me that.
Don't you also need a self-directed IRA plan somewhere else? Got any potentials lined up for that?
I asked SecondMarket, "Will you provide the Bitcoin address or addresses where the trust holdings will reside so that I can use something like Blockchain.info to confirm balances?"
SecondMarket responded, "For security reasons, we will not be able to share the addresses. As you may have read, we have partnered with great service providers including Ernst and Young on the audit side and Sidley Austin on the legal side to oversee our storing of bitcoin."
That is a horrible answer. Bitcoin as a technology gives them the possibility to make their holdings 100% transparent and auditable at almost 0 cost and they simply choose not to for a made up security reason.SecondMarket responded, "For security reasons, we will not be able to share the addresses. As you may have read, we have partnered with great service providers including Ernst and Young on the audit side and Sidley Austin on the legal side to oversee our storing of bitcoin."
Also, do you have insurance covering the unlikely loss of the private keys?"
Clearly Secondmarket is marketing to a different set of clients than the folks who are technically familiar with bitcoin. It's equivalent of selling shares of valuable internet domain to people who read the newspaper daily and don't even have a computer. And then not telling it's customers what those domain names are. There are people who will still buy this, just based on their trust with the the company behind the fund.
Some clients might even prefer a setup where they have no knowledge of actual public addresses that could potentially be linked back to them.
I am technically familiar with Bitcoin yet I am also very close to becoming a SecondMarket client -- perhaps I am just rare/special. So far I haven't found a way to bring my retirement funds into Bitcoin; SecondMarket gives me that.Some clients might even prefer a setup where they have no knowledge of actual public addresses that could potentially be linked back to them.
I have yet to encounter anyone else (except my son who was the one that spark my interest in the first place) I personally know that wants to enter Bitcoin at all -- I am perhaps not the most effective ambassador. Well, I've gotten a couple of very minor nibbles but nothing big.
You were never planning on investing with them were you? Given the fees and all?
If not, it just seems like you are harassing them a bit. They are a private company and certainly have the right to hide their address and keys. You might not like it, but their investors don't care. And if this is about wondering if they are being honest, then this is nothing more than conspiracy theory. Secondmarket has a long and solid track record. They have taken flack for investing in BTC. But their core asset is their trust with their investor and client list. Doing harm that list would ruin their company.
Secondmarket is a good asset and important part of the BTC army of expansion. Just be happy about that.
I am just inches from investing with them -- fees and all. Until the ETF is available, retirement funds can't be moved into Bitcoin short of withdrawing them and paying 10% penalty and income taxes (if not Roth) -- yuk.If not, it just seems like you are harassing them a bit. They are a private company and certainly have the right to hide their address and keys. You might not like it, but their investors don't care. And if this is about wondering if they are being honest, then this is nothing more than conspiracy theory. Secondmarket has a long and solid track record. They have taken flack for investing in BTC. But their core asset is their trust with their investor and client list. Doing harm that list would ruin their company.
Secondmarket is a good asset and important part of the BTC army of expansion. Just be happy about that.
Assuming minimum investment of $25K, that would be;
$375 1.5% initial fee
$500 2.0% annual fee which piles up the more years you're in
$? 1.5% exit fee
But, there's also the Equity Institutional fees to be considered.
If Bitcoin goes to zero or just down it will be unpleasant. If Bitcoin coins up enough then it is a win. One invests in Bitcoin to be diversified; to hedge against the falling US dollar.
renting is a wast of money. living with your parents = loser.
Why? I'm planning to rent for a long time
Yes it's expensive, but investing more than your net worth into overpriced real estate is such a bad idea ...
My real estate has already tripled in less than 15 years. In the non-bitcoin world, that's pretty hard to do.
gold did way more than triple in 15 years...
what you are looking at is fiat fail, not your house or gold magically become more valuable.
True. But you have to include what I've saved on rent...
You were never planning on investing with them were you? Given the fees and all?
If not, it just seems like you are harassing them a bit. They are a private company and certainly have the right to hide their address and keys. You might not like it, but their investors don't care. And if this is about wondering if they are being honest, then this is nothing more than conspiracy theory. Secondmarket has a long and solid track record. They have taken flack for investing in BTC. But their core asset is their trust with their investor and client list. Doing harm that list would ruin their company.
Secondmarket is a good asset and important part of the BTC army of expansion. Just be happy about that.
If not, it just seems like you are harassing them a bit. They are a private company and certainly have the right to hide their address and keys. You might not like it, but their investors don't care. And if this is about wondering if they are being honest, then this is nothing more than conspiracy theory. Secondmarket has a long and solid track record. They have taken flack for investing in BTC. But their core asset is their trust with their investor and client list. Doing harm that list would ruin their company.
Secondmarket is a good asset and important part of the BTC army of expansion. Just be happy about that.
+1
Clearly Secondmarket is marketing to a different set of clients than the folks who are technically familiar with bitcoin. It's equivalent of selling shares of valuable internet domain to people who read the newspaper daily and don't even have a computer. And then not telling it's customers what those domain names are. There are people who will still buy this, just based on their trust with the the company behind the fund.
Some clients might even prefer a setup where they have no knowledge of actual public addresses that could potentially be linked back to them.
I asked SecondMarket, "Will you provide the Bitcoin address or addresses where the trust holdings will reside so that I can use something like Blockchain.info to confirm balances?"
SecondMarket responded, "For security reasons, we will not be able to share the addresses. As you may have read, we have partnered with great service providers including Ernst and Young on the audit side and Sidley Austin on the legal side to oversee our storing of bitcoin."
That is a horrible answer. Bitcoin as a technology gives them the possibility to make their holdings 100% transparent and auditable at almost 0 cost and they simply choose not to for a made up security reason.SecondMarket responded, "For security reasons, we will not be able to share the addresses. As you may have read, we have partnered with great service providers including Ernst and Young on the audit side and Sidley Austin on the legal side to oversee our storing of bitcoin."
Also, do you have insurance covering the unlikely loss of the private keys?"
You were never planning on investing with them were you? Given the fees and all?
If not, it just seems like you are harassing them a bit. They are a private company and certainly have the right to hide their address and keys. You might not like it, but their investors don't care. And if this is about wondering if they are being honest, then this is nothing more than conspiracy theory. Secondmarket has a long and solid track record. They have taken flack for investing in BTC. But their core asset is their trust with their investor and client list. Doing harm that list would ruin their company.
Secondmarket is a good asset and important part of the BTC army of expansion. Just be happy about that.
I asked SecondMarket, "Will you provide the Bitcoin address or addresses where the trust holdings will reside so that I can use something like Blockchain.info to confirm balances?"
SecondMarket responded, "For security reasons, we will not be able to share the addresses. As you may have read, we have partnered with great service providers including Ernst and Young on the audit side and Sidley Austin on the legal side to oversee our storing of bitcoin."
That is a horrible answer. Bitcoin as a technology gives them the possibility to make their holdings 100% transparent and auditable at almost 0 cost and they simply choose not to for a made up security reason.SecondMarket responded, "For security reasons, we will not be able to share the addresses. As you may have read, we have partnered with great service providers including Ernst and Young on the audit side and Sidley Austin on the legal side to oversee our storing of bitcoin."
Also, do you have insurance covering the unlikely loss of the private keys?"
I would only invest in this if they shared the public keys for auditing purposes.
Sprott physical gold trust does this. They provide the audit reports with comex bar numbers.
Sharing a comex gold bar numbers is the same as sharing a btc public key. It allows etf owner to verify the asset exists to back the etf but does not provide physical access and the holding remains secure.
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