i'm jobless and homeless...
Homeless as in "not a home owner" and not as in "living in streets" I hope?
Topic: Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust on Bloomberg - page 3. (Read 11000 times)
i'm jobless and homeless...
Homeless as in "not a home owner" and not as in "living in streets" I hope?
My peers are too conservative to get into bitcoin in its current "wild-west" environment, but are quite excited to hear that they may soon be able to invest in bitcoin with the security of the SEC/wall street.
Sigh... So people won't invest in an asset through a mechanism with 0% fees, but are more inclined to invest in the same asset with 2%/yr fees.
And people wonder why the bankers keep winning. The bankers keep winning because the average person allows them to.
you cannot take money out of a 401k or IRA without 10% tax penalties so no it is not 0%
My peers are too conservative to get into bitcoin in its current "wild-west" environment, but are quite excited to hear that they may soon be able to invest in bitcoin with the security of the SEC/wall street.
Sigh... So people won't invest in an asset through a mechanism with 0% fees, but are more inclined to invest in the same asset with 2%/yr fees.
And people wonder why the bankers keep winning. The bankers keep winning because the average person allows them to.
Lol at trusting wall street over silicon valley.
This will be so BIG that we (the bitcoin community) need an official weekly update from an insider? or someone who knows the progress of the approval process.
My biggest concern is getting busy and distracted on life issues and missing the announcement of the ETF launch.
I am serious... this will be huge. Immediately, most of the working class, semi-retired and full retired folk that are searching for a place to put their large stash of 401k and roth money, will be buyers.
Just in my little circle of professionals, there is a very large amount of saved money just sitting in bonds and cash (guaranteed income funds) that is just looking for somewhere to go. My peers are too conservative to get into bitcoin in its current "wild-west" environment, but are quite excited to hear that they may soon be able to invest in bitcoin with the security of the SEC/wall street. Were talking about hundreds of thousands of US$ in just my little middle class circle of acquaintances. I can imagine that if this is the case in just a small percentage of the US, especially once the media does its thing with it, we will have to prepare for a large step function in the price of BTC.
If anyone learns of a method to track and keep updated with the progress of this ETF, please share. Maybe even a special email or distribution network may be in order. Just a thought.
P.S. I am not real confident that the Winklevoss website will do the task of keeping the public updated and informed. I am too suspicious that the information will be kept between "insiders" until it is too late.
Anyone know when it will go on sale?
They have filed documents, but they still require approval. Could easily take 6+ months.
this is a good thing for btc, it will not hurt btc...
id not invest in this as it is not holding btc and well if you dont hold it you dont own it. but im going to tell my grandma to get in...
i bet they sell out in hours... and thus have to refill right away.. you know the press on this will be massive...
id not invest in this as it is not holding btc and well if you dont hold it you dont own it. but im going to tell my grandma to get in...
i bet they sell out in hours... and thus have to refill right away.. you know the press on this will be massive...
Anyone know when it will go on sale?
BTW, you actually might want to invest in this even if you are a tech-saavy bitcoin holder. If you are in the US (but this applies to other countries too), your employer might match your retirement investment contributions (and there are tax advantages as well), but until the Winklevoss trust thing, you couldn't use that money on anything bitcoin related. Now you can have bitcoins in your retirement portfolio (with your employer doubling up your investment)!
prepare for a rally...
Since all the methods of "destroying" Bitcoin not only wouldn't work, but would in fact amount to torching a huge pile of money, I don't see this. What would they get out of it? Would they do it just for the pure evil of it while twirling a black mustache and cackling insanely?
If the banks try that, they're going to get royally fucked, and they know it.
The ETF will add liquidity and will allow people to invest the capital necessary to get things like migrant worker payment systems in place and hopefully a true merchant processing competitor.
It will also allow people to short bitcoin in a large way which will be really interesting. When you trade commodities there are differences between physical and financial. Many times the financial delivery exceeds the actual physical delivery capacity.
ie. If someone had short sold to me millions of barrels of oil for march delivery, I can demand physical delivery at cushing. If I do not trade out of it in the three days before expiration, I can schedule with the seller when he must deliver. This gives you spikes in the spot market sometimes but generally people can settle on the financial contract.
Now think this about this. If some smart guys said "bitcoin is BS, let's bust it" (you know kind of like Soros did to the pound) and they shorted TONS of bitcoin, how would they deliver if a large group of miners/hoarders refused to sell their stored coins. What would happen to the spot market in bitcoin? Because the great thing about ETFs (and later futures) is that people can financially sell more than the entire market size. But with bitcoin, you cannot deliver what is not there. Those are the days I look forward too, when the shorts get squeezed for the first few times because they are used to shorting other "commodities/currencies" that they can always hedge out of.
It will also allow people to short bitcoin in a large way which will be really interesting. When you trade commodities there are differences between physical and financial. Many times the financial delivery exceeds the actual physical delivery capacity.
ie. If someone had short sold to me millions of barrels of oil for march delivery, I can demand physical delivery at cushing. If I do not trade out of it in the three days before expiration, I can schedule with the seller when he must deliver. This gives you spikes in the spot market sometimes but generally people can settle on the financial contract.
Now think this about this. If some smart guys said "bitcoin is BS, let's bust it" (you know kind of like Soros did to the pound) and they shorted TONS of bitcoin, how would they deliver if a large group of miners/hoarders refused to sell their stored coins. What would happen to the spot market in bitcoin? Because the great thing about ETFs (and later futures) is that people can financially sell more than the entire market size. But with bitcoin, you cannot deliver what is not there. Those are the days I look forward too, when the shorts get squeezed for the first few times because they are used to shorting other "commodities/currencies" that they can always hedge out of.
You are right, but with the ETF it's easier to go short on Bitcoins.
And if 1% of all Bitcoins are sold on the market, then you know what's going to happen?
They only need the miners coins if they want to go short on more than 1%. But 1% can be enought to ruin the price.
There are probably a bunch of banks that have more money than everyone of us that have then easier access with the ETF's to destroy Bitcoin, if they want to...
For the education of the less informed, how would they destroy Bitcoin, step-by-step? (And what could we do to protect ourselves?)
Have you asked them if they already have the coins backing this and if yes are they willing to give you the public address for them.
most of these do not hold the underlying but use futures hedging to try and match the return (read up the bear 3x spy and such). This is why I think this could be very interesting.http://www.plus500.co.uk/Instruments/BTCUSD
The ETF will add liquidity and will allow people to invest the capital necessary to get things like migrant worker payment systems in place and hopefully a true merchant processing competitor.
It will also allow people to short bitcoin in a large way which will be really interesting. When you trade commodities there are differences between physical and financial. Many times the financial delivery exceeds the actual physical delivery capacity.
ie. If someone had short sold to me millions of barrels of oil for march delivery, I can demand physical delivery at cushing. If I do not trade out of it in the three days before expiration, I can schedule with the seller when he must deliver. This gives you spikes in the spot market sometimes but generally people can settle on the financial contract.
Now think this about this. If some smart guys said "bitcoin is BS, let's bust it" (you know kind of like Soros did to the pound) and they shorted TONS of bitcoin, how would they deliver if a large group of miners/hoarders refused to sell their stored coins. What would happen to the spot market in bitcoin? Because the great thing about ETFs (and later futures) is that people can financially sell more than the entire market size. But with bitcoin, you cannot deliver what is not there. Those are the days I look forward too, when the shorts get squeezed for the first few times because they are used to shorting other "commodities/currencies" that they can always hedge out of.
It will also allow people to short bitcoin in a large way which will be really interesting. When you trade commodities there are differences between physical and financial. Many times the financial delivery exceeds the actual physical delivery capacity.
ie. If someone had short sold to me millions of barrels of oil for march delivery, I can demand physical delivery at cushing. If I do not trade out of it in the three days before expiration, I can schedule with the seller when he must deliver. This gives you spikes in the spot market sometimes but generally people can settle on the financial contract.
Now think this about this. If some smart guys said "bitcoin is BS, let's bust it" (you know kind of like Soros did to the pound) and they shorted TONS of bitcoin, how would they deliver if a large group of miners/hoarders refused to sell their stored coins. What would happen to the spot market in bitcoin? Because the great thing about ETFs (and later futures) is that people can financially sell more than the entire market size. But with bitcoin, you cannot deliver what is not there. Those are the days I look forward too, when the shorts get squeezed for the first few times because they are used to shorting other "commodities/currencies" that they can always hedge out of.
You are right, but with the ETF it's easier to go short on Bitcoins.
And if 1% of all Bitcoins are sold on the market, then you know what's going to happen?
They only need the miners coins if they want to go short on more than 1%. But 1% can be enought to ruin the price.
There are probably a bunch of banks that have more money than everyone of us that have then easier access with the ETF's to destroy Bitcoin, if they want to...
Have you asked them if they already have the coins backing this and if yes are they willing to give you the public address for them.
most of these do not hold the underlying but use futures hedging to try and match the return (read up the bear 3x spy and such). This is why I think this could be very interesting.
Have you asked them if they already have the coins backing this and if yes are they willing to give you the public address for them.
most of these do not hold the underlying but use futures hedging to try and match the return (read up the bear 3x spy and such). This is why I think this could be very interesting.
Have you asked them if they already have the coins backing this and if yes are they willing to give you the public address for them.
most of these do not hold the underlying but use futures hedging to try and match the return (read up the bear 3x spy and such). This is why I think this could be very interesting.Have you asked them if they already have the coins backing this and if yes are they willing to give you the public address for them.
most of these do not hold the underlying but use futures hedging to try and match the return (read up the bear 3x spy and such). This is why I think this could be very interesting.
Have you asked them if they already have the coins backing this and if yes are they willing to give you the public address for them.
The ETF will add liquidity and will allow people to invest the capital necessary to get things like migrant worker payment systems in place and hopefully a true merchant processing competitor.
It will also allow people to short bitcoin in a large way which will be really interesting. When you trade commodities there are differences between physical and financial. Many times the financial delivery exceeds the actual physical delivery capacity.
ie. If someone had short sold to me millions of barrels of oil for march delivery, I can demand physical delivery at cushing. If I do not trade out of it in the three days before expiration, I can schedule with the seller when he must deliver. This gives you spikes in the spot market sometimes but generally people can settle on the financial contract.
Now think this about this. If some smart guys said "bitcoin is BS, let's bust it" (you know kind of like Soros did to the pound) and they shorted TONS of bitcoin, how would they deliver if a large group of miners/hoarders refused to sell their stored coins. What would happen to the spot market in bitcoin? Because the great thing about ETFs (and later futures) is that people can financially sell more than the entire market size. But with bitcoin, you cannot deliver what is not there. Those are the days I look forward too, when the shorts get squeezed for the first few times because they are used to shorting other "commodities/currencies" that they can always hedge out of.
It will also allow people to short bitcoin in a large way which will be really interesting. When you trade commodities there are differences between physical and financial. Many times the financial delivery exceeds the actual physical delivery capacity.
ie. If someone had short sold to me millions of barrels of oil for march delivery, I can demand physical delivery at cushing. If I do not trade out of it in the three days before expiration, I can schedule with the seller when he must deliver. This gives you spikes in the spot market sometimes but generally people can settle on the financial contract.
Now think this about this. If some smart guys said "bitcoin is BS, let's bust it" (you know kind of like Soros did to the pound) and they shorted TONS of bitcoin, how would they deliver if a large group of miners/hoarders refused to sell their stored coins. What would happen to the spot market in bitcoin? Because the great thing about ETFs (and later futures) is that people can financially sell more than the entire market size. But with bitcoin, you cannot deliver what is not there. Those are the days I look forward too, when the shorts get squeezed for the first few times because they are used to shorting other "commodities/currencies" that they can always hedge out of.
Yes this, Bitcoin is such a different asset in that it is so easy to demand 'physical' payment against the shorts.
With oil or gold you have to understand the delivery mechanisms cover fees, etc. With a bitcoin ETF you would simply provide your payment address for delivery, the barrier for participation is much lower. Most ETFs (such as GLD) function where approved liquidity providers are able to buy or sell x amount of the underlying assest into the ETF, this keeps the ETF tracking the underlying asset. With a Bitcoin ETF liquidity providers would buy or sell fixed blocks of BTC in and out.
In this situation a short squeeze is so much more likely and something typical bankers / traders could be caught by.
secondmarket is only open to rich people tho. Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust would be open to all.
what is this equityinstitutional.com
i thought secondmarket.com was going to handle the bitcoins on their own.
Plenty of folks are rich enough *if* they include their retirement funds. As an alternative, paying the penalty and taxes to withdraw retirement funds prematurely is a pretty painful way to get into Bitcoin but with the kind of potential it could very well be worth it -- one does not need to be rich enough to use this approach just committed/brave.what is this equityinstitutional.com
i thought secondmarket.com was going to handle the bitcoins on their own.
I left a voice message with the Equity Institutional person directly and an awaiting a callback. They are a trust company. They can hold things, e.g. Bitcoins, in trust for folks.
SecondMarket is apparently partnering with Equity Institutional (and others) to connect Bitcoin investors with trust companies. I'm sure SecondMarket will want a fee for making this connection but pretty quickly folks will find their own way to the trust companies.
Jump to: