Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust on Bloomberg - page 2.

wachtwoord

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Quote from: BitchicksHusband on November 04, 2013, 01:21:04 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on November 04, 2013, 07:28:09 AM

Quote from: adamstgBit on November 03, 2013, 09:04:48 PM

renting is a wast of money. living with your parents = loser.

Why? I'm planning to rent for a long time

Yes it's expensive, but investing more than your net worth into overpriced real estate is such a bad idea ...

My real estate has already tripled in less than 15 years. In the non-bitcoin world, that's pretty hard to do.

Yes, that's price. It's one of the biggest bubbles that exist. There is hardly any value there. At least that is how I see it.

David Rabahy

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Quote from: 2_Thumbs_Up on November 04, 2013, 01:26:27 PM

Quote from: David Rabahy on November 04, 2013, 01:16:01 PM

I asked SecondMarket, "Will you provide the Bitcoin address or addresses where the trust holdings will reside so that I can use something like Blockchain.info to confirm balances?"

SecondMarket responded, "For security reasons, we will not be able to share the addresses. As you may have read, we have partnered with great service providers including Ernst and Young on the audit side and Sidley Austin on the legal side to oversee our storing of bitcoin."

That is a horrible answer. Bitcoin as a technology gives them the possibility to make their holdings 100% transparent and auditable at almost 0 cost and they simply choose not to for a made up security reason.

So, I asked SecondMarket, "Would you please help me understand; how would sharing the public addresses compromise security? Obviously sharing the private key would absolutely do so.

Also, do you have insurance covering the unlikely loss of the private keys?"

gweedo

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Quote from: BitchicksHusband on November 04, 2013, 01:21:04 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on November 04, 2013, 07:28:09 AM

Quote from: adamstgBit on November 03, 2013, 09:04:48 PM

renting is a wast of money. living with your parents = loser.

Why? I'm planning to rent for a long time

Yes it's expensive, but investing more than your net worth into overpriced real estate is such a bad idea ...

My real estate has already tripled in less than 15 years. In the non-bitcoin world, that's pretty hard to do.

I am pretty sure most houses tripled in the last 15yrs. Also right now it is a seller's market so if you actually try to sell you probably will not get that amount, cause most houses are overvalued so can't go on that.

BitchicksHusband

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Activity: 378

Merit: 255

Quote from: David Rabahy on November 04, 2013, 01:16:01 PM

Quote from: David Rabahy on October 31, 2013, 12:53:52 PM

Quote from: David Rabahy on October 24, 2013, 02:58:06 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on October 24, 2013, 01:05:56 PM

secondmarket is only open to rich people tho. Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust would be open to all.

what is this equityinstitutional.com

i thought secondmarket.com was going to handle the bitcoins on their own.

Plenty of folks are rich enough *if* they include their retirement funds. As an alternative, paying the penalty and taxes to withdraw retirement funds prematurely is a pretty painful way to get into Bitcoin but with the kind of potential it could very well be worth it -- one does not need to be rich enough to use this approach just committed/brave.

I left a voice message with the Equity Institutional person directly and an awaiting a callback. They are a trust company. They can hold things, e.g. Bitcoins, in trust for folks.

SecondMarket is apparently partnering with Equity Institutional (and others) to connect Bitcoin investors with trust companies. I'm sure SecondMarket will want a fee for making this connection but pretty quickly folks will find their own way to the trust companies.

SecondMarket is sticking to their $25K (USD) minimum. They rejected my request to bring in just ~$14K (USD) at first. They also insist on documentation showing one is an Accredited Investor, i.e. net worth excluding main residence >$1M (USD). Even if I can make both hurdles do I want to pay their 1.5% front end, 2% annual and 1.5% back end fees besides the additional fees the trust company charges for their services? The SecondMarket unit investment trust (UIT), Bitcoin Investment Trust http://www.bitcointrust.co/ (with a suspicious Columbian domain), will be something less than 100% Bitcoin (obviously they will have to have some cash on hand). Finally, they indicate they will liquid by March 2014 (at that point allowing folks to get out) but how can we be sure?

I asked SecondMarket, "Will you provide the Bitcoin address or addresses where the trust holdings will reside so that I can use something like Blockchain.info to confirm balances?"

SecondMarket responded, "For security reasons, we will not be able to share the addresses. As you may have read, we have partnered with great service providers including Ernst and Young on the audit side and Sidley Austin on the legal side to oversee our storing of bitcoin."

You mean the same Ernst and Young that oversaw the Lehman Brothers fraud? (Although it appears they were not punished for this because of a lack of evidence.)

2_Thumbs_Up

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Quote from: David Rabahy on November 04, 2013, 01:16:01 PM

Quote from: David Rabahy on October 31, 2013, 12:53:52 PM

Quote from: David Rabahy on October 24, 2013, 02:58:06 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on October 24, 2013, 01:05:56 PM

secondmarket is only open to rich people tho. Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust would be open to all.

what is this equityinstitutional.com

i thought secondmarket.com was going to handle the bitcoins on their own.

Plenty of folks are rich enough *if* they include their retirement funds. As an alternative, paying the penalty and taxes to withdraw retirement funds prematurely is a pretty painful way to get into Bitcoin but with the kind of potential it could very well be worth it -- one does not need to be rich enough to use this approach just committed/brave.

I left a voice message with the Equity Institutional person directly and an awaiting a callback. They are a trust company. They can hold things, e.g. Bitcoins, in trust for folks.

SecondMarket is apparently partnering with Equity Institutional (and others) to connect Bitcoin investors with trust companies. I'm sure SecondMarket will want a fee for making this connection but pretty quickly folks will find their own way to the trust companies.

SecondMarket is sticking to their $25K (USD) minimum. They rejected my request to bring in just ~$14K (USD) at first. They also insist on documentation showing one is an Accredited Investor, i.e. net worth excluding main residence >$1M (USD). Even if I can make both hurdles do I want to pay their 1.5% front end, 2% annual and 1.5% back end fees besides the additional fees the trust company charges for their services? The SecondMarket unit investment trust (UIT), Bitcoin Investment Trust http://www.bitcointrust.co/ (with a suspicious Columbian domain), will be something less than 100% Bitcoin (obviously they will have to have some cash on hand). Finally, they indicate they will liquid by March 2014 (at that point allowing folks to get out) but how can we be sure?

I asked SecondMarket, "Will you provide the Bitcoin address or addresses where the trust holdings will reside so that I can use something like Blockchain.info to confirm balances?"

SecondMarket responded, "For security reasons, we will not be able to share the addresses. As you may have read, we have partnered with great service providers including Ernst and Young on the audit side and Sidley Austin on the legal side to oversee our storing of bitcoin."

That is a horrible answer. Bitcoin as a technology gives them the possibility to make their holdings 100% transparent and auditable at almost 0 cost and they simply choose not to for a made up security reason.

BitchicksHusband

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 255

Quote from: wachtwoord on November 04, 2013, 07:28:09 AM

Quote from: adamstgBit on November 03, 2013, 09:04:48 PM

renting is a wast of money. living with your parents = loser.

Why? I'm planning to rent for a long time

Yes it's expensive, but investing more than your net worth into overpriced real estate is such a bad idea ...

My real estate has already tripled in less than 15 years. In the non-bitcoin world, that's pretty hard to do.

David Rabahy

hero member

Activity: 709

Merit: 503

Quote from: David Rabahy on October 31, 2013, 12:53:52 PM

Quote from: David Rabahy on October 24, 2013, 02:58:06 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on October 24, 2013, 01:05:56 PM

secondmarket is only open to rich people tho. Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust would be open to all.

what is this equityinstitutional.com

i thought secondmarket.com was going to handle the bitcoins on their own.

Plenty of folks are rich enough *if* they include their retirement funds. As an alternative, paying the penalty and taxes to withdraw retirement funds prematurely is a pretty painful way to get into Bitcoin but with the kind of potential it could very well be worth it -- one does not need to be rich enough to use this approach just committed/brave.

I left a voice message with the Equity Institutional person directly and an awaiting a callback. They are a trust company. They can hold things, e.g. Bitcoins, in trust for folks.

SecondMarket is apparently partnering with Equity Institutional (and others) to connect Bitcoin investors with trust companies. I'm sure SecondMarket will want a fee for making this connection but pretty quickly folks will find their own way to the trust companies.

SecondMarket is sticking to their $25K (USD) minimum. They rejected my request to bring in just ~$14K (USD) at first. They also insist on documentation showing one is an Accredited Investor, i.e. net worth excluding main residence >$1M (USD). Even if I can make both hurdles do I want to pay their 1.5% front end, 2% annual and 1.5% back end fees besides the additional fees the trust company charges for their services? The SecondMarket unit investment trust (UIT), Bitcoin Investment Trust http://www.bitcointrust.co/ (with a suspicious Columbian domain), will be something less than 100% Bitcoin (obviously they will have to have some cash on hand). Finally, they indicate they will liquid by March 2014 (at that point allowing folks to get out) but how can we be sure?

I asked SecondMarket, "Will you provide the Bitcoin address or addresses where the trust holdings will reside so that I can use something like Blockchain.info to confirm balances?"

SecondMarket responded, "For security reasons, we will not be able to share the addresses. As you may have read, we have partnered with great service providers including Ernst and Young on the audit side and Sidley Austin on the legal side to oversee our storing of bitcoin."

wachtwoord

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Activity: 2324

Merit: 1125

Quote from: adamstgBit on November 03, 2013, 09:04:48 PM

renting is a wast of money. living with your parents = loser.

Why? I'm planning to rent for a long time

Yes it's expensive, but investing more than your net worth into overpriced real estate is such a bad idea ...

User705

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Activity: 896

Merit: 1006

First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold

Quote from: adamstgBit on November 03, 2013, 09:04:48 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on November 01, 2013, 07:39:05 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on November 01, 2013, 07:34:54 PM

everyone needs a nice place to live.

You don't have to own where you live.

renting is a wast of money. living with your parents = loser.

There are no places in the "developed" world where you can truly own your real estate. People confuse a piece of paper that obligates them to pay various taxes and fees in exchange for occupancy with actual ownership. Not too mention the fact that interest payments on loans or communal homeowner fees in planned developments are basically another form of rent.

adamstgBit

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Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: wachtwoord on November 01, 2013, 07:39:05 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on November 01, 2013, 07:34:54 PM

you should become a home owner! housing really does only ever go up in value.

Price != value

no but i'm still right.

Quote from: wachtwoord on November 01, 2013, 07:39:05 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on November 01, 2013, 07:34:54 PM

everyone needs a nice place to live.

You don't have to own where you live.

renting is a wast of money. living with your parents = loser.

Quote from: wachtwoord on November 01, 2013, 07:39:05 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on November 01, 2013, 07:34:54 PM

move to canada. Cheesy

There are worse places

Canada is the best place to live, especially for bitcoiners

rocks

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Quote from: darkmule on November 02, 2013, 08:57:21 PM

Quote from: rocks on November 01, 2013, 05:51:23 PM

Quote from: EatonABooger on November 01, 2013, 01:37:52 PM

My peers are too conservative to get into bitcoin in its current "wild-west" environment, but are quite excited to hear that they may soon be able to invest in bitcoin with the security of the SEC/wall street.

Sigh... So people won't invest in an asset through a mechanism with 0% fees, but are more inclined to invest in the same asset with 2%/yr fees.

And people wonder why the bankers keep winning. The bankers keep winning because the average person allows them to.

Seriously, it's the same asset however it's packaged. We trust Bitcoin because we know how it works and we know how to keep other people from stealing it. Why is it a bad thing that your grandmother can buy it now using ways of buying things that she understands?

I agree that anything which helps people join the BTC train who otherwise would not have is a good thing. The ETF is also worthwhile for money locked in 401K type accounts.

My comment was more that it is a shame many people would rather pay 2%/year than take 1 hour to learn bitcoin and do something simple like sign up at coinbase. 2%/yr adds up and is a tremendous amount over a decade or two...

Rupture

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Hopefully some bigshot investors get on board Tongue

darkmule

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Quote from: rocks on November 01, 2013, 05:51:23 PM

Quote from: EatonABooger on November 01, 2013, 01:37:52 PM

My peers are too conservative to get into bitcoin in its current "wild-west" environment, but are quite excited to hear that they may soon be able to invest in bitcoin with the security of the SEC/wall street.

Sigh... So people won't invest in an asset through a mechanism with 0% fees, but are more inclined to invest in the same asset with 2%/yr fees.

And people wonder why the bankers keep winning. The bankers keep winning because the average person allows them to.

Seriously, it's the same asset however it's packaged. We trust Bitcoin because we know how it works and we know how to keep other people from stealing it. Why is it a bad thing that your grandmother can buy it now using ways of buying things that she understands?

This Winklevoss trust is a GOOD thing.

BitchicksHusband

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Activity: 378

Merit: 255

Quote from: Shallow on November 02, 2013, 06:01:17 PM

Has this gone live yet?

Sometime next year most likely.

Shallow

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SmartFi - EARN, LEND & TRADE

Has this gone live yet?

vpitcher07

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Merit: 250

Quote from: prophetx on November 02, 2013, 01:13:03 PM

so what's the deal is this baby getting the green light or is this going to get delayed as well due to the gubbamint shutdown? when did they all come back to work? we would need to count about 21 days from that day...

i think usually the SEC gets a few weeks to reply if they have further questions.

what are your guys thought on the short term impact? will this cause price to go up or down as more supply floods the market?

or really this is a new supply to an unmet demand, so is this trust structured in a way that they start buying more BTC as they fill up?

This will make btc skyrocket just from an adoption perspective alone.. The greater the adoption of bitcoin, the greater the price...

prophetx

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he who has the gold makes the rules

so what's the deal is this baby getting the green light or is this going to get delayed as well due to the gubbamint shutdown? when did they all come back to work? we would need to count about 21 days from that day...

i think usually the SEC gets a few weeks to reply if they have further questions.

what are your guys thought on the short term impact? will this cause price to go up or down as more supply floods the market?

or really this is a new supply to an unmet demand, so is this trust structured in a way that they start buying more BTC as they fill up?

wachtwoord

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Activity: 2324

Merit: 1125